Dear everyone,

I'm not sure this topic goes right in this section, but it was the closest one.

I will try to make the long story short. Sorry if this first post is going to be a little long.
Though I have always been interested into deep understanding human nature, I have only recently come in contact with this awesome community of lovers of mankind .
I got all this stuff as a challenge for my self-growth, and tried it right away.

I was impressed by the effectiveness of that consciousness: I was immediately able to meet a girl at a party, date her a few days later and that same day kiss-close her.
Everything went extremely smooth, most of all, I must admit it, because I was taking things pretty lightly.

Two days after the kiss-close, I had to go out of town for about two weeks; she came running at the port to kiss me, bring me a cake for the travel, and reading me some poetry.
I was deeply impressed.
Over the course of the next weeks we kept in touch almost every day, and things were pretty intimate and romantic.
I indeed grew attached to her, curse me!

However, just a few days before I was about to come back to town, she had planned a 10 days-trip with some friends.
During this trip too, nevertheless, even if it could be quite costly to make out-of-country calls, she kept calling me and writing emails, telling me that she wished I was with her and all that good jazz.

When she comes back, we settle for a date the next day.
At the date, she keeps the distance, and, at some point, tells me that she had kissed another guy the last day she was on the trip.

I get completely caught off guard, though I don't freak out. I keep it cool, and she's quite impressed by my reaction, as she says she had expected me to tell her to fuck off.
I didn't see any reason to do that anyway, since we had been dating for so little anyway, but I understand the point is not that she kissed another guy, but that her attention is now completely drawn to that guy (this is how I see it).

I honestly don't know what to say — what could have I? I just ask her what does she want to do, and she answers with a "I don't know, but this is not a Goodbye".
I understand that what she means is that she's going to take a step back.
Honestly, I don't want to be noone puppet or be the noone's good samaritan.
I tell her that this may be a goodbye; I say (not word-for-word): “The point is that I like you, and if you want me to take a step back now, that's not going to happen. You have to sort your feelings out and let me know. But do so soon, because I have no intention to wait for too long.” (I know waiting for too long can be devastating for me).

I wait three days and we don't get in touch at all. Then I text her and ask to meet her, she agrees and we meet.
As we speak, I ask her what has she decided and she legitimately tells me she has not decided anything, as she wishes things could just flow naturally.
In my heart I agree with her, I just hate to rationalize these kind of stuff, let alone to give the girl the power to decide over me (I guess that was a DLV from my part).

I tell her: "I agree with you, I would also like for things to flow naturally: but if I were to act naturally, I would actually be kissing you right now. I'm not doing so because I respect your feelings (AFC alarm!)”.
She looks striken though, and we spend the next two hours walking hand in hand, or arm in arm or with me holding her.
I try to kiss her twice:
once she pulls me in a hug and whispers: “wait…”
The second time, as I look her into her eyes, she cheekely scolds me saying: “Behave yourself!”, I smile and say something like: “Totally behaving myself right now.” and again we hug.

As we say goodbye to eachother she hugs me twice.

Ok, so, the point being:
I am aware she's still interested in me, and I still have opportunity. That's why I am writing: because I don't want to make any false move. I am already in check, as I see it: because I told her I like her and she knows I am accessible to her, which I kinda see it's a big turn off. I gave her the power, but I guess not all is lost.
What should my next move be? Disappear until she looks for me? Make contact with her like we did when she was indeed super-attracted, as to summon that frame? or just to let her understand how she feels good about me? I just think this pushing myself too much in is a bit detrimental.
On the other hand, guys, to be honest to you, I really thinki she's a great girl and I am having an hard time not to freak out right now.

Ok, sorry for the extremely long post, I hope I'll get some feedback from you guys.

神羅

Yeah that was quite the novel...but nonetheless...

I'd say that the best thing to do is to realize that there are, in fact, many many many other fish out in the sea. Try not to get a case of one-itis, this can be bad. Having that been said, GO FISH!

Give her some time to figure out that she wants you. Dont talk to her at all! It may or may not be hard at first, but stick with it. When she rolls back around, AND SHE WILL, it may be a month or so but distract yourself with some primo young booty.

Also, if theres any sign of crossing into the LJBF zone, you run! YOU RUN and dont look back. If this girls worth it tell her your busy and gotta go or go PUA on her ass and lovingly yet sternly your not her therapist.

You have grown out of your initial AFC exoskeleton, now you need to begin internalizing your Alphaness and everything in game so that it is absolutely ubiquitous in your personality. Your frame must be rock solid, you must be impervious to shit tests when girls throw them at you, vaginas must tremble in your wake.

What you did was what 90% of people who are new to game do. You conveyed Alphaness to catch a girl, and then you regressed into beta mode because you still have much to internalize. Beta regression is punished swiftly by women, you will die a painful death if you lose your frame when you are caught off guard.
At-least you realized your mistake, you have planted seeds for Oneitis. If you grow attached to a girl or her beauty before you are even dating her, you will eventually develop a parasitic neediness. Psychological dependency starts with thoughts like "wow, this girl must be different" or "dam I'm lucky to have her" or etc. Adopt an ABUNDANCE mentality at all times, ALWAYS be aware that there are hundreds of girls out there who can satisfy your insatiable hunger.
You were talking way to much to a girl you weren't even going out with. You should never have time to text a girl constantly throughout the day or stay on the phone for hours, you must be outside digging enormous trenches in which to bury your enemies.

Furthermore, always talk to a girl LESS than she talks to you. If she calls you 4 times in a week, you call her once. For every 5 texts you get, you text back three times. Your responses are shorter and wittier. This reinforces your higher status and establishes a subtle dominance within the deepest reaches of her mind.
You are correct, unless you claimed exclusivity, this isn't a big deal. The bigger problem is that her attraction level wasn't high enough for her to avoid kissing another guy for you.
This is where you MASSIVELY fuck up. In the land of Alpha, something like this could be punished by death.

(a) You initiated contact first, immediately giving her more power. Remember the cardinal rule of relationships, whoever needs the other person LESS has MORE power. You have displayed that you need her much more than she needs you, ruining the concept of challenge for her, eliminating all of her social anxiety, and otherwise dissolving your entire Alpha frame.

(b) You needed to punish her. By that I don't mean scold at her or tell her it was wrong. You have to WITHDRAW all attention. The two things you need to convey to a girl when she does something you don't like is "This doesn't phase me at all" and "I'm not gonna put up with this bullshyt." It is CRUCIAL to do BOTH things simultaneously. You must maintain a calm and zen-like frame, but still display your disapproval. You should have completely ignored her and gone to game other girls.

(c) When you forgive a girl too easily the message she gets is "wow, he must have no other options." NOT "wow, he must really like me, I'm gonna go out with him." Too many guys have made this mistake. Men always mistakenly believe that their kindness will be taken as a sign of love and put them in the good graces of women.
BOOOOOM HEAD SHOT. Don't worry, I've made this mistake to. Again, you've displayed that you need her much more than she needs you. She also knows she has you by the balls so you can expect a decline in attraction.

Going back to the cardinal rule of relationships, when a girl KNOWS that you need her MUCH MORE than she needs you, she will refuse to share intimacy and eventually LJBF you HARD. She hugs you and will lead you on because women are naturally inclined to keep men liking them as orbiters (basic evolutionary psychology, women try and monopolize attention from men).
1. Talk to other girls. The best way to display attraction to a girl is to show her that you are WANTED by other girls.
2. No contact. If she contacts you, you respond concisely and in a funny way. Also, you take a very long time to respond. Act aloof and indifferent.
3. Don't THINK about this. It sounds diabolically simple but it works. The more you let your thoughts wander to her and such, the more you are harming your chances with her and your frame in general. Keep yourself busy with working out and working on life in general.

Cut your losses and move on, this sets up a win-win scenario for you.
-Only by getting over her will you re-cultivate attraction in her and have a chance at going out with her again
- Even if she doesn't want you back, you will be over her so it won't matter.
Purge yourself of such thoughts.

_________________
My Blog: www.solvemygirlproblems.com

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate the depth you have gone through, I didn't expect that.
I realize this is the core of my mistake. Honestly, I don't think the relationship we mantained over the phone was to blame much. Actually, I was kind of impressed how well things were going: I was rarely the one initiating the contact, and didn't need to think about answering less times than receiving and stuff like that, as I legitimately was very busy and didn't have much time to spend with her.

The kissed-another-guy shit test was were I botched hard: though my reaction was calm, I didn't have the “I'm not gonna put up with this bullshit” attitude: I understand that in theory, but would you indulge in elaborating that a little bit more.
I mean, what practically was I meant to do to express disapproval without expressing emotional involvement?
You really hit the point here. Everything was going smooth because I took it lightly and as a challenge to myself; didn't give this girl almost any importance.
She was very good, though, at creating that importance: when a girl does things like whispering poetry in your ear while kissing you in the pauses… I mean, it's not a matter of being alpha or beta, it is a beautiful thing and I certainly don't think my goal in self-improvement is to lose the ability to be emotionally moved by things.
Nevertheless, I realize being moved and accept the beauty of something is one thing, while grow attachment, and neediness, and dependecy, is another.
Those quotes you mentioned… they both came to my mind. Sooo textbook case! :)
LOL. So basical mistakes.
The point is I didn't even feel that she had something to be forgiven for, since — as you did say — we didn't claim any exclusivety. Nevertheless, when she mentioned it, I felt she was kind of feeling guilty and asking for forgiveness.
It's not like I gave any forgiveness consciously, though I understand I did in some way; but here, too, what was I supposed to practically do? That's what confuses me.
I undestand your win-win perspective, but from a strategical point of view, how likely is that she will see me with other girls by chance? I say very slight, shouldn't I make some subtle move to make chance help me being seen with other girls?

I actually asked a very dear friend of mine who's a natural about this (that's the first time ever I ask him for suggestions), and I was impressed at how his suggestions were similarly conscious as those that come from inside the community.
He told me something interesting that I want to share with you and would like your feedback on.

He of course told me that I should make no contact whatsoever, but in some way manage to get in her thoughts: get people around her talk about me, for instance. He also told me that I should do something to help chance to meet her "randomly", and, when that happens, show disinterest and sever time constraint.
I understand that's great advice, but he wasn't able to be more specific as to how practically "help chance". Any thoughts?
The only thing I thought is this: this girl happens to be a friend of one of my best friend's girlfriend. I could speak with this friend to make him help chance a little bit, while also making sure he doesn't speak of this to his gf. Though this is risky and would likely put me in discomfort.

Again, thank both of you a lot. And, Hakuna, I loved your direct and to the point style, it really made my day and gave me a lot of motivation and detachment.
Catch you soon guys,

神羅

If I could rewrite this screenplay, when she confessed to kissing some other guy, I wish you had said, "WHAAT? So, where's mine?" She gets confused, doesn't quite know or want to know what you mean. "Right here! On the lips!" If she gives what's asked, you're good. As is likely she doesn't, then you cut her off until she's ready to give what's owed. "Call me when you want to kiss me." She's flabbergasted; "No, seriously. You didn't seriously expect me to bless your escapade? A kiss is the LEAST you could do."

That sort of thing also works for last minute resistance to sex. If she suddenly stops the show, have her go home, and come back when/if she's ever ready. A "figure your own stuff out on your own time" speech is given firmly, maybe even harshly if it's warranted. She may realize she's "losing you" and jump right back into bed right there, resistance gone. Or she may leave, but come back days later. Or she may never come back; fine, useless cock tease gone. Next!

You could tell her "You owe me a kiss" when/if you ever hear from her again. Stick to your guns on that. She said, "Behave yourself" to you, what bullshit! She didn't behave herself with that other guy!

Wasn't that what I did? But doesn't this ultimatum give her all the power?
Perhaps it did come out as too needy, while with that "You owe me a kiss" line you're kind of reframing the situation from a "I give you time to think about your feelings for me" to a "Now if you want me again, you must give me some value", or something.

Anyhow, thanks a lot for the help.
Now for the next step.

She has contacted me on the Facebook chat with an excuse of a reason. I've been kinda cocky, and disinterested. Used a time constraint when she was actually engaging the discussion — I said my SPAM cooked me dinner and I had to go (also implying that I have a life with people). It was nevertheless true, though I actually had brought my laptop on the table to continue discussing.
Everytime I said: "Alright, bye!", she was engaging with some sorta sentence, so she wanted to keep me on.
I negged her on almost every sentence, and she was either laughing or calling me jerk.
Then I just said bye and logged off.

Didn't speak of us, or even mentioned "see you" at the end of the convo. Didn't feel like using the "You owe me a kiss" line, though I had read the suggestion a couple of minutes before. I thought FB chat was not the right place to create that kind of tension, but that I should use it would I ever have the possibility to phisically claim that kiss.
Besides, I didn't want to look I'm still thinking about it. Thoughts?

Now, what's next?
She showed me some interest, does it mean I am allowed to contact her or should I wait for another couple of moves from her?
I should reward interest with interest, right? But, as I understand it, I should reward that move with a little less interest compared to what she gave me; so, in a case like this, where she contacts me on FB chat, I shouldn't like call her or text her, right?

I understand this is a delicate situation and would really appreciate feedback in order to avoid botching miserably

神羅

Hey, sorry to bump this, but I received opposite advices and would like a third point of view.

Someone told me I didn't properly execute the Freeze Out by answering her on the Facebook chat, and that I should really ignore her for sometime for a proper Freeze Out.

While someone else told me that since she showed interest, now it's my turn to show mine; he adviced for me to even set up a date (without asking — just setting up a precise date).

So, now I'm quite confused. Any opinion would be welcome!

神羅

Rememeber If you;re not going out and havent decided that you arnt aloud to see other people, then its also ok for you to get with other girls.

Not sure I grasped quite what you meant; though I am in fact going out, and probably the first contact was due to the fact that I was attentive enough to be seen around with another girl by a friend of hers. She contacted me that same evening; though I don't want to push far with my suppositions.

By the way, another update is that she has contacted me on the Facebook chat again tonight, saying something about seeing me more on FB (she's correct, as I never use that feature, so now I'm leaving it online sometimes just to bait her).
I was AFK in that moment though, and when I came back, about one hour later than her message, she was still online.
I decided to listen to that other person's advice, though, and not answering her on the Facebook chat at all.

I still appreciate comments, analysis, feedbacks and advices.
Thanks

神羅

gotta be smart about the freezeout, it should not be 'obvious' that you are doing it, or she will just say "what a dickhead".

if your status says "online" and you don't answer, you have pretty much removed all doubt that you indeed are not "busy", but are in fact "ignoring" her...which can backfire miserably.

those goddamn IM services are a pain-in-the-ass for that exact reason. gotta play it very careful. almost best to avoid them because they all have the fricking "status" indicator.

Though I was genuinely AFK when I didn't answer to her. So that sort of things may happen. Besides, I think that Facebook gets you in that gray idle status after a while you're online without doing anything.

Do you think I should send her a message to her like: "Hey, I forgot the computer on; will call you later" or maybe something more on the line of "were you just trying to annoy me, or did you have something interesting to tell me?"?

Bah, those suck… back in track: what about these whole Freeze Out thing after two moves, albeit small, by her?

神羅

I called her tonight, I was kinda chilled out, created a tight time constraint.
She has invited me out casually; she said: "We are going out on Friday, since there are a lot of birthdays going on this week, and we're going to party all together." She put this out also because there's one of those birthday which is a common friend one; though I don't know any other one.
I said stuff like: "Oh, I'm kinda busy with stuff going on…" and told her about a lots of stuff I genuinely have going on, then I told her about this theatre show I'm going on Friday at 21.00 and she said: "Oh, but nobody's going to show up before 23.00 anyway I guess; so you could make it in time!", and I was like: "Ah, ok. Then I'll see how things turn out in the evening I guess."
Honestly, I wanted to say: "Then you can come to the theatre and next we can go there together", but I refrained from it. Don't know if I did it good, because I had the impression I could go for it, but wanted to look chilled out and uninterested enough.

Feedback? Was it good or bad not to tell her? What should I do on Friday? Go there even though it's an event with a lot of other people? And then what to do there? Treat it as if it were a set? Isolate her?
It's going to be one big set though, kinda though.
I really would appreciate advice.

神羅

Edit: before I forget, before saying goodbye (I was the one to end the convo with the time constraint I had put), she said: "I'm glad you called."