I seriously hope women don;t follow this advice seriously: Firstly, if a woman didn't even offer to pay some of the date it would piss me off massively. As for the "always make the meeting place convenient for you" - that would also be a big no no. I am not saying she should drive to mine, but neither should I have to drive to her.
This is something that makes me massivly lose attraction for a woman. If I try to arrange a date, after ringing her, and she says she cannot do a day and then doesn't suggest another time I just see that as wasting my time.
This is, by far, my biggest pet hate with women. I will instantly lose respect for a woman if she REALLY wants to have sex, but is following some stupid rule not to. Don't get me wrong, if they don't feel comfortable having sex then that is perfectly fine. It's when they want to but don't because of some "rule".
If this means don't do anything sexual, then it's shit. If it means "don't jump him, but you can still caress his leg in a way that says its on" - then its fine. At first its fine always being the man and making the moves, after a year/10 years if my GF didn't make any moves I would get so annoyed. Just in the same way as if she cooked me dinner most nights and I never cooked for her in 10 years.

A lot of them are common sense though - but I do think they should be classed as guidelines rather than rules (as with PUA)

you guys seem to be missing the point of the rules.

the rules are meant as a building block to break bad habits.

JUST LIKE PU RULES!!

Because making the adjustment to the right level you'll revert to your old ways. breaking the habit completely and then working back to the right level actually gets you where you need to be.

ntm many of you are misinterpreting rules.

for instance, the 'dont live with a man' rule is based on the 'why buy the cow, if the milk is free?' concept. I doubt I'd ever end up marrying a girl I was pretty much already married to minus the ring.

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Every Saint has a Past, Every Sinner has a Future

These rules looked very promising right up until it started advising on "hard to get" strategies. Which actually dis-courage suitors and reduce your chance of finding a partner.

There's alot of great rules about avoiding being sour or overly humorous, keeping a positive demeaner and not un-loading baggage onto suitors, and I'd honesly be attracted by those qualities to a girl, but the latter qualities of dis-interest and attempts to make me lie down and roll over would make me lose any interest I previously had in this girl.

"The Guidelines" by Ellen Fein .... is not nearly as catchy, you have to admit

The funny thing is though... if you do lie down and roll over for her, she'll probably end up losing interest in YOU.

Actually, I think what she's getting at here is "Don't reveal anything too personal, too early on in the relationship" which I agree with. You have to admit, it kills the mystery if you know a girl's whole life story after the first date.

As far as the first couple of dates go, this is another rule (or guideline, if you will) that I personally abide by... most men LIKE taking the lead, because, well, I believe it makes them feel more... manly. With that being said, I believe a woman likes to see the man take lead- "be dominant".. remember? Letting you take the lead turns her on, so why not?

Haha, I'm glad someone picked up on this. Also, "don't tell him you love him before he tells you" etc etc etc.



Anyway, I personally agree with most of the rules. On numerous occasions I thought "ha! I do this! This is so true!". Then again, there are some in there that I I agree are completely ridiculous... but I won't bother mentioning them, seeing as they've already been attacked several times



-Roz

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NOTE: I'm taking a break from the site, and hence will not be responding to any messages!

What we need to keep in mind here is that the rules posited in this "guidelines" book are largely for relationships, the goal in PU however is largely to "pull".

Yet, as a book for relationships it sucks! The guide-lines are obsessed with establishing power and making the other person give to ensure that the guy won't fuck with the reader.

Early on in a relationship you should be using the first while to see you can trust this person not to screw with you. Iff you've decided you "want" this relationship you really need to have gotten the whole mind game phase out of the system.

Relationships built on power games and attempts to make the OTHER person give more than you aren't going anywhere positive.

I do agree with that, but not with this:
If a woman realy likes to see the man take lead, or be dominant, then it would be the other way round. I don't think that those type of guys would like to be the first one to say "I love you" or "I've told my parents so much about you". Especially the latter is what the girl is supposed to say to my opinion. I don't see a leader saying that before the girl does.
There are moments you shouldn't say those things and just wait for the right moment, but that doesn't that when the moment's there, that girl shouldn't be saying it and just waiting for the man to say because of some rule.
All true. But this advice often leads to girls acting awkward and uncomfortable. I like their open and enthousiastic smile like while they're having a great time with their closest friends, not some awkward polite smile like while a business interview is being taken of her and saying only the necessairy stuff. Openess also shows confidence.

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You WANT to make a change.
You CAN make a change.
You WILL make a change.

Ambitious to be succesfull => Shyler

See, this is where it gets a little iffy for me... I'll say "I love you" in the moment that I mean it, and I expect him to do the same. When it comes to relationships, I don't think these words should be thrown around, just as I don't think they should be repressed in the moments where they're strongly felt...
I couldn't agree more. And to be honest, I actually forgot that the whole "don't tell him you love him before he tells you"etc falls under this category. As you can tell, I was thinking about something totally different when I responded to your post, my bad
Some women get too comfortable, and they have a tendency to unleash too much information too early on. This also leads to most men playing therapist. I see what you're saying, but I think there's a fine balance you need to hit.


-Roz

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NOTE: I'm taking a break from the site, and hence will not be responding to any messages!

Dude if you think about it, less than 1% of the females you'll be approaching are going to know or had thought anything about this or any rules about picking up guys for that matter. I can see a desperate girl checking it out but not a 7-10. Plus some of these rules seem to keep the girl in some sort of "princess" mode and to be expecting of certain things/qualities. Like rule #12. - "Break it off with him if he doesn't buy you a romantic gift for valentine's day. " F that. I'm not putting this girl on a pstle like every other guy. This seems more like a gag gift for girls.

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"Girls can fake orgasms, but guys can fake the whole relationship."

Hrrmmmm.

And your point is.

It strikes me that you are getting some of the best minds on here to pull this book of rules appart for you own self interests.

Clever girl.

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Its getting Hot out there.

Its all to easy.

I want to be a tree!

On the contrary, I can't imagine that the rules would work for these type of girls, because the girls beneath a 7 who act that hard to get are even more unattractive and those type of girls aren't investing in such "girly girl" stuff.

No, I think it's more of the book for outgoing fashionistas who read the Cosmopolitan a lot, who are dating a lot but who can't seem to settle a guy for a long term relationship.
I think as a girl you have to be realy beautiful or special in order for a guy to invest so much in a girl who act according to the rules.

_________________
You WANT to make a change.
You CAN make a change.
You WILL make a change.

Ambitious to be succesfull => Shyler

Half these rules with either cause a relationship to fall apart because either the guy will need to become so needy that she will lose interest or the guy(PUA) will see too many IOD's and move to another girl because he has choices.

There is a difference between hard to get(GOOD)
and showing no interest(BAD)
cat string theory, Push/Pull, etc where are they in these rules?

Telling a woman to act like a man in many respects is like telling a man to act like a woman in many situations. Let's start telling guys they should pour their guts out on the first date. oh wait AFC's already do this.

A women who wants to be chased by a real man should act like a real women.

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Inner game is the core, outer game is just an expression of it

lol its funny how you guys are doing the same thing to these rules that outsiders say about the pick up rules.


the "don't say I love you first" thing is more to force the women to make sure she's not saying it too early. But saying 'don't say i love you too soon' is really hard to gauge.

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Every Saint has a Past, Every Sinner has a Future

Great post, saves me reading another book lol

anyway this one stood out for me:

It's far too counter-intuitive for me, on a Day 2 I found it much easier to "Frame" myself as her BF already, so these points make little to no sense, plus if she doesn't tell you about her day, I can see the Date turning interview style quickly.

Lemon Lawed!!!

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To Succeed You Have to Stop being Ordinary and Start being Legend...Wait For It....Dary!!!

If you do what you always did, you will get what you always got.

Live for the Moment, Never see a Chance you didn't take!

Outsiders also have the notion that romance movies portray how it would really go down in many situations. This Rule book seems to be based upon this principle. This is a great marketing ploy to sell many books. I doubt the lady was trying to bullshit the market but it is set up well for its market(desperate girls sick of beta guys who dream of mr. perfect.)

PUA rules work because they are proven time and time again.
Bring back some proof of the rules.

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Inner game is the core, outer game is just an expression of it

Roz, while researching more about these rules I came across some other rules girls follow: Everybody comment on these ones.

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"Their compliance is,
'Does she grab your hand?' F*ck you! I want to grab her mind. If I can
grab her mind, she'll be grabbing whatever I want, any way I want her to." - Ross Jeffries