Im not surprised at the defensiveness thats coming out here as for a lot of people finding out, looser + a few witty lines....is still a looser.

Most asholes are ALOT more genuine than these nice guys, the asshole is just an asshole, its the way he is, for whatever reason he became that way, most 'nice' guy's are being 'nice' to get something, it is NOT being 'nice' when you are only doing it to get something from someone, be that sex or anything else, it is often complete supplication....an honest asshole will be 10 times more attractive.

Then the nice guys realise that being 'nice' didn't work...sweet fuck all has changed....now their trying to be assholes to get something and still have little success, OR there trying to tell storeys to make people believe they have accomplished something and try to project the qualities that successful people project, but they cant back it up because they haven't actually achieved anything.

ANY delusion is running from reality and have no about about this, reality will come crashing down on you sooner or later. for example, the nice guys delusion that he is 'nice' and the world is evil, or hell, even the pua who has no value and trys to pretend that he dose, i like the points kasabi makes, as often he preaches against delusion and pretending(frequently a breath of fresh air in the community) which obviously causes great offence to people who have spent a lifetime deluding themselves and pretending there something their not.

The first point of actually achieving something that you can derive some genuine value from seems more sensible than than pretending.

The second point of having genuine value and then being able to express yourself, being able to see something you want and take it, sure you need ways to do this and this is where real game comes in, making the stage as simple and drama free as you can, rather than using 'game' to pretend to be something and attract that one girl or get low quality chicks to fall for an even bigger looser than they normally fall for.

'People are always blaming circumstances for what they are. I don't believe in circumstances. The people who get ahead in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want, and if they can't find them, make them.' —George Bernard Shaw

Come on . . . this is a reach. If you're targeting the local cum queen and you and hand her a flower and she snickers, you could say that you targeted the wrong girl . . .or you could also say that you used the wrong method. Same argument can be made for anything in PU.
I hope not. In fact, my intentions are exactly the opposite. Plenty guys are delusional enough already thinking that if they run a "solid game", that they should be able to pick up just about any chick. Telling themselves "She doesn't know what she's missing" is exactly what so many do already. What I am suggesting is that being aware of yourself are and being aware of your target and your places in the World will open up more possibilities. This community is filled with hard rules. It would be sad to allow some hard rules made up by some guy who's managed to increase his sex to jack-off ratio by a few lines he learned through some pick up manual to change your future for the worse. This of course, depends on your goals. What's more important to you?

Do you want to run the same asshole routine to 20 chicks and receive blow jobs from 15 of the insecure, traumatized chicks of the bunch while missing out on SOLID girls? Or do you want to STILL be able to receive all the bj's from the cum queens you face AND still be able to recognize well balanced chicks and run a game that suits them for potential LTR's?
I don't think this trait has much to do with game.
I wrote in my initial post that for the guy to be the RIGHT PERSON for this method, he has to be a winner. A nice loser is still a loser. Girls seem to dig honest winners.


My point is not that a confident guy can pull a girl HE wants. My point is that a confident guy can pull just about any girl who has a loving, solid family history and has a sense of self value thorugh honest displays of affection. A confident guy who goes flowers/traditional with the local BJ queen would probably still get a blow job after some work but would initially face the initial, habitual snicker.
My point again is not that showering girls with gifts will get you vagina. My point is that FLOWERS and honest displays of affection are traditional methods of triggering emotions and it will go a long way if done with the right girl, the right way, the right time, and of course, if you're the right guy.

And be honest . . . with your initial example, did you display "honest affection" or did you shower her with I love you this and I love you that . . . (These are gross lies made up by lonely, desperate DICKS hoping to get lucky) Actually, these gross lies aren't even made up by lonely dicks. Guys typically plagiarize material from sappy movies.

I agree with everything you wrote. However, this is a PICK UP FORUM. Thus for me anyways, I'd like to first see people succeed with PICK UP. This is the priority. If 'acting' allows people to succeed than so be it. However, there are some problems with this route:

#1 Nobody here is Robert Di Nero. Most can't even 'act' through written language, what chances do they have out in the field? If 'acting' and 'faking' is your route, than at the very least take some acting classes! There are no short cuts, even if the goal is to fake your way through life.

#2. Even if you're a great actor AND you've managed to convince yourself that you are what you are not, it is nearly impossible to continue to convince others that you are wearing an "invisible robe". If it's not there, it's not there. The truth will always catch up to you.

ha now at least this is getting interesting, agreed. u make a valid point

Your right there are prolly many idiots running around with some PU skills that think to themselves the girl doesnt know what she's missing. There inner game is not what it should be, and this needs to be corrected.

Hard rules are subjective of what a person wants. A person may people able to be more efficent using hard rules, but hard rules come at the price of less risk. If the rules work and a person sticks with them thats their choice whether to vear off the path.
I dont think those questions are personally directed at me but PU to me is to enhance and better myself, and it allows me to have special experience that will be valauable to me once I graduate with my psych degree. Also I like to be good at it to teach others and to show guys its not impossible to go from nothing to everything.
if this is directed at me idk bc you are using you(second person) and it could just be an example but i personally dont run routines and I do see the solid girls who are potential LTR when running my PU. In the first 10 min I gauge whether this is a potential LTR or a SNL(blowjob queen). I dont care for a relationship rite now so I usually eject from the Pot LTR and find an SNL blowjob girl.
idk what your getting at here.

yah thanks I was having my own epiphany on that while I was writing and was throwing my previous thought of social conditioning out the window.
Yes, I should prolly actually void that example though because she was going threw some depression, hospitalized(mentally) even. I just wasnt a man and didnt take control bc I was fighting myself between knowing I shouldnt date her bc she needs to be better first and wanting her, lets just say it was a mess and nothing made sense back then. Just a bad situation that lasted a long time

and nice post nate

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Inner game is the core, outer game is just an expression of it

I do wish you'd post more kasabi. I know we haven't agreed sometimes but I like the different way you see things and back up your points, they;re interesting reads.

Well, your statements kinda assume alot from what I'm reading....

1. Not looking to get married/LTR. Been cheated on enough by "good girls" to not want this. I've seen it from the other side too, women in relationships often times (OFTEN, as in not always, there are a few good girls out there) aren't much harder to get than those who are single. I also prefer shorter relationships, meeting and exploring new women is a passion and a hobby.
2. You assume every man has his own personal beauty waiting out there for him? This is a competition for scarce goods bro and doin it old school (fights and whatnot) gets you jail time now a days, either that or settling for a fatty.
3. I'm not looking for a gamble of "oh does this girl think im good enough?" if I can influence how she thinks about me I will. Before you call me wrong or immoral or whatever for that remember that women have been doing that forever.

I think the only way to do things the traditional way is to go for a girl in another country not as influenced by western society and feminism. Not that I dislike feminism or the state of women's rationals as they exist today, just saying its a different day and a different game.

Are you assuming that I wrote this thread specifically for you?
So you'd be the "wrong guy" for this method. No need for drama.
Fighting is old school pick up?
Yes, wrong women have been doing this forever and will continue to educate their daughters for generations to come.
Having traveled more than most, I can tell you that 'feminism and western culture' influence has very little to with emotional wiring in women. Feminism is a logical decision. Attraction, as mentioned in this thread several times, is more of an emotional surrender. In order for psychological responses to shift, significant emotional experiences need to occur. Standing up for social and professional rights will hardly make a dent on the type of guys a girl would like to fuck.

Kasabi.

You mentioned hard rules.. I'd like to pick your brains on why you feel those rules are there.

People needing some sort of solid catch all rule, as oppossed to having to believe that there are random elements in every scenario? Something else maybe?

Awesome!

Just to go back to your original post, simply awesome!

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

It seems to me that:

To the newbie for anything in life, everything seems random. For example, a kid sees a few guys picking up chicks in a bar for the first time and thinks, “Wow . . . what just happened?”

To the aspiring beginner for anything in life, there is a perception of rules and order. The kid will read a few books and figure out that there is an open, some sort of routine, and a close. He gets the idea that through interaction, he can create attraction.

To the inspired practitioner for anything in life, hard rules exist. After some practice, he’ll figure out, “Don’t EVER BUY CHICKS DRINKS!” . . .”WAIT 2 DAYS BEFORE CALLING!” etc . . etc . . .

Now these ‘hard rules’ aren’t baseless. I get a kick out of hearing the reasoning behind all these rules because they seem to make so much sense. Actually, I tend to follow plenty of these rules myself. However, these rules are generic rules that are taught by a few to a mass audience. These are rules that ‘should’ work for most people, in most situations, for most girls.

I would like to think that as one becomes more accomplished in ANYTHING in life, he becomes more intuitive and less self-limiting to a set of generic rules. It’s difficult to view the World as an individual, let alone interact with it with some soul unless one allows to see the uniqueness in every situation.

You can absolutely grab yourself a caulk gun, stick an all-purpose acrylic caulk in it, and basically fix an entire house. . . or you can think about it, take the time, and treat each crack, hole, bubble, split, and imperfection accordingly. What caused the imperfection? What type of solution will function and look the best? What type of solution will last the longest? Sometimes the answer is the all-purpose acrylic caulk. Sometimes it’s not . . .

^Thanks for correcting me; "Scum" is a poor choice of words but I'm not sure if you read my post correctly. I would say that very, very few young 'sexually liberated and free' women are this way due to a heightened level of self awareness and self esteem. In fact, it's usually the opposite.