This sounds like a follow-up to an opinion opener.

ANYWAY

It sounds like you're justifying his actions with your feelings. Allow me to provide a subjective view:

"I mean it's understandable since I've know him my whole life" - Justifying his actions.

"there are also times where he tells me about the girls he has hooked up and dated." - Jealousy plotline. Nearly any sort of reaction, even nonchalantness, can show that you want him as more than a friend. And then you know he's got you (and he does too).

"He keeps saying I'm gf material and would make me his gf if we dated" - Future projection to make you invest in this reality.

Sounds like cat string theory to me.

As far as lying to a girl to get in her pants, no. Why? It just makes my head less cluttered when I tell the truth. Lies need to be remembered and can eff up my persona.

If the person with the less feelings has the most power, how am I suppose to change it around, with me having the upper hand? And I thought I had the upper hand in the situation...with him asking me out for saturday. My goal isn't to sleep with him or date him, it's more for me to know that I have a hold on it all

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♥ BSB ♥

First of all, no.

Second... I understand that it can be very difficult to avoid getting sucked into the belief that pickup is about power and having the upper hand, but that's really just not how it is.

It normally takes a long time before you realize that all this shit it isn't about power at all, but seek the truth long enough and you'll eventually discover that it's actually about surrendering in order to let nature just take its course. Once you get to that level then anyone trying to play power games can't even touch you.

I refuse to have a Casanova quote thrown around like this.

What do you mean exactly?

Quite frankly, there are many times when a girl will say she doesn't want to play games and will show a lot of interest early on, and that'll be fine with me, but it definitely makes her less of a challenge than the girl that plays hard to get and is hot then cold. This means the non game player gets less emotional investment from me whereas I will be tempted to chase and win over the game player. This is human nature.

If I were to text a girl every day asking when we can see each other again and trying to fit my plans to suit when she's free, then I will come across as too available and she might easily lose interest in me. If I don't text too regularly and remain somewhat aloof, she chases me. They ALWAYS do.

Obviously when you're in real relationship territory the games can stop, but for the first few times you have to keep things like this to keep her interested.

I think maybe Casanova was saying he submits to his sexual desires, rather than to the woman herself. Maybe I'm a dominant personality, but I think if you submit to her, she will walk all over you. Simple as.

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Your problem here with this is that the concept of playing games relies on one fact...





...That the PUA in question is so mind fuckingly boring and a-sexual; that the only reason a girl could have an interest in that person is if they keep the girl confused with strategicaly ambigious texts.

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When you are someone who realsies women WANT sex, and all you need to do to have women act on that is to provide a socialy acceptable outlet for them to express this.

Then all this intrigue and interest stuff becomes icing on the cake... nice.... but irrelevant to the core dynamic.

Good sarging isn't a game of power. It's a matter of co-operation, communication and ultimatly liberation.


Good sex similarly is the anti-thesis to control (which is the implication of power). Good sex is expressionate, not restrictive.

(Again, this is based on what I have read, experienced and as a result believe)

What Casanova meant by submitting is that he submits to the natural course of seduction while having the prerequisite realization that he does not control the seduction. It's nature. He's not making things happen; he is letting things happen. Big difference. That's not just a re-wording kind of thing.

The illusion that a PUA is actually doing some mind-control shit when he seduces a girl is just that - an illusion. He's fooling himself lol

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you there again.

Great sex will definitely keep her around for a long time even if you AFC a lot of other areas up. But high value women can get sex any day of the week from hundreds of guys. If you give her great sex, and then make yourself just unavailable enough, she will think about you and wonder where you guys stand - was she not good enough for you the last time? Why haven't you called? Are you seeing someone else? This makes her invest much more and makes her really look forward to the next time.

The longest MLTR I've had ended over the summer, and the girl is still deeply in love with me as we still keep in contact via email as she's gone back to her home country. She's deeply attached because we would have a great time, and then she wouldn't hear a word for a week, maybe more, then I'd get back in touch and we'd have another great time, then nothing. I actually didn't do this on purpose, just because I was honestly busy and was gaming other girls to. But it made her incredibly emotionally attached because she was always wondering if she'd lost me or not.

My most recent MLTR just ended, and it's been the most difficult for me to handle. The reason? She was emotionally unstable and we would have a great time, then she would call saying she was having doubts and we shouldn't see each other, then a few days later we'd meet and everything would be great again, and so forth. Even though I thought she was playing hard to get and understood exactly why I was reacting emotionally the way I was, I STILL invested heavily in the relationship because I never knew if I was about to lose her the next day or not. This was despite the fact that I was constantly seeing 2 other women! I cared about losing her so much more not because she was any hotter or smarter or more interesting, but simply because I knew that I could text the other two any time and we would meet and everything would be fun and cool and easy, but with her I had no idea if I would see her one day and she'd leave forever the next.

This is BASIC PSYCHOLOGY. If you want to keep them interested, being a challenge, being not too available, being unpredictable, etc. are all important. If you become too available, if you surrender to them, you are no longer interesting because they know they can have you any time. This is true even if the sex is great.

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That's the problem.

Your goal here is to have control. By trying to control him, you're becoming more invested in him, but in a malicious way. It sounds like he knows what he's doing, so he can use your bad judgment against you and further control you. I don't know his character, but it's just something to keep in mind.

To tie it in with what Chief quoted, rather than you trying to conquer him, you should rather submit. Yes, there's a degree of vulnerability required. You just have to suck it up and take what happens.

I'll submit my own quote (not exact, but you'll get the idea) from Sun Tzu. He states that during war, if you keep fighting nonstop, then your warriors will get tired and your weapons will blunt.

That's what you're doing. You're fighting and eventually you're going to burn out I'll agree that a good relationship can be a power struggle sometimes, in the end, it's about being an awesome team.

And I think that's what you need to do. Stop trying to "have the upper hand" and rather be in the same hand.
I think you're misinterpreting who Cass is submitting to. Cass submits to his own personal desires first and foremost. He recognizes he would like to have sex with someone and doesn't try to rationalize it, but just accepts.

He submits to other people too, it's just not a 100% personal submission. It's more of a "Hey, you want to have sex with me. I want to have sex with you too, so let's do it." thing.

I wouldnt go as far as mind control but a great amount of influence yes. Every little piece of Kino calibrated perfectly makes her feel something and I know it, I dont really feel it, but she is feeling something bc I moved my leg 2 inches on purpose, bc I touched her neck, I make her emotional mind hjack her rational mind so instead of thinking she is feeling, and she is liking it. Did I do it on purpose??? yes.
I cant comment on NLP stuff but stuff like anchoring has to have some basis as well.

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Inner game is the core, outer game is just an expression of it

Just curious, what do you say to screen for that?

And in general, I've got the girl in bed before the relationship topic is ever brought up, so no need to lie. Also I have no desire to put a lot of effort in to a girl if she's not relationship material.

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It nothing I say its all non-verbals. mainly by the amount of touch she is not only allowing but how much she is reciprocating. the more the more likely an snl but if she is excessive about the hands and not much else it is more of an potent LTR. I like to run a lot of sets so it weeds them out quick. usually girls who dont reciprocate alot(escalate with you) and want to touch hand/wrist a lot are more about LTR's. esp if their body langauge to your kino isnt showing a lot of interest compared to SNL's but the rest of them is showing tons of interest. but this is also assuming you are running purely sexual tension game or as I like to call it seduction game bc my friend runs purely value based game(alpha) and the rules are different for him. things like eye contact rules are the opposite for him.

lastly I escalate fast and well. I should b getting a k-close in 10min. after that its usually a choice between n-close and f-close, logistics a major factor in that.

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Inner game is the core, outer game is just an expression of it

Everyone lies, you even lied later on in this post (I get to that later on). What people seem to be missing here, is the white lie we tell people every single day. Its the most common lie there is. Most of the time it is harmless or fairly harmless.

Also how is pushing the right buttons to get a girl any different from manipulating a girl to get her? Manipulation may be to strong of a word for what PUA"s do, but if you look at what manipulation is and compare it to what we do the two are alike. This is not to say the girl has the free will to reject us as she certain has that option and should aways have that option. But how many times time have we game a girl that showed no real interest in us only to be able to close her?
But you did lied to her, you told her basically a white lie when she started to ask if you where dating other girls. If you did not lie you would told her upfront when she ask you the first time. But you didn't you told her instead to stop digging. That constitutes as a lie, a white one no?

Have you actually met any high value women? Hint: The notion that "high value women" are being bombarded with serious offers from people she wants to fuck in a socially acceptable setting that allows her to be sexual, is a myth.

And regardless, that thinking is tottaly faulty, one offer is NOT as good as another. She can get offered 100 times if that were the case, but if YOU are the guy she wants, then your offer matters.

You only see a peice of dog shit on the sidewalk once a fortnight, max, are you trying to tell us that this makes it more worthy as a tasty snack?
This is all speculation, most of it seems to be skewed by confusing observations with causations, slung in with some Self confirmation Bias.
So the fact that you can buy a choclate bar anytime of the day in this modern world makes you like chocolate less..?

Sure, you might appreciate it more if you couldn't get choclate 24/7, but you can get it that way..... and guess what you had during your lunchbreak yesterday?

If it's basic psychology, show some studies then, or cite a textbook in which these "basic psychological principles"* have been shown as a factor in inter-personal relationships.

To summarise: The "value" of your offer doesn't depend on whether your offer is ambigious or not. The value of your offer depends on what YOU are offering and who YOU are.

Edit: Moving through my textbooks on this as we speak, expect some studies soon.

Double Edit: Why are you assuming that you are JUST another offer of sex? Surely if you believed in yourself you'd realise that your "offer" was a one and a million offer?

This notion that your offer will get passed up like all the others seems contradictory to any notion of sexual self worth.

*Basic in which school of Psychology? Seriously though, do you know what your talking about when it comes to the last 50-80 years of psychological research? Or are you just claiming that they are "basic principles of psychology" to add weight to your claim?

@ jurupa - The command to someone to stop asking questions because they'll only get hurt cannot be a lie because commands have no truth value.

@ Fin

1. Yes I do know high value women. High or low value, women are the sexual selectors in society and have the choice. My point is not that sex will determine whether they stay with you, but that they know perfectly well that they can get it from a lot of other guys any time they want, so you have to do MORE than simply give it to them good for them to stick around.

2. My personal experiences are only adding detail to my general premise. I am not drawing my conclusions based solely on two events, only citing illustrative examples.

3. I don't need to cite a textbook to tell you that a simple premise of marketing WORKS. People want something more if they become initially interested in it, and then are told THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE IT, or that THEY MIGHT LOSE THEIR CHANCE TO GET IT. In sales it's a classic takeaway, in advertising you see tons of limited time exclusive offers, limited editions, and so forth. It's why nightclubs put up the red velvet rope and make people wait even though it's almost empty inside. It's why actors make you go through their PA or agent. It's simple supply and demand. And it's why you should NEVER MAKE YOURSELF TOO AVAILABLE. To me this is so obvious I'm amazed it's being argued against.

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1. Woah woah woah! Who's talking about "staying", if it's staying in a FB relationship, then your only real factor is good sex, outside of that attatchment and bonding are your focuses in romantic relationships.

2. Illustrative examples which are neither ecologicaly valid nor isolated in their variables.

3. So you have no evidence then....

You know what the four P's of marketing are?

Packaging.
Promotion.
Placement.
Pricing.

One of the biggest parts of marketing is making your product available and have people knowing it's available.


"Sorry sir, we only sell this car 3 days of the year... it's supply and demand"