Hi,

I hope this is the right place for a topic like this.

It's something I've been with a while and I hope to get some advice about it over here.
I hope my English isn't too bad, I'm not used to talk about things like this in English

So It's about a Girl. I've met her in the summer of 2005. We both were 14 at the time and became a couple. When I look back at it now, it was childish, but yeah 14 years old... Nothing sexually ever happened, except kissing. She dumped me after more or less one year. When I look back now I know perfectly why, but I hadn't had a clue back then. Ofcourse we decided 'to stay friends'. That's when I got an ex that was also my best friend :-/


It allmost killed me emotionally, especially when she got a new boyfriend and everything went 100 times better and more serious with him then it ever had been with me. I still wasn't aware that I was spoiling every chance of being back together by acting jealous, depressed, angry, ... By then I was 16

After one year or so I finally started to gain self-confidence, go out a lot, had lots of fun etc. I was in my last year of highschool and it was probably one of the best years of my life. I still had a strange sort of love/hate relationship with this girl.

Then I started to read about PUA, seduction, mystery etc. More out of interest then really wanting to try it. I wasn't really looking for a relationship. But It taught me a lot about girls and about myself. I started to understand what I did wrong all those years. Finally

I stopped acting like this girl was everything to me, I 'negged' her constantly etc. I also stopped initiating conversation with her every time she got online on msn, that sort of things.
Doing this made me feel lots better.

I also belief it changed how she looked at me. When I went to a bar with her in one of her friends (I was bored and she asked me to come with her, I spent some time with them and then went to another bar where my friends were boozing). She was telling her friend about her boyfriend and what was wrong with him and that she didn't like him anymore etc. Then she asked me if we could be back together again. I denied. I still don't know how serious she was/wanted to be. (that's why I'm here)
This was in march or april this year.

By now she has dumped her boyfriend since 6 months. She has been seeing another guy, but I don't think he want's her.

Now, since a couple of months, When we meet, we act a bit like a couple, which confuses me.
We walk holding-hands or with our arms around each other's back, we cuddle a lot, and while watching a movie she usually lies in my arms.

I'm not really in love with her anymore, but I enjoy it.

So I wanted to know you guys opinion about this. Friend zone yes/no, any chance of getting her back, ...

Thanks for reading and looking forward to your advices,

Tekkie

What exactly is your question? I know you wrote "friendzone yes/no, any chance of getting her back" but... did some other person write everything that came before that?

Are you in the friendzone? She asked if she could get back together with you.

Any chance of getting back together with her? Again, she asked if she could get back together with you *and* you said no.

Don't take this the wrong way, but have you considered that your feelings towards this girl might be coming from a desire to feel validated in your new found confidence? Your post itself doesn't seem like a genuine request for help, rather it seems to be one of those posts that you wanted to write for another reason and then realized that it wouldn't make sense to post it without asking a question of some sort. From what I read, you learned how to present yourself more attractively (although I suspect it's more mimicry than substance, you're on the right track), she re-checked her assumptions about you and pursued you, and you shut her down. Now she's attracted (probably even more so due to your rejection of her) and spending time in proximity with you, maybe in hopes that you'll change your mind. If anyone should be on here asking about being in the friend zone, it's her. So ask yourself, why did you post what you did?

I'm not suggesting this to try and cut you down, but instead I'm pointing it out in hopes that it might help you learn something about your situation. Be wary of the pursuit of women in connection with your sense of self worth, or security in your choices. While women are awesome and can be downright blissful a man can't feed his sense of self from them, he could stuff his face from dawn until dusk and still starve.

I do love my metaphors, good luck man.

-Edit-

I re-read your post and think I might have found a legit question in there, but I stand by what I wrote before. If your question is:

"Is she seriously interested, or just checking if you'll come when she calls"

Then my answer is, there is no way to tell. It depends on what kind of a person she is, and you're in the best position to judge that. If you're curious, make a move on her and see where it goes. The fact that she hung around after you rejected her first request tells me that she's probably at least a little interested (beyond trying to stroke her ego) but there's only way to find out.

Hi,

thanks for your answer !

At the time she asked, she was still with her boyfriend and I had the impression she was joking with me (also because her friend sat next to us). I also did not want to look needy again, so saying no seemed like the 'safest' option.

Point is, I can't really believe that she want's me back. As I said, by now I grew more confident, have more fun, etc. But I never get much female attention. (because I don't look that good I guess, working on that one ).

And yeah I didn't have a real question in my SP. In fact I want to know what she thinks/feels but that's indeed something strange to ask.
So yeah to me clear what I would like to know you guy's opinion about is :
am I friendzoned?
Do I have a chance?
What should I do next when I see her?

-edit-

Just read your edit and also reread your initial reply.

Everything I write here is just me, no other persons. I just had difficulties formulating what I wanted to ask

Attraction is indeed the word. I don't know whether or not she is attracted to me (although she sometimes behaves like it). When we see each other or when we text, I think it is mostly me who initiates this. Probably a bit my 'job' as a 'man', and she isn't taking initiative on other things btw. But it confuses me.

And I think(hope) you are wrong about me wanting validation. There are enough girls who would be a lot easier to receive validation from.
And don't get me wrong, I said I'm more confident then I was, but I'm still pretty shy. It's just that I'm not the colorless kid that I was anymore.

I also think I asked her about her asking me to become a couple again, and she replied something like "I don't know". (Something she answers often when talking about 'difficult' topics. Quite annoying btw). I somewhat feel it wasn't a big deal to her.

I also kissed her goodbye once on her lips after a party (I was drunk). And she immediately said it was no problem, I even hadn't apologized yet.

It really feels pretty stupid thinking about every little thing she does or say. But It's nice to write about it and finally getting some advice. Talking about this to friends irl is not easy.

Thanks !
Tekkie

My pleasure man.
Ah, the fact that she said this in front of her friend is relevant. I interpret it to mean that she is either not serious at all, or very serious. However, I think your reaction points to an area you can meditate on. Strive to reach the point where you don't worry about how you 'seem', but rather are confident about who you are. If you truly aren't needy, it will show in everything you do.
You seem like a genuine dude, don't be surprised when the female attention starts to ramp up. Attractiveness really compounds once you start getting things in order.
Why don't you feel you look that good? If by working on it you mean fitness + fashion, then nice work man, you're definitely on the right track.
Let's not get bogged down in terminology here, the 'friend zone' is where you have romantic/sexual interest in a girl and don't show it, choosing instead to act as if you are only interested in friendship.

The trick here is to figure out what you want. Do you want this girl sexually/romantically? If so, then I say take the next opportunity where you have some privacy and ramp up the kino you already have going on. The next time you're taking a stroll holding hands, pull her aside, triangular gaze, and kiss her. She'll either be receptive or she won't. A man can never be friend zoned unless he allows it to happen, but he must be willing to be rejected if that's the way things go.

Whatever you decide, don't waffle, she will follow your lead if you're strong enough to take it. Nothing infuriates/turns off women more than a man that isn't sure of himself and his actions. So get past the 'I can't believe she might want me back' mindset, and open yourself up to something in between 'she might want me she might not' and 'her passion will never burn for another man as it does for me'. Remember, when you change the way you look at things, things change.

There's always a chance, just don't become too invested in the outcome. If you can reach a place in your mind and heart where you are truly open to the possibility that nothing will happen with this girl, then you're ready to make a move on her.

What should you do next? It depends on what you want. If you want her, show it, and see what happens. If you don't, then enjoy your friendship as it stands and move on to the many, many other women that populate this wonderful world.

Hi,

Yeah I don't look that good mainly because I'm too fat. But now I live on my own so I eat healthier (If you don't buy sweets you can't eat them ) and I do fitness now too.

And yeah fashion, I'm too lazy to work on that everyday but It will improve

I'm pretty sure my self-confidence will rise as it did in the past few years. I'm not really bothered by that anymore.


A last thing that got into my mind :
I once tried to kiss her. We came from the cinema where we were pretty close during the movie, and we walked to my car holding hands. At my car I gave her a hug en put my arms on her waist. I wanted to kiss her but she seemed to put her head in every direction except mine so a romantic kiss was virtually impossible. She was also talking about all sorts of nonsense that really didn't matter.
Pretty strange explanation probably, but that's how it felt.
After this we went for a drink and we were again very close.

This also adds to the feeling that I'm not really attracting her. But at the other hand, I would not be holding hands or cuddle with a girl that does not attract me? But I don't think you can really compare male and female thinking lol.

And yeah I think I really want her romantically ... Sorta hurts to admit to myself. But I need to learn to love someone without thinking that I can't live without. That is certainly true.

Could you give me some advice on "ramp up the kino" and "triangular gaze"? I'm still pretty unexperienced..
Hope I got the balls to try it when I see her again.

thanks again man !

Totally awesome, keep doing what you're doing.
I'm not going to read into this too much, both because it's really context sensitive and it's a good opportunity to demonstrate that things are only a big deal if you make them a big deal. Conclusion: don't worry about this, I would go as far to say "pretend it didn't' happen" but there's no need to pretend, it's that insignificant.
When you can stand on your own with confidence and happiness, you will have more people (and women) in your life than you know what to do with. It's so counter intuitive, but once you start to experience it, you understand how being satisfied with your own life gives the the ability to be generous and warm without ulterior motive and without compromising your self respect. The end result is someone who can be honest and forthright with his intentions (part of what makes the typical "asshole" successful with people) and still make those around him feel good (part of the typical "nice guy", minus all the manipulation).

You already understand where you're headed, continue to persevere and the wisdom will come through experience. More importantly, enjoy yourself, every step of the way
Have you ever heard of an escalation ladder? It refers (in this case) to an escalation of physical touch. The reason it's called a ladder is to reinforce the idea that the escalation comes in a series of steps, rather than one large step. For example, you generally don't go from shaking a girls hand to inserting your penis into her vagina. There's touching that happens in between. You're already in a situation with this girl where you two touch each other regularly, what I mean by "ramp up" is to continue to touch in a progressively sexual way. Let's not get too worried about that for the time being, right now you want to kiss her (sometimes I forget that you might not be at an age where sex is the end goal, at least for now)

You put your arms around her waist before when you tried to kiss her. That's good, both for logistics (you have to be facing her, more or less, to kiss her) and because touching a woman's hips is very sensual, most people don't touch her hips unless things are getting hot, it helps put her in a sexy state of mind.

The next time you want to make a move on her, make sure there has been some less direct touching beforehand, touch her hands, her arms, maybe brush her hair back out of her face with your hand or rest your arm around her shoulders (this is called "the claw" always makes me chuckle). The key here is to go relatively smoothly from these more or less innocuous touches to when you kiss her, but don't worry about executing a series of steps, seduction isn't a video game, it isn't even an art (in my opinion) it's something primal, it's inside of you.

Get in touch with the part of yourself that wants to feel the smooth fabric of her clothes against her skin. Put your hands on her hips, slide them behind to the small of her back, pull her in closer to you. Touching women is fun! It feels good, and they want to be touched! Pull her all the way into a hug and smell her hair, feel the softness of her cheek brush against yours. Then pull back, and "triangular gaze" for a moment. This is when you look at the one of her eyes, than the other one, and then down to her lips. Because you're so close together your eyes will move a fair bit and she'll see that you're looking at her lips, in effect you're stating your intent but in sensual way. Few things get a woman fired up more than the idea that her attractiveness is calling out to that animal inside you*, the one that wants to touch her, to taste her lips.

Then slowly but deliberately move in and kiss her, if she tries to relieve the tension by making a joke or something else**, ignore it. Take one of your hands and move it up her back to the back of her neck under her hair, hold her pressed up against you and enjoy the awesome experience that kissing is.


---Wow that got long in a hurry, Addendum to follow---

*If the guy that their gorgeousness is calling out to, is attractive. If he's gross, the sensation is more akin to annoyance or down right repulsion. She's not getting wet thinking about the bum at the train station losing his self control and succumbing to her beauty, she wants a hot man.

**There is a very fine line between confidently ignoring token resistance and forcing yourself on someone. If she ever directly tries to move away from you, or tells you to stop (sometimes this might be a semi-serious request, where she really doesn't want you to stop, but for now err on the side of thinking she's serious), you stop immediately. You don't need to apologize or make a big deal out of it, if she's legitimately not interested then it's a good opportunity to demonstrate that you're OK with yourself and your own life, and her rejection isn't going to drive you into a rage or a well of depression and insecurity.

OK thanks for your advice again !

She has just told me that she's together now with a boy from her class:-/ . He tried to kiss her last week, and apparently they are a couple now... They already had a row, he cried 3 times and she told me she liked it better when they were just friends ... It's really sad for him in fact, and a bit fucked up for me too ...

But she is coming to my dorm (a bit different from the USA, during the week I live in a house with 7 other students. We have our own room but share bathroom and kitchen. During the weekend I go home.) and I think I'll just act as if nothing happened, and try to do what you told me.

I also talked with her on msn about boyfriends/girlfriends. I told her I like girls which are a bit more emotional then I am, and that I don't want girls to be hilarious. She immediately tried to convince me that she was like that. Pretty good sign I think. We 'll see what happens sunday. Despite everything I got more confident about this.

What you mentioned after the two *'s is pretty obvious. I try to stay a gentleman at all times, not some sort of freak

Tekke