First all I'd like to thank all of you on here, what I've read over the last few weeks has been a real enlightenment. And has changed me & made me realize I was being that 'nice guy' and hence why I was getting nowhere. So thank you all.

A bit about me, I was in a LTR for 14 years which ended 5 months ago. And have forgotten I even had a game. TBH, in my youth I was (and consider myself still to be, for my age (42)) a good looking guy. Getting girls was never a problem. But sadly, and now after reading through the material on here I've realized I was completely clueless, just lucky.

So this is the situation. I've contact this woman through a online dating site, she's 43 (HB9 on my scale) and had many years of being single and from what we've spoke about has had her fill of players. My guess is she's pretty much met em all. We've spoke loads on BB messenger and had a couple of long conversations over the phone. Then bam, I found this site and realized I must of been coming across as needy (answering her IM's way too quick) and have probably been too honest about myself and current situation. A real AFC and probably not that interesting. Damage already done now. So I decide to change things a little and subtly changed things a little, slowly so as not to appear too abrupt, not answering things immediately and being just slightly flirtatious in IM conversation. And this did get a positive response and I felt I was getting somewhere.

The sticking point is I've been trying to get her to go on a date with me for 4 weeks now (this is as long as we've been chatting). The first 2 attempts were thwarted due to the bad weather conditions we've had over here. But since then the two attempts I've made to arrange things, she's busy, working or got a friend coming round. And she gone completely cold on me. Contact is always now initiated by me and the first message is always answered promptly (within a couple of minutes) and then they're left hanging for a bit before she answers. If I say I'm gonna ring her, there's excuses like I'm in the bath or I'm going to bed. My guess is she's still interested otherwise she wouldn't give me the time of day. But I really feel like I'm being gamed. My spider sense is also telling me that maybe she's just getting off on the thought of hooking up but not actually going through with it.

So that's the story, your thoughts please and questions are welcomed

Disclaimer: I'm a total noob, and probably have no idea what I'm talking about. That being said, maybe that actually makes my feedback worth something. IDK to be honest. LOL.

I'd say you figured her out. Actually, I'm in a VERY similar situation with a woman right now. I did exactly what you did. Started out all wrong, then decided to shift gears. I am also getting the cold shoulder now. Let's face it, these women are savvy. She has obviously seen the change and is waiting to see if you are going to cave. She wonders if you are 'really' confident or if you are trying to 'fake' confidence with your new techniques. These are dangerous waters, be cautious.

Well, that's my amateur advice. I'm sure somebody with way more knowledge will be along soon to offer something meaningful. :p

Mack, thx mate, that's what I love about this site, good honest opinions. Yours is welcome, even if you consider yourself to be an amateur I found it meaningful & useful.

Update is, she initiated contact today, so there has been a change in her behavior. I'm gonna try for pinning her down for a date next weekend. The outcome will help me decide if she's playing me or serious. So lets see, i'll keep you posted. And don't worry not gonna cave, I've learned way too much on here for that to happen.

Thx again Mack and I wish you well in your endeavors

can't wait to hear your reply.

I too have been in a similar situation. ill give you a few ideas which may or may not suit you. some are risk taking strategies.

so your "AFC" ways may have damaged the relationship, she may have even put you into the LJBF group [lets just be friends] but then when you started gaming her she may have perked up. she could very well be shit testing you to see if your actually the real deal and to see if there is attraction between the two of you. Agreed she still likes you, otherwise shed simply ignore you but shes not.

STOP. you could soon get oneitis over this girl. you have obviously invested emotions and time into her so have her on your mind a little too much. This is bad as if things dont work out so well [touch wood they do though mate] you'll be pissed off, not just with her but with yourself...i have been there. so still go out there and make acquaintances with other women, even if its just as mates so that this hb9 isn't your only focus. remember this is your life...let her be part of it, not the other way around.

As for the date thing. personally i wouldnt invite her on a formal date [although i am 19]. personally i'd say im going shopping for my neices birthday [or any other reason...stuff for you house, be creative] and tell her to keep you company...maybe say you need a female opinion. this way shes not pressured into the idea of a date. when your on the date kinda thing just show her what a fun guy you are.

if she does stop replying to you..take a break from her. I've messed up a few times and managed to force myself to stop talking to her...and as a consequence got a text 2 weeks later saying hi etc. from her. also with a girl i gamed for a while, i kept messing it up. then went away to uni and she really has missed me and have been getting increasingly close. I'm not saying a break (stopping the input e.g saying hi over facebook or initiating conteact) is the best way forward. but if you mess things up but you still think she likes you...the time off will show her whats shes missing...no other guy is gonna be as fun as you...remember your a great guy.

not sure that helped...its been a long couple of days

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Tom, great advice matey and I hear you. For 19 I'm impressed, some good stuff posted dude.

Your right I think it is one big shit test, I think I'm just edging it at the moment. Thx for the concern about the oneitis, be assured I won't be disappointed if she blows me off. Would just appreciate a bit of honesty from her that's all. Rest assured I got a couple of other irons in the fire and acquaintances, women, who keep popping up on FB. And I'm sure she's seen em. Hence the contact this morning, loads of em posting H.N.Y messages on my FB page.

mmmm the date thing, I tried to get her on what she calls a 'day date'. And funnily enough used a similar ploy, needed a womans opinion on what to get my sister for xmas [lol how weird]. Her answer was that she doesn't do 'day dates'. This was when I was being AFC with her & I said I'd leave it up to her to choose then. This time I'm going to be ok; 'i'll see/meet you at [location]' or 'I'm taking you to [location]'. I read a post on here somewhere about it an it makes sense. Tell her, don't ask her if its ok. That's the plan anyways. Like I said in my original post, been a revelation reading the posts on this site.


Your post helped a lot mate. The bit I particularly liked was "remember this is your life...let her be part of it, not the other way around". That was solid gold mate. Hadn't thought about it like that. Thx again dude[/quote]

Wow 14 years is ages! Nice job on turning things around so quickly and picking yourself up relatively quickly! Many guys would have sat around and mooped for a long time.

Thx dude, I'd be a liar if I said it was easy. Through the worst of it now. I got some great friends and family, plus I've discovered some great friends along the way. Like I said in my initial post this forum has been a gold mine.

I wish I had something profound to say about it. The only comment I can make is you have to move on, clear out the trash inside and out. And realize that's its a whole new life, which I'm looking forward to discover. You never stop learning in life.

hey jonnieboy,

I'm new to the game too but my situation is pretty different to yours, i'm 23 so you are a lot wiser than I

I just wanted to wish you all the best with this one, sounds like you know the situation pretty well and tom has given you great advice so far so I won't add anymore.

Just keep us updated!

vagus, not wise dude, i'm new to all this myself and consider myself to be a student. Life is for learning. I have a mantra, I think it's from Confucius 'a wise man knows he knows nothing'. I'm learning on the job as it were at the moment .. lol

Yeah, Tom was gooood, some great advice there.

So update is I BB mess her a couple of hours ago, proposing a range of days next week. I know she's read it, no reply so far. Just gonna go quiet now and leave it, balls in her court now.

So dude, what's your situation? Have you posted it?

Thx for taking an interest

when she had friends coming over or any other excuse did she ask to make alternate plans?

Where is the line between coming on strong and coming across as hung up on one person that won't commit to a date?

Maybe its been fun to flirt but at some point if she isn't going to go out then let her go or work for you. Maybe you have also gone out at this point. Based on the info I would keep a line open and let her contact you but also look elsewhere so this one woman doesn't mean as much since technically you haven't gone out yet.

Best to you!

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Cheers for the input dude. Again, some thought provoking comments.

Never asks to make alternate plans, directly but it's like she'll say 'oh well another time'. Or if I say 'that's a shame' [that she can't make it] she's like 'yup'. And your right, never really offers and alternative. I get the impression and she's told me, she's a bit old fashioned and rightly so, in some respects that I should be making the arrangements for the date. But c'mon. Maybe it is just the chase she enjoys and that's it. And your right, technically we haven't gone out, at all. And TBH, I have been looking elsewhere, as I feel this one is a cul-de-sac.

So your right, I'd committed to this being my last attempt to arrange something with her. Leaving the communication open and she knows where I am if she changes her mind.

Greetings from another guy in his 40s that has been married 15 years. I haven't read all the other posts so forgive me if this has all been said.

If you are dealing with attractive ladies in their upper 30s to mid 50s they have heard every line, seen a million players, been treated like queens and treated like ho's. Seen all their friends treated like dirt etc etc You aren't going to fool anyone so don't even try to be manipulative or play any games.

You are going to have to be real and go direct while still being polite and treating them with dignity and respect.

The good news is they have needs too and if you have what they are wanting at that moment they won't be afraid to take it BUT remember they may have been off the dating market for awhile too so realize they are going to have their own insecurities, hang ups and AFC moments.

With that age demo, confidence and competance is everything. As long as you are immaculately groomed and polished and looking sharp they will forgive a little extra belly, receding hairline and graying hair but the will not forgive trying to jerk them around or pretending to be something you clearly are not.

As far as the online game, use it as a tool but do not depend on it. Many of the single women on there are actually dudes. What the fuck they are trying to accomplish is beyond me but it is the truth.

Of the legit biological females there are a lot of them that are on the net just for the attention, the compliments, and having a male talk to them. BUT they are very hesitant to get out and meet people in real life. They are getting bombarded by dozens and dozens of messages a day from crude and clueless jerks so it's real hard for a nice guy to stick out.

As a rule if you haven't met someone in real life within a couple weeks of online contact it probably isn't going to happen. Chicks get tired of guys trying to get to meet them quickly online but as a guy you pretty have to try to keep things moving forward otherwise they will chat you to death and never meet you. It because they are enjoying the chatting and it is no risk. Your best bet is to draw a line in the sand and say, "what else would you like to know about me in order to decide if you want to meet me or not" If they give you a response and you answer it, then it is time to shit or get off the pot because your time is valuable too.

The good news in all of this is you were attracting women your age back when the competition was the stiffest and you had the smallest pool to choose from. Your competition is now fat, bald, alcoholic, underemployed and burnt out while your field to choose from is wider because you could potentially date anyone from 18-60.

And like 20 years ago before the computer was common, people met the old fashioned way, through friends, activities, classes, hobbys, church functions, community projects etc etc. The advantage you have over all these kids on this site is you know how to talk to people face to face and don't have to rely on electronics. Use the electronics as an extra tool but focus on good old fashioned people skills that only come from face to face experience.

The odds are the next woman you get involved with will be through some friends, coworkers, family etc etc so start telling all your friends you are back on the market and ask them if they know any nice single ladies that are around your age.

I think the main thing to take away from all this PUA and "game" stuff is that if you are a fun guy that makes things happen and is always doing fun things with fun people, women are going to want to be with you and why wouldn't they? You are having fun. so #1 rule is get out and do stuff and be the person that makes things happen.

You had game all along, you just didn't know it. You fucked up a lot too but you didn't know that either and niether did the ladies. Just get out and be a good solid guy and it will happen.

Wow, solid stuff mate and eloquently put, thank you ...

I've been using the 'electronic' method if you like as I work weird hours [including lots of weekends] plus with childcare my 'social time' for me, is limited. And it seemed a good way of widening my net & 'meeting' women. But TBH I'm totally new to it and really I'm much better socially and face to face. But a complete learning curve for me. I like what you said about the line in the sand, it has crossed my mind a few times but felt it would be a bit rude. But your right, you need to tell em to shit or get off the pot, after all that's what it's all about meeting someone/people.

I've read some of the PUA stuff with some sceptisim myself. And I do have issues were it seems to be coercive. But I also think there is some good stuff; one's presentation, reading signals, body language and stuff about [like you said] 'confidence and competance' [which is everything]. There are some interesting debates on this site and it isn't at all what I expected it to be.

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~ Life is for learning ~

Yea the balls in her court I think you have the right idea about leaving it now and just wait to see what she does, who knows she may realise her mistake and come back to you in a couple weeks!

I haven't posted my story yet, probably because there isn't that much to tell yet! Basically, I'm 24 and during my teenage youth I wasn't a natural with women. I think I've always had the ability to be and i feel I understand women quite well having grown up with three sisters. As such, I never had any problems becoming friends with girls but I never knew how to take it to the next level. Obviously after reading the stuff here I realised my mistakes were from the first contact.

Somehow at uni I managed to fall into a great relationship that lasted 3 years and we lived together for 18 months. It was really good for me initially probably a HB7, it was my first proper relationship and over that period my self confidence grew. But sadly I realised that she wasn't for me, which is a shame as I could tell she wanted to stay with me, and had I met her later in my life, who knows what could have happened. I suppose I was always thinking, how could I know if she was the right one for me if she was my first real relationship.

So that ended about a year and a half ago, and from that point I read the game, stupidly I ended up in a fairly serious relationship again with a HB7.5 only a few months after my first, it was good for a while, but again it didn't work out. So that lasted about 9 months and so for about the last 6 i've been single.

I've had some intense exams over that period so no time to go out, but I've passed my exams now and have had a couple nights out now. I would say that my general attitude to women is different now which is causing more interest, but the one problem I have is that I'm attracting people I'm not really trying too, I've had a girl come up to me and ask if I am keeping her on the hook, I didn't even realise I was but looking back probably some of the interactions we had could have come across that way. Oops! Another HB7 has been giving me plenty of IOI and we randomly kissed one night, I couldn't tell you how it happened, I think it was triangular gazing, but I wasn't even trying (I suppose thats an indication to cut down on the alcohol). The other problem I have is that these are all university friends, I'm not great at opening yet, still have flutters of self doubt and I need someone to go out with who has read this stuff.

I'm looking forward to getting over that hurdle as obviously that opens a whole new world after that. I went to a NYE party where I didn't know anyone this year, only my friend who I went with. K-closed a HB8, but I didn't even have to try with that one so I'm not counting it as a real pick up, I didn't get her number or anything but turns out she found me on FB and sent me her number and was being very forward! Any advice on managing expectations? I don't want to get into a serious relationship again with the first girl I find which has been my pattern!

Oh and with regards to your situation, in the rules of the game it mentions this

"If she is vague about committing to plans... at some point in the initial interaction you made a mistake... conveyed lower social value... desperate... or exchanged numbers too early... or your sense of style didn't fit her criteria... In general never accept the words "too busy" regularly... if Angelina Jolie invited you to dinner... would you be able to make it?... In every interaction you want to be so interesting and such a rare find she's never too busy... be the perfect 10."

vagus you have just pulled out some awesome information. really interesting.

Due to growing up in the online era i have been using lots of online game. infact after my first relationship, she fucked me up bad... i resorted to online game. this was with no knowledge of the game. it was all afc stuff. then i read the game and bagged a few women who i had always had my eye on...just never had the bollocks. ok im not gonna tell you my story but basically: i didn't have the balls to game properly when i started university, only recently have i began to use it, so i resorted to online game again. if i met a girl, id online game her... but every girl i spoke too...ive never actually met and well got with. realizing this...online game can ONLY be used as a side mission. in fact hardly use it. im not going to game on facebook n e more and only use the phone for fun and then setting up a day2. any of the girls that i gamed after meeting them online have only became friends... my advice- go out there and enjoy life... go online whenever you have a spare minute...e.g when you are checking emails n e way.

again im not going to re-read what i put, but ive come to terms with the fact that even though my online game is solid... it rarely amounts to anything. Go out in the real world.

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