After reading everything on here, I feel as if the wrong message is being sent. There is nothing inherently wrong with being a nice guy. It seems as if people on here are afraid of treating a women with respect and class because they see it as a DLV or some other bullshit. There is a statement that every women wants a bad guy and that is only true to an extent. Honestly, women want to feel beautiful, be complemented, and be treated well overall. The problem with the nice guy thing is it is not a challenge for women therefore women find you less attractive. There are all different types of men out there who are very successful with women. There are the hardcore assholes who treat women like shit, but on the opposite side of that spectrum there are the respectful men who have a silent confidence and the "it" factor that is so hard to describe. These men exude confidence in both their body language and speech and women flock to it. They respond well to all their compliments because women (sometimes) understand the difference between a genuine statement and a lie.

I think men here should worry less about being labeled the nice guy. You have to provide a challenge to the women, this does not mean you treat them horrible. This may be hard to do if you are not very successful with women, but realize that you should be judging them. Care less about what they think of you and women will recognize this. They will see that you are comfortable in your own skin and will be attracted to you. If you are a nerdy world of warcraft player, don't hide that fact. Be PASSIONATE about what you do and that gaming habit will not seem as unattractive as it once did. I don't post here too often but I feel that there is a wealth of information here that is sometimes really difficult to decipher. Some people say do this, other say do that and it all just becomes really confusing.

There is no one perfect thing to say. Some lines work with some personalities while those same lines would crash and burn with other personalities. The main thing is be congruent with who you are. If you are a nice guy, don't try to be a prick because someone said you should be. Carry yourself in a way that shows that you will not accept being treated like shit just because some women was fortunate enough to have good genes. Women are the same as men, they hope to meet someone who will take good care of them. As a person who deserves being treated properly, if those feelings are one sided and not reciprocated then LEAVE.

I understand it may not be easy for people who have limited success with women to take this advice and apply it. The sight of a beautiful women may still make you nervous. That is completely acceptable. I don't believe I got to this but all women really want is someone who is interesting. Now the term "interesting" can cover a large array of characteristics and that is why I chose that word. Women want to experience new things and learn new things. Now if you have great stories to tell but your body language sucks and you don't hold eye contact, you won't be deemed interesting. Everyone realize this please: WORDS (WHAT WE SAY) IS JUST 7% OF OUR COMMUNICATION. Did anyone see that? What we say has a very small bearing on how PEOPLE (Not just women, everyone!! Correct your BODY LANGUAGE and you'll find people are more receptive to your conversation.) perceive us. I know I've gone all over in this post but many things on this website are just confusing the shit out of people. BE YOURSELF! Don't be what you think that model over there wants you to be. Of course you want to bone her, but don't change who you are. Be INTERESTING EVERYONE!

I both agree and disagree with you. One thing to keep in mind is that there are three types of men (generally)

1. "Bad" Guys
2. Good Guys
3. Nice Guys

There are many qualities that they each have.

1. The "Bad" guys are sought after by woman because they create a lot of excitement. They seem wild and extremely confident in themselves. This keeps woman on their toes and drooling for more. The are confident, self assured, and don't let anyone stand in their way. They are the alpha males and woman are attracted to them because they are programmed to be attracted to the alpha male.

2. The good guy. The good guys are also confident, self assured, and don't let others get in their way. They are successful in life and also exude confidence. A lot of times they have high standards for the woman they date and this creates DHV. They may be good but they will not be walked on and have there own well thought out opinions. They are leaders and alphas.

3. Nice guys... nice guys are schmucks. They are overly nice to woman, complement them all the time, pose no challenge, get walked all over by woman, constantly end up in the friend zone because they won't kino, are the furthest thing from alpha, are desperate for woman to want them, and end up never getting laid...or just meeting woman at all.

You definitely want to follow a type that fits your personality but... we are men! What have we given to woman for the past 30,000 years that they need/desire?? That is protection and survival value. That is why alpha males get the ladies. Woman sense the confidence and leadership qualities and gravitate towards men who exhibit these qualities. Being the NICE GUY won't get your anywhere. It's the wrong angle to tell men to be "Really nice" or "complement her a lot" it's okay to do these things but what makes you different then the other 5,000 guys that complement her during her life?
Example:

I've got a great friend, we've been friends since first year of college. He's a good looking very skilled musician. He meet woman like crazy, actually sleeps with a good amount but can't keep one around...why? Because he is sappy and overly complematary. I've heard two of his ex's say he way too sensitive and nice.

What woman say they want and what they really want are different. They say they want a sensitive, nice, caring male.... you can do that. But you still need to be a man. Confident, strong and alpha.

Guys get confused because girls say "I want a guy who treats me well and gives me compliments and makes me feel special" and guys interpret that to mean

"the way to attract me is to treat me well and give me compliments and make me feel special"

but that's not what they're saying.

They're saying

"I want the guy WHO I'M ALREADY ATTRACTED TO to treat me well..."

Women have ZERO advice about what actually attracts them, because it "just happens."

You can be good to her and treat her well, but you have to be the guy she wants to fuck FIRST.

The guy she's attracted to is confident, doesn't take her shit, is a bit aloof, clearly has experience with women, doesn't necessarily need her, and has a bunch of goals and ambitions himself. He doesn't supplicate, or change his plans, opinions or friends just because she says. She ends up chasing him, working for his attention, and eventually giving over part of herself to help him achieve his ambitions.

The essence of this is that women crave a man who is DOMINANT. A dominant man gives her great sex because he brings out her natural, female desire to be SUBMISSIVE. In the bedroom, women crave to be manhandled, treated like property, told what to do, talked dirty to, spanked and fucked hard.

They get all this from the classic "bad boy" type. But, unfortunately, these dominant qualities are also present outside the bedroom. Therefore, he does not treat her with respect, is controlling over her, doesn't listen or care about her opinions, and treats her like shit in front of his friends. She might stay with him despite this for the good sex, especially if she has low self-esteem, but not forever.

Her next boyfriend will probably be a classic supplicating AFC with a nice job who buys her flowers and cares for her, which she'll love as such a contrast to the last asshole. Until she finally puts out after like the 5th date because he doesn't want to "rush things" and then the sex is FUCKING AWFUL because his same personality traits carry over to the bedroom too - he asks permission to do things, thinks that she wants him to make "sweet love" to her instead of grabbing her and fucking her hard, wouldn't dream of saying anything as "vulgar" as calling her his dirty little bitch while they're "making love" and probably doesn't make her cum.

So, your gameplan is simple.

From opener to fucking for the first time, be the DOMINANT guy, who can be cocky and a bit of an asshole sometimes.

Continue to be dominant in the bedroom. She wants to be submissive. Allow her to be.

Outside the bedroom after sex, you CAN be nice to her. You can give her compliments. As long as you really mean them and you don't smother her with them for no reason. Women like to know that they turn on their man. They want to be appreciated by you. Once you've fucked, you're not "sucking up" to her or trying to make her like you, you're just being a fucking normal, nice person.

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bcjmbam, I think you are taking everything everyone says on here a little too literally. You should take all this advice with a grain of salt. Each of these techniques are different and specialized, too specialized. With game you take the parts of each "method" and incorporate what you agree with. It you feel uncomfortable with something you are doing then that's not part of the game that you should play.

I take some parts of some methods and lots of it I absolutely scorn. Like DHV's. That's just not me, so I don't do it.

Also keep in mind that a lot of these "methods" are just ways to get people started. The only real hurdle is AA, once a beginner gets past that they start to adopt their own style, and that's what it's all about.