Agreed Kasabi,on most of your points.

My only beef was wit Trixta claiming that the 'walk away' would make the artist look weird and a looser.

That's BS.

That's the essence of indirect gaming,which's what I do 95% of the times.

A direct guy could stay in set and stack on,but since he bought a drink,the girls would think he feels a though he owns her now.

Really guys,it's not the material or the opener,it's the guy,the delivery & congruency.

A woman is not gonna reject you because your routine wasnt good!

Ppl(women)want to be liked;it's human nature to want to be accepted.

So if I were to deliver a lack'uster routine,or even forget it mid way,or just crash & burn on it,the girl is not gonna say,"Get out of here looser".

She will actually feel the social pressure & awkwardness of the situation and she will actually try carrying the convo' by changing it,"so what's your name"?

So my point is,there's no such thing as a bad routine that would make the set or girl reject you.

People(women)do not want to be perceived as bitches,bad-mannersed nor anti-social,so it's very rare you would be turned down in a social setting.

I know that,I've learned that,that ppl want to be polite and they will try their best to be perceived as a nice person.

With that knowledge,I've never had a girl or a set all-out reject me or my opener in a bar or club.

If they dont like the opener(it's boring,too long,whatever),they are gonna fucing pretend as though they like it(lol)!

No one will ever stop the artist mid way and say,"thi's a bullshit story",no matter how much the set dislike it.

Why not?

Because ppl want to be liked and accepted and not be conidered rude(in social settings).

So it isnt the routine,it's how you handle yourself after the opener:will you peck,lean in,chase,face the girl direct,or will you FTC,leave to return(preserve value),body rock out,etc.

You can open a girl by just saying "hi".

10 times out of 10,because of social pressure,this cicc will repond with hi in return.

No matter how ugly or fat the guy is,the girl will respond positively(in social venues).

It's what that guys does afterwards(tonality,body lang',etc.).

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@Madals-Lol,well I some-how see that we're on the same page here-unless Im wrong.

Megan Fox jumping on you would definitely be the result of she feeling your confidence and congruency and your BL.

So it's not the opener(words).

Some gurus advocate opning with the crappiest lines!!

Now I get what they mean.

I would open a set with,"Which 1 of you would bang Spongebob"?

I guarantee the girls will not say to me,"Get the hell out of her creep"!!

Social pressure of wanting to be liked & accepted will make the girls laugh,smile,ponder the seriousness of the question,then point at each other saying,"Kate would bang Spongebob because she's crazy(lol)"."No,Jenny would bang him(lol)"!

I dont have to field test the above routine to know that it's solid and that it would cause a frenzy amongst the set.

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@Trixta-I really didnt want to reply to you but...

So you dont know any girl who's into Astrology & sun signs?

I know countless #'s of women who buy newspapers just so they can read their daily Horoscope.

Yet you dont know 1 woman who's into Horoscope!!?

If there's 1 subject topic for openers which cannot go wrong,it is Astrology or anything spiritual.

Women die to chit chat on those topics.

So I think you Trixta,should really start meeting more women and geting to know them on the next level(rapport)if you'd like to get laid.

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k-loc I didn't claim that. I couldn't give two shits if you bought one of my girl friends a drink; what I actually said is this:
I would actually defend you, but of course everyone knows no one buys a girl a drink for no reason, right? They'd be suspicious of ulterior motives, and they'd be correct in their suspicions.

Let's look at why this would be: you've bought them a drink but the walk away is pretty poor. As kasabi said:
Are any of the following requirements met? Does it seem pointless to the girls, or even weird? How can you then agree fully with kasabi but then say I am full of bullshit? What they would be witnessing would be an altruistic act, which we all know that you never get something for nothing.
I'm not surprised you don't want to answer me - you're like a politician dodging a question. So far you've disregarded everything I wrote and replied to something that is irrelevant. Let me repeat myself again more clearly.

I do not know any girl who is into star signs. But I also did not did say it only wouldn't work because of this. In fact, it was a minor point in that sentence and the main point was that they'd use you to get the free drink then think "what a loser".

The absolute main point (which you can't and haven't answered) is that you can't provide proof of its success if you haven't tried it. Instead you just attack me

If you try it once and it works, you can say it works to an extent. If you try it 10 times and it works you can claim it is pretty efficient. I've just put this question to a girl friend and she said she'd wonder why he was doing it. In a way, I could argue I now have more evidence than you (though I still believe it counts for shit as it's so minimal).
[/quote]

Nice attack on the person there. But out of the nearly twenty girls I've had sex with I haven't mentioned astrology or psychic stuff once so there are two conclusions we can deduct from this.

-Women obviously don't die to chit chat on those topics, sure they might like them, just not enough to need to talk about it to mention it once in countless hours I've spent with them.

-You don't need to talk about astrology to get laid.


We are in an endless circle here; I can guess what will happen now in your next post.

-You will call me an idiot

-You'll attack me with "I suggest you want to do this if you want to get laid"

-Mention something irrelevant about astrology

-Disregard everything else, especially the fact you have nothing to back it up with.

So to save time, I will tell you that to your next post I will then post a request for some field testing, and then we can iron out the mistakes and hopefully turn this idea into something that could work.

Try your routine. If it doesn't seem to work then read kasabi's post and any other advice. Then post back the results. That is how threads should work, constantly moving forward instead of you attacking a straw man.

At the moment, we are arguing over something which doesn't yet exist (the assumption being you will try this and hopefully give some results, hence "yet").[/b]

If so, why did you even bother writing up a routine in the first place? Why are you even here? Spoken words are profoundly powerful. Can you at least accept that telling her "Fuck you, you're a motherfucking dirty cum bag of a whore!" - would not be a good opener? If so, it would be logical to accept that there are RANGES of quality in the way we communicate, not only in the way we deliver the message but also in actual spoken words. - This is the BASIS of our little game. Tossing the importance of verbal communications aside to prove a point over the Internet is silly . . .

And what is your point? Are you saying that your routine is GOOD? If so, please be REASONABLE and back up your position instead of changing the topic and lecturing the forum about the importance of 'delivery & congruency'. Which components of your routine do you see as its strengths? Why? I think I was pretty explicit and straight forward in explaining why I believed your routine was pretty sucky.
You claim that you have been at this for a long time and profess yourself to be the king of nightclub/bar game . . . and this has been your experience? You're telling us that "there IS NO BAD ROUTINE"?

Somehow, my experience is vastly different from yours. The nightclub/bar scene is where ROUTINES are more important than any where else. The entire night is one routine stacked on top of another and girls gear up to hear the next bullshit. They chat about this on the way to the bar/club. They chat about it at the club, "you won't believe what this schmuck just told me . . ha ha ha . . ." Hey, I know that you're excited to tell us that you're Mr. Social and you can make any routine work but let's not get carried away.
When they go to church, yes. At a bar/club, absolutely not; women want to be perceived as sexy. (to some, this also means bitchy. Take a look at the celebrities that they emulate.)
Have you mistaken the local knitting club for the local night club? This is nearly absurd. Have you ever been any major city in the World?
Yes it is. Sucky routines will lower your chances. Good routines will raise your chances.
So a mime is your idea of an MPUA?
If only "Hi" = solid game . . .

Don't you think that this is a utter waste of time? If you truly agreed with 'most of what I wrote' (What I wrote were REASONS why this routine sucks), it would mean that you agree that your routine is BAD. If so, why not just discuss the components of the routine to see if we can work on a better version of your routine? This would be helpful to you, to me, and to the whole community. Instead, you continue to justify your bad routine by shoveling BS . . . bad for you, bad for me, bad for the community.

@Kasabi-I only wrote this routine based on another guy's post on buying drinks.

So I basically wrote a better version of the guy's weak routine.

I never came up with it based on something I do or would do.

The routine is good Kasabi-I wont back down from that.

As with every routine,it can be modified to suits the artist's taste.

But I like this version.

Who doesnt,can modify it.

Every canned routine I used,I add my touch to it:be it "who lies more"?

I always use routine(in clubs),but what Im saying is one does not have to bust their brains trying to find the perfect opener.

If you give the best opener,most field tested opener,to a guy who suffer from severe AA,poor BL...No matter how great the opener is-it wont work!

Why is that so hard to grasp Kasabi!!?

It's not the routine and how perfect or bad it is.

It's the guy and his demeanor(congruency,Body Lang',etc.).

Yes women want to be perceived as sexy but they mostly want to be seen as nice,open & friendly.Not a bitch!

I do this with the sexiest girls,knowing that at the core,everyone wants to be accepted and not outcasted and branded as anti-social.

With that knowledge,it makes me bullet proof in social settings.

That is social-dynamics 101 & basics.

You should know that Kasabi,since you're privvy to psycology.

Everyone has a need to be liked.

An HB's cold exterior is just a front and cover up for her weak frame & insecurities.

It takes a lot for an HB to out-right reject a guy!

Most she would do is just not answer and not give eye contact.

But it's very rare that a random stranger would say to a guy,"Get the F out of here;stop talking to me"!

Another myth is a guy getting a drink thrown in his face.

That would absolutely never happen,no matter how bad you offend the girl.

You'd have to literally try groping the chicc to have her throw a drink on you or to smack you.

And if you'd followed my posts,you would read that Im an ex-New Yorker.

Lived and grew up in the Bronx for 19 years,so Im familiar with big-city gaming.

Sucky/poor routines will only lower your chances if you dont know what you're doing.

You are a vet Kasabi,so are you telling me that a vet like you can not use a crappy opener and have success!?

So all your material have to be 1000% on to have success?

Well,I can,and I do use crappy routines and still have success.I dont have to have a solid routine in order to pull a girl.

Is your game that weak Kasabi that you must deliver the best routine in order to pick up?

Im encouraging guys on the forum to innovate and create their own stuff without having to aim for perfection.

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I am confused! Are you or are you not the pioneer? Have you or have you not heard of these tactics?

If you didn't comeup with it based on something you do or would do, why the hell would you come up with it at all?!

Surely that would make it incongruent with who you are, and we all know the importances of congruency from the earlier lecture of it from you, the "king of bar/nightclub game".

@Trixta-Im beginning to have respect for your insights.

I dont buy girls drink neither:I only creted this routine as an exception.

This' where you're wrong again:the girl(s)would only suspect ulterior motives if you were to stay in set and not leave.

The fact that you left woul kill any suspicions.

It will only build intrigue.

It's like a move that a celebrity would pull;no friggin' strings attached.Buy and go.

I lashed out on you Trixta before learning your further insights.

I agree with Kasabi on points we see eye to eye.

But He's made very AFC'ish comments or ones which make the women the prize.

On your point Trixta of using me to get another free drink later on.

If you're smart,and we should be,then no way you should let the girl use you for another drink later!

The girl you'd asked would wonder why I was doing this?

Yes correct,but Trixta,that's the key to the routine.

Whenever you can make a girl wonder,that build intrigue & mystery.

That's what you want to inspire in the set-unpredictability.

The girls would figure that you would buy the drink then latch on-which is predictable.

To do the unpredictable,buy with a smile and leave would leave the girls surprised and wondering.

Thats' the hook to this routine.

You have to be willing to walk away.

I apologize for the personal-low blow Trixta.

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K-man, if you think that it might be worth your time to work on skills that will help others understand you better, give you more powers of influence, and at the very least keep others from perceiving you as a high school drop out, please take a look at these sites:

http://www.bookrags.com/articles/4.html
http://webpub.allegheny.edu/employee/d/ ... PEECH3.htm

You might also think about flipping through this book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=2mh6oW ... &q&f=false

I have never read ^this book before but I forgot the specific texts that I have read many years ago. This one seems to cover all the basic concepts. There are some serious problems with the way your present your arguments but For the purpose of this discussion, let's just focus on two concepts:

1. Statement: This is simply a general of view of a chosen topic.
2. REASON: This is HOW you support your STATEMENT.

The topic matter of this thread is YOUR ESP ROUTINE. You created this thread to present your routine and show off its qualities. I offered an argument of my own:

1. Statement: This routine is NOT good.
2. Reason: (Go back and read it again. I wrote how you misunderstood and misapplied some of the most BASIC concepts that make up the FOUNDATIONS of your routine.)

So here's your counterargument:

1. Statement: Alright! Now we have a discussion. . . I'm sure you have some great reasons . . .

2. Reasons:
Translation: This other idiot came up with it first. At least I improved it. I never do stupid shit like this any ways.
Alright . . . let's just stop there. How well do your REASONS support your STATEMENT? Do you have any idea how this post makes you look? I apologize if you suffer from real disabilities but damn it man, let's get your shit together. If you CANNOT see what you're doing here. Let me give you an example:

1. Statement: My 85 Oldsmobile is a GREAT sports car.
2. Reason: Well, it's not even mine. I got it from this idiot and put some new tires on it. I would never even drive this car. Look, you don't even need the best sports car, spending all that money. You can give a Ferrari to jackass and he wont' even know how to shift it into 2nd gear. It's all about the driver's talent. Hey, everybody just wants to be 'part of the race'. This knowledge is what makes me bulletproof. Really, I read it in Motor Trend.

How well does 2 support 1? Let's try an exercise:

1. Statement: My 9 inch dick is a powerful sexual weapon.
2. Reason:

a. Well, the size of the dick really doesn't matter. It's all about skill.
b. Ever see Jack's dick! Ha ha . . .it's the size my pinkie. My dick is bigger than that.
c. Hey, most girls are happy to be with me, they don't care about the size of my dick.
d. The last two girls I've been with fired off 5 orgasms each and couldn't walk for 2 days after wards.

You can do it!

On to some other random topics you've raised:
I am telling you that I don't go out and purposely do anything that I know lowers my chances for success. I am sure that I've unknowingly done 'crappy things' in the past.
Good for you. If so, why do you even bother writing or working on routines? Just go straight to the inner game section and present your bullet-proof inner game + mime exercises. Good routines are useless and overrated. Hey for that matter, why not just buy all the girls drinks and stick around? Crappy routines work as long as you do your mime act + have knowledge of one concept from social psychology, right?
What do you think?
I am encouraging guys to innovate and create their own stuff by learning to identify working concepts and eliminating idiocy. Confidence comes from being prepared, not by knowing that you're stepping into the ring out of shape but thinking you can compensate with a decent left cross. . . or a neat mime trick.

@Kasabi-Winning a point with you is like trying to win Nascar on a bicycle[just to use your Ferrari analogy].

#1)I never ever claim that my insights on game & psycology are mines:I've read and researched 100% of what I post,and I always give credit to the dating coaches I learn from.

So if you have probs' with my concepts,I guess you have probs' with the proven gurus I get my concepts from(Tyler Durden,Mehow,David Wygant,Thundercat,John Alexander,Vin Dicarlo,etc.).

And Im not gonna keep arguing over semantics and word games Kasabi.

You're the one confusing the post,which was pretty much straight forward before you'd corrupted it with twisted- arguments.

You tried confusing us with mental Karate but I wont allow it to happen.

This' a routine which will work for me and others,unlike you with a weak frame.

You're discouraging man ppl on this forum from posting their stuff because you keep jumping on post just to antagonize the writers.

I can handle your so-called attempts at "mind games" and insults.But for newbies on the forum,you're definitely discouraging them from posting,because they're afraid of GOD Kasabi giving them a virtual- ass whipping.

Give reasonable critique,but stop insulting & defaming my post & others.

When you yourself arent coming up with anything better than what I'd done.

You're like the guy who criticizes just to boost his ego.

Like the drunk guy at the bar making noise just to get attention.

Or the guy who brings up bogus arguments just to look philosophical.

Cut the BS Kasabi!

You dont have anything constructive to add to this post-then stay off of it.

I can guarantee your absurd-pointless criticism has discouraged many members from posting and give ideas on this post.

So in essence,you've corrupted a good topic with your BS,and I'd appreciate if you stay off unless you're gonna come correct.

This post has been officially tainted by Kasabi's ignorance.

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I also had disagreement with Trixta on this thread.

But after seeing his insights and concepts,I actually apologized to Trixta for disagreeing with his argument.

But to this moment,I cannot get Kasabi's concept nor point,so I cannot agree with him as I did with Trixta,who's more reasonable than Kasabi the Spin-artist.

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@Hobbit-Lol,you really put me on the spot(lol).

You sure know how to break tension with tension Hobbit(lol).

Im glad that you actually remember my posts to the point that you can recall Im in an LTR for 2 year now.

Appreciate it Hobbit.

Reason I came up with this routine was from another forum member's post about buying drinks.

He had a drink routine or an idea for one,so I basically improved it(to my liking)and decided to make a post on it.

So it was never my idea initially.

Since I've been in my LTR,my game has plummeted like crazy since I dont truely sarge and pick up anymore.

Anyway,I appreciate you Hobbit,for having a good memory and putting me on the spot(lol).

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No, you apologised for the ad hominem arguments (I accept - don't worry) but both my argument, yours, as well as kasabi's still stands. We are still at disagreement on the whole apart from agreeing on a few minor things.

Unfortunately this thread can only really progress unless someone bothers to do some field testing (bagsy not me), otherwise we're playing Armchair Pickup Artist.

It's a shame that people will see this and go with it, because you're listed as a forum leader, having over a thousand posts.

You posted not too long ago about some girl you met who was on vacation and wouldn't get back at you, so you stalked her until her friend picked up the phone to tell you to get lost.

That's desperate in itself, but you continued to go to the forum with your crap, and now you're putting more crap out with this thread.

This post is a routine, and you even stated you wanted it in the routines section. So unless for some fucked up reason your link doesnt work, quit looking for recognition in the lounge and start posting in the appropriate spots.

Unfortunately for everyone else, the forum doesn't have an "Absolute Garbage" for you.

_________________
Attraction is a choice.
ITS YOUR CHOICE!
Spread Love
-Ders


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@Trixta-Lol,the gretet point made yet on this post Trixta-the routine hasnt been field tested yet.

I like your style Trixta and I had posted on few of your posts in the for the month.

@Spread Love Ders-Am I a GOD?No.

Have I ever claimed to be a guru or PUA?No!

So why the hell are you on this post referring to my other posts as if to say that Im flawless?

Thanks that you think so highly of me that you cannot conceive that I could ever make blunders.

There's no other forum leader on here who'd posted stuff tha make them look un-PUA like than I do.

I've made threads about me being flaked on 3 times in a row,I've made over 15 posts about having AFC'ish probs' in my current LTR,etc.

So I dont run from nor conceal my bad moments in PU.

So Spread Love Ders,dont come on here trying to give ppl the false impression that I see myself as some kind of PU GOD.

You tried putting me on the spot by referring to posts that I'd been flaked on by the foreign chicc,as if I hid that(lol)!

I posted it seeking advise,so why are you trying to give the impression that I think that my all-around game is flawless?

I dont brag about my accomplishments;heck,I never even wrote a lay report eventhough I'd probably laid more women than you've ever laid eyes on.

So dont be another idiot wanna-be guru crying for attention like Kasabi.

"It's a shame ppl will see this[routine]and go with it".

What an AFC'ish quote Spread Love Ders!

Guys like you focus so much on the material and what's coming out your mouth,that you fail to see that words(routine)isnt what matters:but tonality,body language,presence,willingness to walk,congruency,etc.

If I give you a perfect filed-tested routine to try,it wont work for yo because you lack the vital components to make any routine work:confidence,cockiness,faith & congruency.

So it's not the routine,it's the man behind the routine.

This routine wont work for you because you have an AFC-mind set.

This will work for me because I have an abundance-mind set and an alpha- mind set towards this routine.

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