YEP! pretty much what I was about to post til i clicked on page 2 and saw this.

attraction and comfort + sexual arousal = sex. referring to properly run game escalated to sex. Not some drunk chick or pity sex or revenge sex etc that has nothing to do with game.

routines and shit help build comfort and also interest... subtle things like eye contact, facial expressions, subtle to obvious touching, etc etc and sometimes throwing verbal cues in there with it build arousal. both are needed to run it properly. its a combination of things.. I think people that read too much stack routine after routine like its an assembly line and assume they will get paid at the end of it all... doesnt work like that. gotta remember to use all aspects.

also whoever said that naturals never used routines is wrong....

most routines and aspects of GAME are taken from the naturals and are just reconstructed and organized. the principle is the same....

u think a natural just sits down beside a 10 and she starts sucking his dick?
he says and does things... they are simpler and subtle because the confidence is already there... even if its just "you're beautiful and look fun, I wanna take you home tonight... come dance with me. a bit" is just a basic cold read but with confidence and generally naturals are bettter looking so they are used to gettin away with simple.....from a direct line like that to a naturally fun shooter game

i was doing a lot of this stuff in parts before I ever read any PUA material and was pretty successful in the past.. just being overly cocky and funny wil a lot of times just get you thee because the things you say will launch you into games and routines naturally like thumb wars over drinks or whatever... blah.

I was actually basing my comment on one of my close friend who's a natural. He totally knows what he's doing and it seems like he has developed his own kind of routines. What I think is that when you're learning to build sexual tension, you're learning to do what "naturals" like my friend do .

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I am me

I have a few friends in their 30's who are pretty freakin' good at our little game. The 3 I'm thinking of are very successful and by your average financial standards could easily retire now . . . but they're constantly working on projects.

When I ever have an opportunity to join them, I feel like I'm in a set of a movie. It's yachts, clubs, fancy cars, and a constant rotation of models that go through their city. The new girls that arrive are immediately introduced to these guys by the models who are already there. By the time the new ones have made their 3 month round and ready to move on, the next arrivals are already well 'seeded' into the network. In this setting, there's really no reason to chit chat much to get their dicks wet. In fact, there's really no reason to escalate much either. In this social network, it seems sucking face is the accepted method of greeting each other.

When you yank these guys out of this existing network, it takes some time to adjust. I've seen them receive weird looks for going sexual RIGHT AWAY. . . but eventually the desire to hook up wins over and they start from scratch. Usually, they try to convince girls that they're taxi drivers, brick layers, etc . . . but the girls can sense everything. It doesn't take too long before they're playing stinky finger.

But those guys worked to get where they are, would you call them "naturals"?

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I am me

Agreed.
Yes, which is why I wrote "typical young people" instead of "all young people". In my mind, the big difference between the older and the young is not the actual achievements, accomplishments, and values but the expectations that the World has on us. Young people get passes; we give young people time to figure things out. There are certainly many cases where clueless young people have figured their lives out later in life.

Having said that . . . from what I've seen, and in general, clueless young people are usually clueless when they're older. Solid kids usually turn out to be solid adults. Women aren't crazy. They know this . . . and this is why they gravitate towards potential as much as they gravitate towards end results.
Hell, give me his number. I'll date him.

Kasabi, i like your posts but i think about 99% of kids are clueless in their lives in some major way or another, i know you said there are many cases where clueless people become directed when theyre older but unless you mean

pretty much every kid around town. i mean no kid has experienced life enough to be solid. you'll meet the odd guy who's wanted to be a dentist since he was 6 and is on his way, theyre also the boring people.

theyre people that have been so sucked into some idea that they HAVE to do this and that, instead of sitting down just having some fun (gaming?). not all people but a lot of them are.

i mean im 19, in college and im pretty sure on what i wanna do in life (i think...) but im pretty clueless about everything in life. im just making my way as i go i guess. i mean i cant have any real plan if i havent done something before, i have a general plan. No soldier makes a battle plan without years of experience and training in that zone, until then he watches and learns by being out there and doing it.

unless i misunderstood your term of 'clueless'.

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"You don't want girls to think you suck dick at fucking pussy"
-Seth (Superbad)

2 of the 3, I have known nearly all my life. I covered a bit of this in my last post but these guys 'worked to get where they are' ALL OF THEIR LIVES. And they were this way with women since high school (as far as I know) . . . And they are STILL working at where they are and WORKING to where they will be. Every once in a while, you'll find the type of girls who have emotional needs to 'take care' of sorry, confused guys but in general, girls trip over themselves and get in line to hook up with solid, confident guys. (Very difficult to be confident if you're clueless . . .)

This reminds me of a conversation I shared with an old dude on a train in Korea back in 2000. I was in the middle of an academic program and was reading a text book. This old guy sitting next to me with long facial hair and traditional Korean garb kept staring at me then finally broke the ice with some conversation. He was happy to see that I was educating myself. He asked all sorts of questions. Birth date, place of birth, family name, etc . . . The guy traced my ancestral lineage back to 28 generations. He knew which king killed who and which prince ran away to which province to marry which girl from which noble family and gave birth to which kids, etc, etc . . .

Then the guy read my face, (yeah, just like some cheesy lounge lizard pua) he read my palms, the top of my head. And the guy offered me personal history. He knew exactly how many siblings I had. He figured out my parents' line of work. . . pretty much nailed our family dynamics and unusual events, etc . . . Finally, he tells me that I will be a wealthy business 'conglomerate'. Great!

Then he continues, ". . . When you are 50 years old."

Slightly disappointed, I asked him, "Do you mean that I have to WAIT until I am 50?!?"

Then this pleasant old man startled me with a loud "NO!!!" After brief silence, he lowered his tone and finished with a message that I'll always remember, "You don't WAIT until you're 50. You must constantly WORK towards your fate."

I apologize for jacking the thread with this silly story but I think that the old guy's message applies to all of us.

^This is honest. This is solid. Acceptance of your current state leaves room for progression. Eagerness to figure things out leads the way.

In my mind any ways . . .

Clueless = the guy who thinks he's got everything figured even if his history suggests that he doesn't.

i like that, alot. thats the best way to put it. i was trying to tell my sister about that kinda person but couldn't explain it right. i understand you now

also that wiseman you talked about sounds insane, like the oracle from the Matrix.

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"You don't want girls to think you suck dick at fucking pussy"
-Seth (Superbad)

Double thread jack, but this is too brilliant to not pile on.

Good post Chief!

I'll quote Swinggcat here on what's attraction. The way he defines it is as of "Attraction is sexual arousal plus the right perceptual filters to process it.".
The way attracton is defined by other gurus is often what he calls prizability.

But I see your point there. From what I understood doing all the DHV stories and stuff won't do shit if you don't have sexual tension. I agree.

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"Their compliance is,
'Does she grab your hand?' F*ck you! I want to grab her mind. If I can
grab her mind, she'll be grabbing whatever I want, any way I want her to." - Ross Jeffries

Ever heard of "marketing?" Why do you think MM almost monopolizes the pickup industry (meme-wise, not sole company)?
My OP was supposed to imply that the pattern I noticed with girls I've had any sort of success with was that I accidentally stumbled upon sexual tension while putting myself out there, practicing all this crap. My success beforehand wasn't because of the mainstream attraction techniques I used. In fact, whenever I fucked a girl I would ask her the classic "When did you first realize you were attracted to me?" line and I would almost always get an answer that would surprise me. I would ask girls I fucked if the discovery channel pattern I ran on them made them feel more attraction or anything, they said no. I would ask girls I fucked if the cube routine that I ran on them did anything at all to help me get them into bed, they said no, it was just "good conversation." Sometimes I would even get an answer that didn't make any sense according to the mainstream pickup view. Like, "you were nice to me."
I relaxed. I stopped pretending to be anything that I wasn't. I stopped running routines when I felt like I had to in order to get any sort of approval or supposed attraction. I allowed myself to "be myself" without worrying about anything. I basically did that thing girls and naturals tried to tell me to do when I was an AFC: "just be yourself."

That's only half of the equation, though. The other half? Sexual tension. Communicating/subcommunicating that I'm a very sexual person.

I could even say supplicative, Humble & Not-funny things if I felt like it and it still wouldn't count against me. I could DLV as much as I wanted to and I'd still get the girl.

And, today, my "method" boils all the shit down to just a few key essential elements, including but not limited to compliance, arousal, and lowering ASD. Check out my Outer Game guide for more info: chiefs-guide-to-outer-game-vt75887.html

As Socrate once said : "I know that I know nothing" . Assuredly one of the greatest line to ever be said.

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I am me

Well can anyone explain how this shit works i have ready his books. And he say things that confuse me alot. Well if a girl ask me something do I respond or shouldnt respond so i wont break the sexual tension, if its legitim question not a test

That's a stylistic choice on your part. For example, 60 doesn't use push/pull but some PUAs use push/pull to heighten sexual tension over a little longer period of time.

Not talking at all would be fucking weird, though.