Excuse the lameness of this question,but i need a definate answer from those more game than myself. If this question has already been answered,keep in mind that i am new and feel free to redirect me to the thread.

Essentially,Im a nice guy and its gotten me so many first class tickets into the friend zome more times than im willing to count. The problem is that,it is who I am whether I like it or not.

So to those more masterful in the art of pick up than myself, does it really pay to be a nice guy or Have i been using a crutch all this while? If it does pay,anyway to make it work for me while avoiding the friend zone? If not,any tips on how to lose the crutch?

Yes,I am aware on how stupid this question is,but its all in the effort of being less than a chump.

It's not a stupid question, a lot of guys have this problem. It's good to be a nice guy, obviously being nice means that people will like you, just don't be "too nice". Nice guys end up in the friend zone because they care about other people too much, and everything they do is to be liked and to avoid any negative criticism. You can't be like that when you're picking up women. If you worry too much about what people think of you, you'll try your best to avoid rejection by:

- not approaching

- being overly apologetic when talking to a girl (big problem for you I think, you're even apologising for asking questions on here "excuse the lameness of this question", "I am aware how stupid this question is")

- not sexually escalating out of fear of the girl being offended, fear of being labelled as a pervert or creepy (this is the main reason nice guys get put in the friend zone, no escalation = no sex = friends only)

- giving in to shit tests and tolerating disrespectful behaviour from women (women want a strong confident guy who they can respect, not an insecure pushover who will do whatever they want)

Some people will tell you that you need to act like an asshole to get girls, but that's complete bollocks. You do need to stop giving a fuck about what people think of you, but that doesn't mean you have to be a selfish prick. I'm a pretty nice guy I think, but I'll never let anybody take advantage of that. I don't let anybody disrespect me. I do nice things for people because I want to and only do it when I feel like it, not purposely to make people like me or stop people from disliking me. I don't care whether a girl rejects my sexual escalation or not, it doesn't matter whether she likes me or not, whether she thinks I'm a pervert or a creep, I'm trying to fuck her, not make friends with her. If a girl give me any shit or starts being really overly demanding and bitchy I won't give in to it, and I will just stop talking to her, and she'll probably call me a jerk.

So no, being nice isn't a bad thing, as long as you're nice for the right reasons.

I have no idea if this is another thread, so I'll answer your question.

Btw, I am by no means an mPUA. I'm just your average PUA.

Note: I'm generalizing the nice guys class. Not all nice guys are like this.

Why you are a nice guy:
I used to be in your shoes too. There is a reason WHY you are the nice guy. THe nice guy is never rejected. Ever. If someone is always nice to you, you're gonna want them around. You're not gonna want to fuck 'em necessarily, but you might want them around. I'm not sure if you actually make moves on girls, but generally nice guys will not make a move as making a move will possible result in rejection.

Why girl generally don't like nice guys, instead put them into the friendzone:
They're boring beta males. It's that simple. THey blend in with all of the other guys and are not interesting. They ask the same questions everyother guy has asked.
Ex: Do what do you do for a living?
Trust me when I say you will get shot down FAST if you aren't able to make yourself stand out from the pack. I don't mean peacocking. I mean say something different.
Ex: Instead of asking her, "What do you do for a living.", look at her. Does she wear fashionable clothes? Does she carry any books? Assume you know what she does for a living. "Lemme guess, you're a designer?" She'll most likely say no and ask why you thought about that. Something I would say would be like, "Well, because you're clothes are so cute that I thought you might be a professional." Honestly, it puts yourself away from the crowd of boring, overused questioners.
On top of that, nice guys are fairly beta. Girls want an alpha who knows the direction he wants to go in. She doesn't want someone who needs approval for every decision he makes. She wants a guy who can take control of the situation and keep his emotions in check.
Ex: If you ask a girl what she wants to see and she replies, "I don't know. What do you want to see?" Fuckin tell her what you want to see. Most guys will keeps on with the "I don't care. I want to see whatever you want to see." bullshit.

How to stay a nice guy, but also become a pua?:
That's me. I'm considered a nice guy, but I'm also a PUA. It's not hard. All you have to do is distinguish yourself from the crowd, become an alpha (That means attemping a move even though there's a chance of her rejecting you), and... that's pretty much it. Haha.

To avoid the friendzone:
It depends on if you're doing night or day game. I specialize in daygame. If you do daygame, then your best bet would be to make your intentions clear by going direct. Tease her. Give her small touches. Wink at her. Basically, you want to send her obvious signals that you're into her without overloading her with too much and coming out as needy. She'll either reject you or date you. THere's no friendzone in this unless you decide to befriend her after being rejected.


Btw, it's hard to answer your question specifically because it is a GIANT topic. I just gave you some answers I thought were important. PM me or post again if you have a more specific question about the topic.
Goodluck buddy.

_________________
Thinhman
thinhman@hotmail.com

"When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome!. True Story." - One of the greatest PUAs ever!

The other posters have been on the money but I will add this. It's not about being a "nice guy" that keeps you from scoring and keeps getting you sent to the friendzone, it's being a spineless, unassertive, asexual, pussy that keeps you in the friendzone and out of the pantyzone.

Spineless, timid, asexual men that get pushed around are like timid, shy, fat, unattractive women are to men......off their sexual radar screen. Think about it, some fat, zit covered, shy woman may be perfectly "nice" and a good person but are you going to want to fuck her or have her as your girlfriend? No. the same is true with timid asexual men.

Women are sexual beings and do want to have romantic and sexual relationships with men, but when men are pussys and asexual and don't flirt with them or show any sexual interest or attraction they do not have any sexual interest or attraction in return.

You can be perfectly nice and treat people with dignity and respect but if you are timid and asexual women are not going to have any sexual feelings for you and the people that you associate with but do not have sexual contact with are your "friends".

Groom immaculately, dress in manner that highlights and not hides your body, have a hair "style" and learn to flirt and engage women in a romantic/sexual but still respectfull and dignified manner and you will be successfull.

[quote="thinhman" THe nice guy is never rejected. Ever. If someone is always nice to you, you're gonna want them around. You're not gonna want to fuck 'em necessarily, but you might want them around. [/quote]

I'm a very nice guys myself. BEING NICE DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD HIDE THAT YOU'D LOVE TO HAVE SEX. It's called hypocracy.

One more thing-you don't need to be an asshole to get girls.

Nice people don't get rejected-a definite plus. They aren't necessarily the ones you wanna fuck-not necessarily. be who you are-a nice dude, just try to come with a more sexual vibe.

Being nice+sexual is waaaay more effective than being an asshole+sexual. Especially with really hot girls.

Negs-commonly misinterpreted in PUA forum.

Assholes and nice guys use them differently.
Asshole-more offensive, a little funny
Nice guy- really funny, but based on some truth about her, which also makes her laugh about herself.
P.S.-don't take yourself too seriously-that's a major +.