Value may not be as important in initial attraction as some people seem to think and that sexual tension is much more important in that crucial first conversation. Value is one of the most important things after that though. When your actually engaged in longer conversations with a female the only things more important then value is humor and confidence.

_________________
Heres to our children, may their fathers be rich and their mother be beautiful

This seems to be Warped arguing that people here should just focus on how they "sell", i.e. how they make her turned on, and close.

Forgetting that it's far easier to convince a girl to suck on a lolly-pop than it is to eat a shit sandwhich.

Some guys are probably missing the whole point of social value.

Value in pickup is only a means to manipulate the social dynamics in your favor. If you look like a celeb or something in the club she's more likely to talk to you. Face the facts: Brad Pitt and a normal dude walking in the same room, Brad Pitt has more value right off the bat and wins easier attention.

Now, once you're face-to-face with a girl what matters is the sexual tension and escalation. She wants a cock, and you want a pussy. That's all you need. Be a man and LEAD, LEAD, LEAD.

Another compound I'd like to add is EMOTIONS. Once you grab her by the emotions you can pretty much do anything. That's when other schools of PU like SS shine.

Now, is value important to AROUSE her? No.
But it's important to talk to a bitchy full-of-herself model.

_________________


"Their compliance is,
'Does she grab your hand?' F*ck you! I want to grab her mind. If I can
grab her mind, she'll be grabbing whatever I want, any way I want her to." - Ross Jeffries

Fxck yeah ! I agree with the "its stupid focusing on DHV stories or Negging."

Its retarded

but value is Important I would say and to get value you assume you are valuable and go on with life with the mindset of a high valued individual and just run game

I'm not going to discuss the entire thread in here cus it differs a lot because of the various perspectives that it offers. However, In first instance I do agree with WM.

A value is only what you make of it. If you decide for you she is higher value, she is higher value. Never assume that a girl is higher value then you. Your immediatly placing her on the peddlestone of adoration. She will notice that you do this just because of that fact. Like WM said; you go out to a club both for the goal of having fun and meeting new people. There is no rising value of either of you. You aren't higher then she is, and she isn't higher than you are. You are what you believe.

It is however, important to know your own strength, your own core. Here I'm going to quote the amazing MISUNDERSTOOD concept of inner strength.
Your life is ALWAYS interesting, you just don't realize it. No matter what you do, you do it with a reason, that makes it interesting for you. So it's always interesting. I mean come on.. do you fucking have to go bunjee jumping to make your life interresting? A girl will think it's cool.. yeah and..? Writing poetry is also cool, a guy that enjoys programming is also cool.. why because it fascinates him. They don't go saying it isn't interesting, they FIND it interesting, they BELIEVE in it.

Back onto the negging & the DHV'ing.
A neg, I realise myself that I do this.. but not hardcore. I do this more in a subtle way with a classic case of humor that backbones the neg. This way it's fun and it's MY style. It works for me. Not because I think it will increase my value or decrease her value. It is because it is one of my own NATURAL techniques.

DHV'ing - WHY THE FUCK DO YOU NEED IT? I mean come on.. You're life is good as it is, else you wouldn't be here. You love doing some things, there are things you are passionate about. Why make something up that isn't there. Be true to what you do, things will work out much better that way.

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Thing is though not many people actually have value, we're not all rockstars that girls instantly will want to be with. So you have to make her value you. I agree DHV stories are a pretty lame and needy way to do this, but in a brief encounter with a stranger there arent many options available.
Like Kasabi said, if you can get her stimulated sexually just through your interaction, then your making yourself valuable to her, and theres no need for some story.... but again not everyone can do that.
You need to be able to show that you talking to her is a gift to her, and it definately looks a lot better if you can do it without telling her yourself

Being sexual with a girl is only the consequence of being certain about yourself. If you are not certain about YOUR needs and YOURSELF. Then don't even bother hitting up a girl, it will NOT work. And here I'm quoting a sentence that you may or may not have heard before;

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FREE coaching advice on Fridays from 22PM to 23PM at the MPUA chatroom.

As it turns out, Rob Judge has recently wrote an article that stresses the same point as my original one. Below is the copy pasted article from Rob Judge that was written a few weeks ago:

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The True Key To Attraction Revealed

The big buzzword in the pickup and dating advice industry is VALUE. “Demonstrate higher value” or “Be high value” are some the useless memes shoved down the throat of students at every level. Whether you’re looking to meet the girl of your dreams or become the player you always dreamed of, you’re made to believe it’s all relative to value. The idea is that if you come off as “high value” a woman will have no choice but to feel burning-hot attraction for you.

And we all believed it.

Like so much of the dating advice out there, the idea of value appealed to our “dick-logic.” Yes, “dick-logic”— an apt descriptor for “value” because, at first glance, it implies the idea value appealed to our logic-dominated male brain. However, upon further investigation, you’ll realize the real reason value is dick-logic is because you have to be a dick to believe it. When I objectively looked for real-world experiences to validate the “value = attraction” equation, I found the real equation looks more like this:

Value = Bullshit

Yup, that’s right. Sorry pickup artist drone, but today I am going to dismantle the myth of value. If attraction was really as simple as “value = attraction” then why do guys sometimes get “shot down” by low self-esteem girls? Why do guys who have very high objective value go through slumps? Why are there so many contradictions to the attraction/value corollary?

“But it’s supported by evolution!” I can hear the critics cry. “Women are evolutionary programmed to look for high value mates!” Ah, playing the “science card”—the oldest trick in the “dick-logic” book. Only a dick would make a scientific claim even though the last time he was in a bio lab was sophomore year of high school.

As someone who actually has a science degree and still works in technical science, I can tell you there’s no bigger insult than to have some pickup “guru” spout scientific claims that have absolutely no validity in research, field work, or technical literature. These guys simply read some pop evolutionary psychology book they ordered off Amazon then start making claims as if they’re seasoned Darwinists with license to propose speculative hypothesizes.

Butt-hurt yet? I know, I know, I’m attacking some the community’s most cherished, deeply-seeded beliefs. “But,” I can hear the pickup drone stammer, “If value doesn’t create attraction…then what does?”

Glad you asked! Since it’s not my style to simply tear down theories without providing a new framework, I will replace the other half of the attraction equation—but first, let’s get one thing straight. In spite of my science credentials, my theories have nothing to do with hard science. I have enough respect for the scientific community to refrain from shrouding my theories in thinly-veiled pseudo-science. Instead, my “attraction theory” is simply based on what I’ve observed after hitting on thousands of girls, watching my friends hit on thousands of girls, and hearing stories from my male and female friends about this crazy little thing called attraction.

So without further adieu, here’s my attraction formula:

Attraction = How much emotion a woman feels in your presence

At first glance, it’s not exactly revolutionary (and pretty anti-climatic). But the truth can be like that sometimes. Upon closer investigation, however, this idea is fairly earth-shattering. It busts the following myths of the dating advice industry:

1. If a girl doesn’t like you, it’s your fault for not “demonstrating enough value.” FALSE! If a girl isn’t attracted to you, it may have absolutely nothing to do with you at all; instead it might be because that girl is simply NOT open to letting herself be affected on an emotional level by a guy. She might have just had something traumatic happen. She might be in a relationship and seriously have her guard up. Or, she may just not be a fun person who knows how to cut loose. Regardless, there’s NOTHING you can do to get that girl and it’s better you recognize that and not waste your time.

2. I need to download a bunch of products to understand how to present myself as “offering value.” FALSE! While products and advice can certainly help, ultimately how to affect a woman emotionally is a byproduct of your unique personality and perspective. If you find a product that resonates with you and helps you understand how to express yourself better, awesome! Use it! But there’s no product or service that will ever substitute for how you affect people emotionally. That’s intensely personal and completely idiosyncratic.

3. If a girl doesn’t see me as “high value” then it’s impossible to get her attracted. FALSE! A girl seeing you as high value really doesn’t matter—a girl seeing you as an unpredictable, fun guy DOES matter. A girl doesn’t have to like you—or even respect you—to feel attracted to you. If you can get her emotional, you can get her attracted. Everything else is mental masturbation.

And that’s the point I intend to close with. A point I reiterate time and again is that pickup = fun = emotions = attraction. The opposite of that equation is pickup =scholarship = learning high value behavior = attraction. FALSE!

To understand attraction is to understand how to influence people emotionally, which is, 1.) not walk on eggshells, 2.) have a sense of humor, 3.) have a unique worldview, 4.) be cool, 5.) be expressive and genuine. Remember, attraction = How much emotion a woman feels in your presence. That “equation” is not a narcissistic one-way street—it involves both you and the girl.

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I started reading about Rob Judge on his blog, he's making some good point actually... I never believed in dressing in flashy colors and wearing crazy hats, you're just being a clown. I don't believe in those openers as well, they are good as examples, but don't use them. There are some good stuff and truth that I read in MM and the game, but not everything, I could imagine that if you are a newbie in dating, it could be confusing and misleading. I get attention by saying random things in the actual context, it's simple and it works. Do what fits you, be yourself.
I'll try to get his book and read Rob J since I started 60 years. There are so many references... I need to organize authors and select what is relevant or not.
I still believe that you need to be yourself, and just remember what helps you to be more confident and build sexual tension.

If a girl wants you, it doesn't matter what you do, you'll get her, because she decided it.

If you like 60yoc, you will like Rob Judge.
Good way of looking at it.

_________________
Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

This thread is like engaging in a chat about your house hold plumbing issues with your pet gerbil.

Why do people who do not understand the definition of 'value' discuss it in the first place? Of course this Judge fellow will write: value = shit. He has no idea what the hell it means. His article can be summed up as:

1. I am undereducated.
2. I can pick up chicks.
3. Here's my niche.
4. I choose to differentiate my products/services by belittling other companies through bastardizing a common, well understood word that they seem to use a lot!
5. However, everything that I do in fact is a value add to girls (I just have no idea that is in fact what I am doing)

I don't have the energy to point out every retarded comment in that blog but here's one:
Taking the accepted DEFINITION: VALUE = Benefits/Price

In the case above, the girl is still feeling shitty over her last relationship. Allowing her to be affected on an emotional level by a new guy = "THE HIGH PRICE" she must pay. So you might have benefits to offer . . . fun time, good sex, etc . . . but her perceived price for the benefits she gains is too high. Thus YOU are low value. It's the job of the pua to LOWER the COST and RAISE the BENEFIT in order to . . . yup, 'demonstrate higher value' out of this situation.

I can't believe that a wanna-be commercial pu guru would think of DHV as telling a girl about some yacht he has moored off in the French Riviera. This is like a 7 year old telling his friends he just got a new Playstation.

The following are ALL attempts at demonstration of value. However, since he doesn't have a grasp of its true meaning, he can never further this list nor can he communicate to others how to expand upon these ideas to match their individual lives.
Boring stuff . . .

So I see it as... a demonstration of higher value can over-endulged upon. But by being confident I am dhv'ing.

I think what warped was trying to say was, by simply being yourself and subconsiously knowing that you are OF high value... it comes naturally... and that one shouldn't relatively TRY to demonstrate things that are a no-thought in everyday game

for example: "im friends with the owner of this club, wow, he throws some killer parties, you never know what will happen."
^^^ not needed

"you see her beaming at me from the corner? (shb10)... my girlfriend from a few mths ago... i think she's jealous of you."
^^^ not needed

Discount the things that surround you in your environment and maintain focus on your target and the conversation the two of you are having.

by being a calm, collected individual... you ARE higher value and are not going out of your way to demonstrate personal incongruence. Right, Kasabi?

Hey Andy,

By the way, what do you think about getting on that 'brain book' and trying out the plan together as a team? I think a few other guys are trying it out. 5 weeks . . . I'm curious to see the commonalities of our experience as well as individual differences.

In regards to your thoughts on this thread:
Consciously or subconsciously, your value cannot be assessed on your own. This is an impossibility, unless of course you are courting your right hand. Your value is different to everybody who perceives you. What would you tell an ugly fat chick who tells you that she's a model? Don't laugh, this is what everybody in this thread is doing . . .

You either get it or you don't. For those who do not, try everything. Do the monkey dance, moonwalk, clown act, 007 James Bond, pick your nose/ass etc . . . Something will work with somebody. The examples you offered might work on some, might not work on others.

For those who get it, they'll know what to do . . . when. . . .

I see where you're coming from and am interested in the 'brain book.' Lets try it on for size... send me a PM when it's convenient.