Roz, are you aiming your post towards a one night stand/short term casual thing or a longer term style relationship?

Blondguy, good post and you're completely right in everything you say.

But why bother reacting on it?

Roz's post was clear. She mentioned "saying that when a woman undresses before you and shows you her vulnerability", and not "say her body makes you horny when you just met her". If people don't understand that, then they should read better or twice that Roz isn't talking about a "nice guy who does everything for her" before commenting on it.

Also, it seems like some people finds it taboo to say something like "you look good/ you're perfect to me" or compliment her on whatever. Like they're scared to death that they will not be "man" enough in her eyes if you do so. Isn't that the same kind of neediness as saying "you are beautiful/hot/whatever" to her when you just met her?
And otherwise, is it bad to give value to someone who deserves it?

_________________
You WANT to make a change.
You CAN make a change.
You WILL make a change.

Ambitious to be succesfull => Shyler

I completely agree thanks for this post roz, I actually came across this a few hours ago . And I've came to the conclusion that no matter what you say , you can never change her perspective. Either that or I'm just realy bad at compliments :p

Lots of varied topics here:
"Compliments" in this thread topic has less to do with 'value' and more to do with general differences between guys and gals. Girls get off on receiving 'verbal' compliments from her mommy, doctor, professor, girlfriends, gay salon guy, random old lady, the local police officer, etc . . . But a potential sexual suitor compliments her and her BS radar pings at full mast. She thinks, "OK . . . this is weird . . . " - and she couldn't even explain her what he hell is going on. Guys, how many times have you heard after complimenting even your close female friends, "Oh you don't mean it. . . Oh you're just saying that . . ."

Now guys . . . how many times have you heard GUYS say, "Oh, you don't mean it . . .you're just saying that . . " - LOL . . . It just doesn't happen. See . . . a guy can receive compliments from his mommy, police officer, old dude, and he goes, "thanks . . . whatever . . . " but when a potential sexual suitor compliments him, he acts like a rottweiler on his way to the butcher shop. Many guys naturally gravitate to popping off compliments to chicks because when a hot girl does that to him, well . . . he pops a boner.
You're right . . . this 'could be' the better time for 'verbal compliments' but a guy should still be aware of ALL FORMS of communication.
Absolutely agreed with this the first time around.
Your goal is to 'ease your fear'. Your goal is to feel good about yourself through others. Your goal is to yank the bikini wearing mental midget out of the bathroom. My goal is to remove her bikini and fuck her. If "listen, your body turns me on" made you spread your legs in the past, believe me, there were plenty of other things going on.

You KNOW for sure that the 'wow' you received from the guy who popped your cherry was far more emotionally moving than "Listen, your body turns me on . . " - I'm simply recommending for guys to go for the method that WORKED ON YOU (as you clearly outlined in your OP) and to shy from the method that you 'think' will work on chicks. . .

Again . . . just to clarify: You're on a PU Forum. Work = Fuck. Had you been on Oprah's "let's make mental midgets feel better forum", I'd have have awarded your suggested method 5 stars.
While this is an important aspect of 'strategy', we need to step back a few steps. A fighter doesn't begin setting his strategy by thinking of what he should do for a knock out and what he should do for points. No . . . you start with easily identifiable facts like his opponents physical attributes, his physical abilities, his physical skills, his opponent's personality. . . . This dictates general strategy like 'distance control' and things to look for and avoid. Then you can move on to detailed strategy.

In this instance, we have a delusional girl who is F'd up over her perception of her body. Really? Do you really want to go the 'logical route' with an illogical person? It doesn't matter if you marry her and you're communicating with her at age 60; the basic strategies remain the same.

This is in fact what Roz is talking about. I didn't think to specify- my mistake.

And although I agree with what blondguy said, it's important to note that in the second part of my post I was talking about the powerful effect compliments have not on a woman, but more specifically, on a naked woman. Women are not themselves when they're naked... we're a lot more vulnerable (and honest... like someone already pointed out )

However, in the first part of my post I wasn't talking about compliments..

For a woman that is openly sharing her insecurities with you, "Your body turns me on”, is not a compliment- it's a reassurance. A woman that finds herself unattractive is blind to the "obvious" signs that a man is turned on by her. I have a friend that at one point refused to fuck her boyfriend because she "gained a couple of pounds"... we all told her: "Listen. If it goes up, he thinks you're hot. Enough said". But here's the thing- no boner or "wow" could convince this girl that her boyfriend still found her body hot. What she needed was to hear him say it. What she needed was verbal reassurance.

Take saying "I love you" as another example: you can 'protect' a girl, you can provide for her, you can give her a 'title', take her off the market, commit to her, you can do all the things men do when they love a woman, but until she hears "I LOVE YOU", it may not even occur to her that you do. Sometimes for a woman, actions don't speak louder than words- sometimes a woman just needs to hear you say it.
Now here, you're getting the first part of my post mixed up with the second part. I'll take the blame for this and admit that perhaps my post just wasn't clear.

"Listen to me... your body turns me on" was something I suggested saying not as a compliment, but as a reassurance to women that let their insecurities run their actions:

"Wow" is a compliment. For those guys that CAN'T get her to strip down, because she is too caught up on how "fat" she is, or that CAN'T get her to try certain positions or keep the light on, verbal reassurance like the kind I outlined above works best.

~ Insecure women who let their insecurities run their lives => need reassurance. "But I'm not there to reassure her, I'm there to fuck"...If you're dealing with a girl like this, reassuring her will help you get in her pants!

As far as compliments go, the whole point of the second part of my post ("The Naked Woman") was to demonstrate how much they mean to us when we're naked- how a banal three letter word like "wow" can make me melt. "You're hot", "You look amazing", "Your skin is so soft"... I've heard all of these things, and they've all taken me over the moon. They're ordinary and overused, but somehow they mean the world to me when I'm there before him without any clothes on.


And I agree with you here.


-Roz

_________________
NOTE: I'm taking a break from the site, and hence will not be responding to any messages!

I think kasabi does have a point in that women can smell bullshit from a mile away. If you tell a woman who really is overweight that she isn't, well she might smell your bullshit. Now my own experience is highly limited, but I can relate this story from the second woman I ever fucked (just a few months ago):

We had been swimming nude in a lake at a friend's dock who was out of town at the time and things were getting pretty hot and heavy, so we decided to finish what we started by getting a hotel room for the night. She had stripped down, and was complaining about the fact that she was overweight (and in truth she was--not terribly overweight maybe only about 15-20 lbs or so, whereas I was about 40 lbs overweight), and all I said was "So am I, hon--but that didn't stop you from going after me, now did it?" I gave her a big smile and gave her a "come hither" gesture with my finger and a look in my eyes that said "come here I want to fuck you now". And that's exactly what we did!

Now granted, I would have had to really screw things up at this point since we were both pretty horny and ready to go. Still, I think this seems like a reasonable approach to take in general. Roz may be right though in that if she's really hesitant to get naked in the first place she might need more reassurance than just a nonverbal look.

But I would be careful about saying something that you don't really believe, such as telling a woman who really is overweight that she isn't, because it may activate her "bullshit detector".

_________________
I think, therefore I am.

This thread is full of people who can make coherent and understandable sentences.

What the hell happened to the rest of the forum?

No, no . . . 'reassuring' gets them to stop their whiny shit. TURNING THEM ON SEXUALLY gets them to take off their pants. It's amusing that any girl would need assurance so bad that she'd go on a forum to proclaim that "insecure women" will fuck guys if we'd only, "reassure" them. The reality is . . . any girl with such low self esteem is an open net. This is a free throw. Almost ANYTHING a guy says to them gets them to spread their legs. The idea is to channel all those insecurities so that the girl can only express them through her VAGINA.

In fact, when dealing with mental midgets, I'd say that the ONLY way a guy can screw himself over (and not get screwed) is by going the Dr. Phil route as prescribed by Roz. You can tell us that this might 'make girls fell better' but telling a bunch of guys that this is the route to open her legs is utter BS.

I'm leaving out the actual methods . . . but if FUCKING was the only goal, making insecure girls feel even MORE insecure than they already are is probably the highest percentage route towards opening their legs. The older guys here who've met more than a handful of girls know exactly what I'm talking about.

A females input is always lovely and my jaw usually drops when i see a naked girl but i always try and hide it now im just gunna let it hang

_________________
Heres to our children, may their fathers be rich and their mother be beautiful

Your perspective is always interesting, kasabi! Of course fucking isn't my only goal--I also want to feel good about what I've done the next morning, and I definitely couldn't do that by taking advantage of a girl's insecurities and making her feel even more insecure just to get her into bed.

Thankfully I don't think this particular woman was all that insecure. She was just bitching/venting, like we all do in our lesser moments. At least in this situation calling her out on it was a strategy that seemed to work (or at the very least not destroy the opportunity), but I'll be honest here and say I don't have enough experience yet to generalize from it.

_________________
I think, therefore I am.

Pretty sure she's talking about any woman who may or may not be a mental midget (probably isn't) who feels less "secure" (or rather, just more vulnerable) when she's naked, and just needs more sexual comfort for the LMR not to kick in so hard.

This kind of posts makes this forum a very good place to be

Thanks

_________________
a-letter-to-mrnice-guy-vt63515.html
www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/golden-quotes-vt66810.html
the-nice-guy-emerges-vt66762.html
www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/man-up-ffs-vt60690.html

QFT

Most women the guys want on this forum are not going to care about some compliment/reassurance. If she has any form of self esteem and belief in herself a man will most likely be able to open the girls legs by playing insecurites.
Instead of a women falling into an emotional wreck over something that made her feel insecure she will try to validate to herself that she is good enough for this guy by fucking him.
The woman thinks she will feel better about herself once she does fuck the guy but it doesnt end up that way.

Roz, I wish some of what you said was the truth. Life would be way easier and make sense to average joe. The problem with women is that women want everything, they will say what would work on them but a woman usually does not know herself.

_________________
Inner game is the core, outer game is just an expression of it

Guys, I kinda feel you think you're being sabotaged by Roz into making you guys AFC's by spitting out compliments left and right. Chief made a really good point about the LMR stop, and I agree with that. Look, it is all about intent and honesty. Seriously, why hold back a compliment a woman may deserve. I think that the neg theory sort of changed our perception of compliments when MM first arrived onto the scene, but also when the discussion of AFC's and their constant Bullshit Compliments really ruined them. Kasabi makes a good point that we're not there to make them comfortable, nor are we there to reassure and that rather we're there to turn them on sexually. However, Roz had said the chick was already naked, anyways.

IMO, Roz is referring to a more specific case; where the girl is already attracted.

Kasabi is referring to the attraction process; just don't be a desperate slob that compliments and looks for reactions.