True when I was new I didn't think about that though. I fell for the "how much have you already spent on women? paying for dates? buying flowers? why not buy our programme an get any girl you want". Maybe it was me, maybe I was just an idiot lol, oh well.

All good points. Most new guys don't know what they're paying for though, cos these "gurus" talk shit like "this will work for anybody" and "you will get any girl you want".

Nice one I agree with you. Everyone should figure it out for themselves rather than following a method completely. Some girls do give good advice too. I often ask girls what made them like me or other guys they like.

I hate 'negging' too, I never do it unless a girl is being a bit of a bitch. I don't even call it 'negging'. This is another thing I hate about pick-up, silly words. KClose and Fclose... what the fuck is that all about? Why not just say "kiss" or "fuck"? Lol...

There's a wealth of information here that is free. I personally don't understand bootcamps unless you feel totally lost, but its going to take more than a pickup bootcamp to fix that, that is an issue with the way you are living your life. If you have some decent friends, I think that is just as good as any bootcamp.


As far as the concept of pedestal-replacement, that is your discretion. Yes girls are irresponsible, they have all the flaws we do. They are at a social advantage because our very nature forces them to be social and learn quickly about men. An attractive woman will, 9/10 times, be more social because of this. Find a HB7+ with less than 100 facebook friends, it only happens when they are fake accounts or have a controlling boyfriend. Its not our job to make up for a girl's shortcomings or excuse them for their bullshit, a neg is a powerful tool because it puts us in the position of power, and they like that. Enablers and excusers get friendzoned. Some people hear "be an asshole" and think it means just that, but the truth is that most of us were programmed to think charming a woman and agreeing is how you get on her good side, thus inside. I like the social network tagline "you don't get to 500 million friends without making a few enemies." Being an asshole really means be you and be unapologetic about it. Sometimes being a true asshole works, hence their success, but its not the fact they are mean spirited that gets them what they want.

Take for example what you said about girls being flakes and not building enough attraction. Apply the fact they have hundreds of friends, half of them she probably smelled them out to be enabling tail-chasers, you really have to make an impression to get yourself out of that category.
Men have to do the approaching. Not always true, I've been approached a good amount of times simply by using a few simple rules. Well-executed eye contact, a smile, and bam. Women don't have to learn pickup because most of their life has been spent on brushing off unwanted pickups, they have options. Us, on the other hand, are trying to increase our options, which makes us more desirable (a rich get richer sort of idea). This is why it can be seen as a double standard, but its really not. If you have options, you are as social as most women are, and there you can level with them if not totally surpass them.

_________________
The best PUA advice is also the best fighting advice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ijCSu87 ... rn-1r-4-HM

Me neither! I think a lot of pick-up guys overcomplicated everything with all these fancy routines and DHV stories. "You have to open with an opinion opener, ignore the girl you like, throw her three negs and wait for her to touch her hair before you give her an SOI". Bollocks.

Thats true but also don't forget the keyboard jockeys who like to copy other people's material and pass it off as their own, and brag on these forums and give out advice so that guys will think they're awesome,when really they don't know shit.

I agree with most of what you're saying

The flaking? I hate that. If a girl will make plans to see you she should be responsible and organise herself enough to turn up. Maybe that's just be, but I can't be arsed with flakey people, no matter how many friends they have or how hot they are.

And the idea of being an asshole... There are guys who teach people to specifically be an asshole to get women. They have the wrong idea of what it means, and they must know it's bullshit, but they still sell it.

I disagree, women give shitty advice. I used to throw out there that you should never take advice from a woman, I got some shit for it, but I also got them in bed later on. Then again, another tool I try to implement is "make statements". Its commanding, the women will want to respond especially if they disagree. What makes you sound more authoritative? "I need to ask a woman", or, "I know exactly what to do"? If you know the woman likes something that you don't, let her know how much you think its garbage! She could have been raised to hate your favorite football team, but she can't help but love your honesty. I've had that happen, a woman literally said she loved my honesty, and then me, right after I told her that what she likes most is worse than herpes.

You can't take everything so seriously, and that is a downfall of much of "pua". People will say neg here, do this, do that, but if you are an individual, you don't have to. We are not the same, we have differences and naturally we should enjoy pointing them out. People who don't know anything about pickup can get stuck in their head, and then they learn some pickup, and they get stuck in their head again with a new set of ideas and paranoia. Its why I hate canned game, but I respect people like Mystery who come off natural. I cringe when people rehash things that aren't theirs and you can tell. They aren't truly enthusiastic about it, they don't really care what a woman thinks about the opinion opener, they just want to get their foot in the door. They are missing out on the experience of getting to know someone. Its supposed to be enjoyable, not a job, not a step-by-step procedure. Yes, there are things you have to do, like get her attracted in a more-than-friends way, pickup can help a little bit there, but if you're honest with yourself, there's no need for a seminar and 20 DVD box set on what to do if she says this, that, and the third.

_________________
The best PUA advice is also the best fighting advice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ijCSu87 ... rn-1r-4-HM

Hey... I just read what you wrote about me in another thread and I just want to say that you've got me all wrong. I'm no troll, and I'm not bitter. I just hate to see people being misled and scammed.

I agree with you on being honest. I'm always very honest, I think it's weak to be anything different than honest, which is why I dislike a lot of stuff taught in pick-up, such as opinion openers and trying to tell a story to make a girl like you. It's just the same as an AFC agreeing with everything a girl says, still saying what you think she wants to hear rather than what you actually think. That stuff is weak.

And that's exactly how I feel about it. I can't stand canned game, or guys that try to tell you if you buy their DVDs and do it perfectly you can have whatever girl you want.

YOU SHOULD GO AND POST THIS ON PUAHATE.COM, it is a more suitable place for this thread....

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V3nu

HAHAHAHAHA FUCK THAT
advanced form of ass kissing??? are you fucking kidding me
ive had girls fall in love with me without wasting A DIME
ive had girls fall in love with me from turning my damn shoulder
this shit is not a Scam its a life improving life skill that every man in the world of uprising women should have

we are taught by media to be that charming prince, by taking her out to dinner but that woman is BORED
and your being a pussy if you think this shit isn't working

BECAUSE THE ONLY WAY IT WOULDN'T IS IF YOU HAVEN'T TRIED IT

Well I thought the original post was troll-like, seeing as you go by the moniker "twatface" with 1 post totally flaming pickup. But, you put way too much thought into it to be a troll.

When I first found pickup, I read a lot of stuff for a couple weeks, watched a few vids. I found a guy named "Ratisse" and I really liked his style. Very inspiring stuff. The first night I went "in-field", I didn't care about openers and methods and all that jazz (partially because I forgot and was just genuinely excited about enjoying a get-together), I just greeted people and tried to have a good time. The only thing I was conscious about was my body language. I always had terrible posture and didn't realize that influenced how women saw me. All the stuff I read about negs, I didn't actively use them, I used them on accident, and realized afterward what I had done. That's how I learned why people say to use negs. The "negs" were a natural occurrence of me being me. I don't like telling people to neg because its artificial and requires your brain's energy to get off-course and out of your zone. This is also why alcohol helps a lot of people's game, it makes them be honest, candid, and outgoing, aka having character. When people say "just be confident", it will get brushed off as a bullshit cop-out, but there is a lot to the word "confident". Its not poking your chest out and crushing beer cans on your head. Reading too much pickup can be a game-hurter. You get too wrapped up in pickup, and not in having fun, which is what always, always, always works.

Now to contradict what I just said, this was an article I read a long time ago. Its food for thought. http://www.seductionbase.com/seduction/ ... y/209.html

You don't have to read it all, but remember when you were a kid in school. You loved recess, going outside and kicking the ball around. You genuinely had fun and you weren't stuck in your head. You weren't worried if your personality was this or that. That is game. Everyone is different and some people might benefit from memorizing things, knowing when to neg and all that shit, but it honestly doesn't work for me. Different strokes for different folks.

_________________
The best PUA advice is also the best fighting advice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ijCSu87 ... rn-1r-4-HM

I could agree that some of the material out there are scams. However, as a successful practicioner of several of the methods, I know the material is genuine. I can tell by my results. When I approach a woman now, it's as if I "see the matrix". I see what is occuring underneath, I notice things I would have never noticed before. Of course anyone who would claim that "in 7 simple steps you can have 9's and 10's on you in just 30 days!!". But if your foolish enough to fall for that, you shouldn't be allowed to learn anything prosperous anyway .

I'm not talking about the whole of pick-up, I'm talking about a lot of the methods. They say "be alpha" and to take her off of her pedestal and stuff like that, and then they give you a load of openers, DHVs, routines, negs, disqualifiers... all that stuff, and tell you that you have to use them perfectly to get the girl. So you go to the girl and yeah she looks great but she's a complete bitch. So you use your openers and stuff, you try your best to say your negs and routines at the right time... And they come up with "advanced techniques"... You're still doing just as much as a normal guy. Maybe you're not spending as much money on traditional dates, that's pretty cool, but still you're trying your best to give the girls what they want, say the right thing etc. just like the traditional nice guy. There are some good methods out there, but I don't understand why you would want to use a method like that, this is what I mean by an advanced form of ass kissing.

Yeah... I can see why you'd think I was a troll. Again I'm not talking about all of pick-up, but most of what is taught and sold. There are some great guys who give good advice too, but a lot I think just makes you a lot worse, especially when guys read too much and get confused at the complicated "techniques".

I've actually never had a lot of success with anything artificial, canned or techniques that are taught and used to deliberatley manipulate a girl's interest (negs, DHV stories, disqualifiers etc.) and I don't think many people do. The only time when I've really had success has been when I've been completely honest, and stopped giving a shit what people think. I know sometimes guys need routines and stuff as kind of training wheels because when they start out they have no idea how to interact with a girl whatsoever, but I dislike how they're taught to act like something they're not. I hate the saying "fake it til you make it". Guys are taught to focus on the routines and what to say to a girl rather than working on themselves first. It's backwards.