Hey everybody.

Ok, i understand this is a very popular tactic among PUA´s, and it consists in you walking into a girl, without knowing her, and start asking for her opinion about subjects she doesn´t give f*ck about and make you look like a real weirdo.

Walking around in the street asking to random girls about their opinion about the problems between your friend and his girlfriend, and stuff like that? Seriously? Don´t you think that´s kind of lame?

I understand this might work to some people, but there is no doubt in my mind that you shouldn´t need to make this kind of pathetic figures in order to get a girl.

If you were a girl, what would you think if a random guy approaches you, out of nowhere, asking for tips about his personal life and other things you really don´t care about, since you don´t know the person? Would you think: "Uau, this guy must be really interesting! He walks around the street asking for strangers help about his own personal life. Uau! I wanna meet this guy!" Seriously? Do you really think this would impress any decent woman?

As i said before, i understand that this might result to some people, but still kind of lame and unnecessary in order to meet girls.

Think twice before doing it, cause i don´t think it will send the best message about you to the girls.

And this is where you fucked up. Chick crack is chick crack is chick crack. If I were a girl, I would love Twilight and The Notebook, if I were a girl I would spend hours on Facebook filling out personality surveys. Sure, YOU and I think it's stupid, but that's why you have to field test shit before you knock it. If you could just logic your way through pick up, no one would ever need experience to be good. The less "sense" something makes, the better. Sometimes that's how you get a good emotional connection. Learn to believe in magic and stop trying to figure out WHY girls like Twilight. It doesn't matter.

I think opinion openers are shit, for the most part, but when I have a new piece of clothing or necklace, I like to play the insecure bitch and ask women what they think about it. I have a coral necklace that a female friend says looks like something a grandma would wear. Feeling genuinely insecure about it, I'll tell girls that story, make them laugh, and ask for their take on it. Works just fine. Also gives you a good eject if shit gets awkward, "Well, I just wanted an outside opinion, thanks!"

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31 and still figuring it out.

Well...

If you saw someone on the street eating dog poop you would probably think he was crazy, despite you being a girl or a man. Do you really think that walking around the street asking for stupid opnions on your life is gonna send a good message about you? Do you think it´s gonna paint you as the type of guy most woman would like to hang out with? A guy who asks nonsense questions about his own life to people he doesn´t even know? Na...i´m not buying it.

Why. Don't. You. Try. It? Instead of just being a keyboard jockey. Do an opinion opener about a weird necklace or tie or bracelet or something, I bet it will really change your view if you just try it. And no, asking a girl's opinion is not like eating dog shit. Nice try.

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31 and still figuring it out.

Splinter, you are ignoring many dimensions of communication that happen between people. Body language, vocal quality, timing, the environment in which the pickup is performed, and the frame of mind of the target. What if she's going about mindless errands, isn't in a huge hurry, and is bored out of her mind? She might welcome a distraction, even if you or I think it's dumb. You seem to have a lot of rules and regulations for how you think people are going to rate each other. She might not care nearly as much about your dumb story, as how you smell, whether you're wearing good shoes, or whether you're giving off a "fun vibe." If she is stewing about task A, task B, task C, task D, then a story that knocks her frame completely into la la land might be a good thing. Twittering on rationally about what's supposed to be happening next, what the next correct step is, is incredibly dry and boring. Embrace the oddness, let it help you. If you need a rational explanation for why it might work, it achieves market differentiation. You're not a product that's predictable compared to what she usually hears, so that triggers some interest in WTF is going on.

It's called Pick Up Artist. Be creative.

I agree.

Opinion openers are fucking gay. They can be useful later in conversation as a way to get her views and start an interesting debate and get some banter going. But as the FIRST conversational gambit, they make no sense because why are you asking someone you don't know this question? This is especially true when the question is about someone's personal life. WHY would you ever ask a stranger for advice about your or a friend's personal problem?

Something like the classic "who lies more" can be useful, but only AFTER you've started a conversation. It makes NO SENSE to come up to someone you don't know and ask that immediately. The only possible way it works is if you swing round and grab the first girl near you and get her right in on the debate you're actually literally having at that moment with your friends. Anything else comes off as deeply strange. It will usually only work because the girl knows you're hitting on her and is just giving you some slack because she likes you.

A situational opener is totally fine and congruent, as is a functional opener (asking where the bar is, for example) but again, WHY are you inventing an excuse (read: LIE) in order to talk to a girl? Why can't you just be confident, honest and direct and express your intentions initially, and then if she is receptive, continue a normal conversation in much the same way as you would have if you had opened indirectly, except KNOWING that she will reciprocate your romantic advances later on?

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Stop Making Sense.

Do "theatrics" mean anything to you?
And your problem with that is...?

1. I don't mean that the flow of the conversation has to be logical and make sense. My humour can be very zany and off the wall, and I'll often I'll cut a thread and shift topics out of the blue. BUT, before I do any of that I have to establish some rapport with whoever I'm speaking with. What I mean about "making sense" is that, if you approach in a really weird way, you will get the "WHY is this guy talking to me?" look, and your FIRST IMPRESSION will be "this guy is weird." All your future actions are interpreted in light of people's first impression of you, and it's really difficult to overcome an initially poor first impression.

For example, if two people are described as follows:

(A) Confident, zany, high energy, crazy, in your face
(B) Weird, zany, high energy, crazy, in your face

then people will form a better opinion of THE SAME PERSON when given description (A) before they meet them than description (B), just because the first word is different and everything gets filtered through that.

Now, you CAN start a conversation with someone by asking them advice about your friend's 6 month relationship with his girlfriend. But I'm telling you, more often than not, even if the girl likes you, in the back of her mind she's thinking "why did he come over here to ask me this?" This is NOT a good first impression to give off. Because it either subcommunicates

i. You are just a random guy who isn't that good at talking with people and may have few friends, so you're asking advice because you're not socially adept

ii. You are interested in her romantically, but are not confident enough to express that honestly, so you're using a flimsy excuse to start a conversation

either one isn't great.

2. Looking at (ii) we can see why your second point is bad. If a girl is talking to you anyway because she's cutting you slack as she's attracted to you, despite the fact that she knows you were using an excuse to do so, then one of the first character traits she's picked up on is that you are SHY.

If you were CONFIDENT (women's number 1 attractive personality trait), then you would have just come up to her and told her you found her attractive and wanted to get to know her. If she were already attracted to you initially, then she would be even MORE so now.

If she WEREN'T attracted to you initially, and you came with your flimsy excuse for a conversation starter, then she probably wouldn't give you the benefit of the doubt, and say something like "why are you asking me?" which you'd then interpret as a "shit test" and spend 20 minutes doing cocky-funny comebacks and ploughing before realising you'd never get anywhere. If you came up and opened directly, you'd spend 1 minute being blown out and you could move on to a new set.

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Or maybe you're filtering and qualifying her to begin with. Maybe you don't like women of low intelligence and creativity who "can't play along." I guess it's a difference of whether you like any woman out there based on looks alone, or whether there are personality factors important to you.
I don't agree. What you've described are the prejudices of normal / normative types who are worried about things "being weird." This is pretty opposite of a lot of artist and geeky types, who actually like things weird.

The core of what we're arguing, is how is it possible to engage a woman's imagination. Some women have "weird" routes into their brains.
Where was it ever said that advice was sought in deadly earnest, on weighty matters? The final form could be one big drawn out joke, or act of performance art.
How about confident enough to say any bullshit you want? You're concentrating a lot on WHAT is said but I think HOW it is said matters a great deal more.
Be serious. 20 minutes of conversation is interest.

You have too many rules for how it's all gotta go down. My opinion.

support totally

I think some people dont´seem to understand that they don´t need to come up with shitty questions on his friend´s personal life in order to get a girl. You don´t need it, period.

And if you wanna be "original" and make an impact, i´m sure there are other things you can think other than walking around asking for nonsense advices.

What kind of person walks around the street asking the opinions of strangers about his friend´s relationship? Omg, this is so lame that i can´t even believe someone uses this as a tactic. So lame!

What´s the image this send about you to a girl?



This says you are not a confident guy at all. If you need to run after strangers to solve your own personal problems? You can´t solve it by yourself, or around people who actually care about you?

This says you are a fucking weirdo by walking around bothering people with things they don´t care about.

This says you are desperate, and that´s why you need to tell a stupid story in order to get a girl´s attention.


Do you really think that the general girls wanna hang out with a guy that walks around the street looking for stranger to solve his problems? How fucking weird is that shit? That´s a fucking turn off, dude. That doesn´t make you appealing! Do you really believe that´s the kind of shit a girl wants?


Btw:

Here where i live any non-retarded girl would laugh in a bad way if she saw a guy like mystery trying his lame tricks on her. It wouldn´t work. HIs figure is not appealing to general girls, and his tricks are seen as lame.

Haven't read the thread but I got this to add:

Opinion openers are for fagots. Be a man and go tell her whats really on your mind.

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Methinks he doth protest too much.

Ahhhh, the old direct vs indirect debate. Every 4-5 days someone has a bend new epiphany and steps on the soap box to tell the world, "Hear me in all my glory: Direct approaches are better! "

Like I said in previous treads like this is that for some people jumping from D&D geek that never steped out of his parants basement to a uber confident carismatic guy takes a lot of mentality changes. Indirect game/approaches are a great way to learn a lot of things: Confidence (heck looks like I can talk to girls without getting rejected), conversation skills, body language... etc. They will even get some results from indirect game. Remember they are comming from a 0 result backgroud. So 10-20 n-close, 5 k-close and 1 f-close over the next year is leaps and bounds. After a while he will come in here and post: "Euraka! Dudes, just drop the indirect apporaches, go direct!". He will have progressed from A (no success at all, no confidence at all) to B (indirect game shows me I can interact with girls, confidence is starting to build) and now To C (I'm confident enough and my life is sorted out so I feel confortable at approaching girls directly and I have enough experience to do it the right way.). Heck some will even be happy with the success they get with "B".

If you can go from A to C, *clap clap* I applaude you, but I woudn't say people are stupid from using B. A lot of people used training wheels on their bikes as a kid.

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You don´t need to act like a fucking weirdo to use inderect game.