Don't forget about women, as more and more women are getting into positions of power and I doubt they are going to act any differently than the guys from the big picture standpoint. As to why people don't treat others equally, the answer to that really is because we are not equal to start with. Ya its politically correct to say that women should be equal to men, but in reality they are not and never will be. Nor will men ever to equal to women. Women get paid less, but the courts favor women more than men. One may say such things actually balance out because for one wrong there is a right that favors the other side.

It seems forgotten here that it is value that men need, they need to make more money they need to get to the top, why do they need to get to the top? for more value. why more value? so they can get a hot girl more easily

hypothetically speaking perhaps more men are still on top in business and politics now bc they need to be, its more important for a man to get up there. For a woman getting blessed with good looks can get them way farther up the value chain way faster by simply being stunning. try not to take offense melissa its not supposed to be offensive just truthful.

As times change though maybe this will change, maybe reverse chivalry will happen and women will start opening the door for us men, paying for the dates etc. But actually I'm lying to much psychology prevents this men need to be on top, when a guy is with a hot chick everyone wonders what he has, If a hot dude is with an ugly chick ppl either dont care or go wtf.
Men and women will remember an attractive women's face more than a not attracive womens face but men nor women will remember an attractive men's face better than a non attractive face.

the studies go on and on about how we cannot be equal and the top of the chains in the world will couple off as highest value man=to hottest woman
A study to break this value man=hot chick theory I will say b4 someone else says it. would say that men and women date each other predominatly within a 1 point sway either way of attractivenss, but to break that finding another study shows that a dude with a hot chick will be rated as more attractive, her hotness makes him hotter thus voiding any study trying to measure a couples attractiveness because the woman's looks influence how the man is percieved.

bah we are getting off topic though.

_________________
Inner game is the core, outer game is just an expression of it

Much alpha thanks for the good words Ezo.

You made a major point too about men finding it harder to find girls.

And I'd read in the community that only about 5% of me get the women.

Thats so true Ezo.

It's so dam hard for men to mee women,lay women,etc.

But some women have men on standby.

It doesnt take much for a woman to get banged if she want to.

Even so-called 5's can get laid regularly and does.

A Brad Pitt or Will Smith look alike would still have to scratch and sniff for some booty or hope to get lucky.

Another major point Ezo about equality with the sexes;we all say it but it's a different story if it happens.

Melissa's cool but I've always felt turned off by the whole womens' movement mindset because I think it's driven by inecurity.

If a chicc's a Femenists,be it all the way.

But dont ramble on about it yet still being promiscuous and banging bad boys(lol).

I mean that for any women in general.

Wow,Ezo being polyamorous(lol)and a male whore(lol)!!

I knew that already.

But Melissa,sorry for coming off too macho.As Ezo said,Im really a good guy when it come to the way I treat women.

Thank also to Poeticlyskuac for checcing out the post and liking it.

Jurupa made a major point too about if the girlfriend is getting what he need out of the relationship,it lowers the chances of her cheating.

I recently downloaded a free podcast of Savoy(of Mystery Methods or Love Systems-I think)and he was saying the same thing Jurupa was.

Hey Jelly,Im starting to think you're psychologist(lol).

You got some chillingly nice concepts we should all pay attention to.

Jelly also eluded to some BS too that guys have to tango with-like having to have to pay for the dates,drinks,etc.

P.S. I take no offense Melissa so go easy on Ezo please.

I think it was Jurupa who made another great point that if women were to take over(metaphorically),they would be the same as the men of power are.

I can buy that.

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I hate to admit it but your right with this post haha
but please paragraph better , So its easier to read

Hey thank Zappo for enjoying th pot.

I'll deal with the paragrphing from now on.

Im posting from my palm treo smart phone but it apparently isnt that smart(lol).

I'd use a different web browser tto rectify this.

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Jurupa, when I say that men and women are equal, I don't mean idenitical, but simply equal in rights and dignity. I do not believe that women should be on the front lines of combat, although I do believe that women should have to register for the draft (technically, I believe that different fitness standards for men and women should be abolished and replaced with one standard for all; if women don't qualify for combat work, there are still positions that they can hold which would free up more ppl who do quality to fight). The courts absolutely do not favour women--there's an appallingly low ratio of rape convictions in relation to the number that are reported. For some reason, women are still blamed for somehow enticing their attacker, particularly when wearing 'provocative' dress. Men have even been found not guilty because the woman involved was proven to either have an interest in group sex or fantasies relating to forced sexual encounters.

Family courts do disproportionately favour women in divorce, and I would argue that father's rights should be better protected than they are, but two wrongs do not make a right. Saying that women's lower pay is compensated by a bias towards them in the court room is ludicously wrong--there are two wrongs here, both of which need to be corrected.

On what grounds should a woman be paid less than a man for the same work? I'm aware that women often take more time off then men because of their families; I'm not arguing that woman A who has taken time off for her family should be paid the same amount as man B who hasn't taken any time off. What I am arguing, however, is that when time off is factored in, women and men should receive the same pay for the same work, particularly since there is no logical justification that can be given for a pay difference apart from the eroneous belief that either one's work or one's value is inherently higher by virtue of having a y chromosome.

Jelly, your reasoning is circular and retrograde: men need more money because they need to attract hot women, and hot women are attracted to rich men because they can't earn as much money on their own. Why on earth can't attractive women earn their own money? Is there something about good looks that somehow render attractive women incompetent? Are we now going back to the whole sterotype of brainy women can't be attractive, while attractive women can't be intelligent?

A woman's value does not begin and end at her looks--that's incredibily anachronstic and mysogenstic as well. Success in life does not and should not boil down to the partner that one is able to attract. Some people never marry and settle down--does that mean that they are failures at life?

And what studies go on and how about how we (meaning men and women) can't be equal? I need citations. Did you know that international research has consistently shown that the most effective way to end poverty in the third world is to educate women, giving them the skills that they need to participate in the marketplace? (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/magaz ... men-t.html) How is this possible if men are so much more deserving of fat paychecks than their female counterparts?

K-loc: I'll believe that (you're a good guy when it comes to the way you treat women) when I see it, not before. All I have to go off of here is what you say online, and I put far more weight on your arguments than your assertions. One can still treat women well while holding misogynistic views--the two are not mutually exclusive.

I'd guess that your distaste for Feminism is due to the "we hate men" branch of it. I don't subscribe to that, nor does anyone I know. I would, however, like to know that I'm going to earn the same amount of money as the men that I work with, and am not going to be disadvantaged because I happen to be female. I would like to know that people who meet me are not going to judge my value as a person based on how I look, or the wealth and status of the man that I marry.

There's no reason that a woman can't be promisicous and a Feminist as well. Why on earth should men be able to have all the fun (in this case, casual sex)? Why can't women do it as well?

Wow Melissa,you're dishing out some verbal-beat downs(lol).

We aint trying to make this a woman against men thing.

But I do believe that the courts favor women;at least in the Caribbean-at least in my view.

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Just look at female politicians, most are no different than their male counter parts. Ya they may not do things exactly like them, but what they do is pretty much the same.

The two sexes are never going to be equal no matter what realm you put them in. It being rights and dignity to economical value. As far as the courts goes, they DO favor women. Just because more and more rape cased get over does not mean the courts don't favor women. Women are way more likely to get lesser sentences for the exact same crime a man commits. A female teacher sleeps with a male student she gets months in jail. A male teacher sleeps with a female student he gets years. Favoritism? Or is that equality?
I agree both should be fixed, but in the unjust was of our society it balances things out. Is it right that two wrongs make a right here? No. But is life fair and balance? No. Trying to make it so is really a lost cause. Look at how much us humans have tried to right the wrongs with society over the years only to be no closer to our goal?
Have you thought that maybe some companies actually factor this in when paying a female? You also also ignoring some other huge factors that play into here. Like the backgrounds of the male and female. By backgrounds I mean work backgrounds and educational backgrounds. Pay is also generally based upon such things. Another thing to consider here, guys are way more likely to ask for more money upfront than a woman is when given a job offer. Why should companies pay a woman the same a guy for the same job when the guy has a more valuable background than the woman?


Stereotypes just don't get created out of nothing, they are usually created based upon something that holds enough water or logic for the stereotype to be created. Are all hot girls dumb? No. But people must have ran across enough to crate such a stereotype. Saying that hot women do make their own money. Some make it legitly while others not so much. And some fall in the gray zone.

This might be the most politically incorrect thing to say and I may get hate mail about it(lol).

When it come to rapes,I believe it happens mostly from misunderstanding s nd miscommuniction.

Forced rape is a different thing,also raped at gun point or during burglary,and I'd say that rape in those cases are rare-but legit.

But rape(supposed)which occurs from both persons making out,flirting,then the girl decides at the last second to stop the show(LMR).

Cool,but when the guy tries convincing the girl to still have sex(verbally)and she reluctantly agrees.

Is that rape?

No,I dont think so.

Most so-called rapes occurs that way,where the girl wasnt actually raped.

Now she tells her friends,then they encourage her to report it...

So-called rape cases like that are the norm.

This' my views,and I'd like to believe that 90% of reported and un-reported cases arent actually rapes.

As I said,rape at gun point,during burglary,women held down;I think those are rare caes and official rape case.

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Now active on YT again with PUA, Red Pill, Manosphere content:
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I never tought about it that way ... Nevertheless, I NEVER ask a girl if she has a boyfriend anyway, because I don't give a shit. If I want a girl, I go for it. Even if she tells me that she is not looking for guys at all, I still use game because I kinow if I play the game right, they'll eventualy can't resist it and fight against their principles. I have seen so many girls cheating on their boyfriends, and I know they're sexual beings. They're not better than men. If I kino them on a lot of different ways, I know they enjoy it and that they initialy pretend to ignore it but secretly, they like it ... a lot!

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You WANT to make a change.
You CAN make a change.
You WILL make a change.

Ambitious to be succesfull => Shyler

K-loc--first off, I must apologize. This first sentance of my previous post to you was uncalled for. I tend to slightly get worked up about this and other similar topics (you can probably tell).

I actually agree with some of your reservations concerning rape. If the woman says yes, even reluctantly--barring cases where she cannot say no--then it isn't rape. (That, of course, isn't accounting for issues of intoxication, but it doesn't play into my argument so I'm not dealing with it for now.) Date rape, however, is still rape in cases where the woman says no; a pre-existing relationship doesn't imply consent. Reluctance and regret do not constitute rape. I'd even go so far as to argue that the fear of saying no in and of itself does not contitute rape either (and this is where I'm going to get disowned)--it depends upon what the fear consists of. Is she afraid to say no because she thinks that he'll break up with her? That isn't rape. Is she afraid to say no because he'll think badly of her and make a disparging comment? That isn't rape. Is she afraid to say no because he'll either hit her or then force himself upon her? That's where the nebulous gray area comes in. Some cases are very clear-cut, particularly when this or similiar sorts of abuse has occured before. Some, however, aren't: is it rape when she's afraid to say no because she's afraid that he'll hit her when he's been nothing but sweet and loving to her previously? In my opinon, the answer there is no.

You are correct in noting the difficulties about reports of rape--in addition to the reluctance on the part of victims to come forward, there is also the nebulous gray area about what actually constitutes rape. As much as I'd love to say that it's clear-cut, in reality, it isn't--a failure to adequately communicate intent does not constitute rape. I don't, however, believe that most so-called rapes occur this way. I would love to that that 90% of reported and unreported rapes aren't really rapes, but it just isn't the case. There's a minority of cases where that does happen, but it doesn't address the appallingly low rate of rape convictions. (Some of that is a result of jury bias, but this is long enough).

Jurupa--the argument about female politicians is a non sequitur: it doesn't actually refute any of my arguments. I said that if women were in power and oppressed men, it would still be wrong. You can't argue that something is alright because someone else would do it if you didn't. Is it okay to rob a bank because you know that someone else is planning to try and rob it the next day? Is it okay to abuse a child because you think that someone else either is planning to or already is abusing him/her?

I do conceede that women may tend to recieve lighter sentances than men for similiar crimes. But what you have to factor in is the much lower instance of women commiting certain violent crimes than men--the type that tend to get the stiffest sentances (murder, rape, assualt, armed robbery, home invasion, ect). But you also get the reverse--there was a case in the news recently about a woman who was put to death in Virginia. She was the only woman on a three person team, and also the only one to be put to death. I'm not arguing that this conclusively proves the courts are biased in one another or another, but only using it to illustrate that gender bias in the court room is probably more subtle than either of us appreciate.

I would agree that consensual rape when perpetrated by a woman instead of a man should be punished just as harshly, but I think that you're overlooking how stereotypes play into this. There's the myth of the male predator luring young girls into deviant behaviour juxtaposed with the myth of schoolboys all fantasizing about having sex with their attractive female teachers. Both of these stereotypes contain elements of truth and of fantasy, and neither should affect the courtroom. Sadly, however, they do. All that this means is that we can't just focus on the courts--we need to try and transform attitudes in society as well.

I have to cringe slightly at your fatalist outlook. Just because the world is never going to be entirely just (particularly since no one can seem to agree exactly what being perfectly just would entail) does not mean that one should not try to improve it. And the world is much better than it used to be, particularly the western world. We went to the divine right of kings and the absolute power of feudal lords over their serfs to recognizing--on paper, at least--that all people are entitlted to certain rights and liberties. We went from monarchies to democracies. We went from the vote being restricted to wealthy landowners to recognizing that all people had an equal right to vote. How is this a failure to improve the human condition in terms of equality and access to rights?

The argument that deficiences in one area are compensated for by advantages in the other still doesn't work because of the reality that many women are not subjected to both. It isn't a case of someone going blind and finding that their other senses improve--it's more akin to a case in which person A goes blind and person B suddently experiences improvements in their senses (excluding eyesight). Woman A's lower paycheck is not affected by the fact that Woman B was favoured in a custody case.

You're still overlooking damaging stereotypes when it comes to employment. Women bosses, when doing the same kind of things that male bosses do, are typically viewed as bitchy and domineering; while a male boss is lauded for his decisive leadership. Studies have shown that women don't ask for more money up front because they are viewed less favourably when they do (as opposed to men).

Your argument here is based on a fallacy--you assume that men tend to have more valuable backgrounds than women. I have already allowed for the issue of more time off; you can't argue--as I have heard many times before--that women are paid less because they take more time off (thus also lowering the value of their background) and that women tend to take more time off because they are paid less (ie. less valuable in terms of their background and experience). That's arguing that A causes B, but that B itself is caused by A.

I agree--stereotypes don't get created out of nothing. At the time when they were created, the dominant elements of society percieved that there was some truth in it while overlooking how society itself may have created or distorted those 'truths.'

"All women should be homemakers and are ill-suited for the workplace." Women are ill-suited for the commercial and business world when you don't educate them, as is anyone. There's also an element of learned helplessness here--if you tell someone consistently, and from a young enough age, that they can't do x because of their gender, they'll likely believe that it is true. The mind is far more powerful than we like to believe--if you honestly think that you can't do it, you won't be able to.

"All black people are stupid and ill-suited for anything apart from menial labour." Same thing--black people are only 'stupid' (although this constitues a misunderstanding of the nature of intelligence) when you don't educate them. They're only solely suited to manual labour when that's all that they've ever been taught and told that they could do.

Once a stereotype exists, it tends to be self-perpetuating. It exists because its 'true,' amd then it continues to exist because people themselves act in ways that confirm its veracity.

Thank for chipping in Shyler;I feel same way about gaming any girl I like.

I dont waste time asking about their status.

And they not resisting comes down to frame control.

As long as the guy's frames' stronger,he cant lose.

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Now active on YT again with PUA, Red Pill, Manosphere content:
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Wow, I didn't see that there is a men-women clash going on here.

Itis pretty interesting tough. Coincidentally, I'm learning about equality between men and women in sociology classes in my college. There was this class discussion. Basicly, when I told the whole group that equality between the two sexes is an illusion which can never be solved, I got attacked from all sites (which quite irritated me because it showed how irrational, emotional and non-analytical people thought) and I was being called conservative and rightist (while I am actualy leftist).
SRI-scans show that man and female brains are different. So the difference in thinking is already clear, and a lots of tests have shown on which sides men and female are different. Men are more dominant because of testoron hormones. Dominant people are more valued and wanted for important and leading roles, which is (ALSO) why there are more male than female leaders in companies and in politics.
Because of this dominancy of men, they also started dominating women (which apparently, women love). Men tried to dominate also between other men, which is why most of the wars are born: it's a matter of testosteron and dominancy. Because of the dominancy and the structure of the body changed according to the hormones like testosteron, men grew physicly stronger, which is why men hunted, and the oestrogenic women cared for the children at home, which is called "mother's right".
These social structures exist for thousands of years. It counts for many other animals too. But technology grew, society became more complex (but remained the same!), an now we live in a world which is emancipated with the internet and such, and women fought against the patriarchal society.

But our instincts remain the same. Our view on the wold might have changed, our subconsciousnes didn't. That might even take some more tenthousands of years.
This might seem very theoreticaly and direct, but it's more or less the truth. We can't be completely equal.
The individualistic society makes it also very hard for women to grow.

Still, we can try to build a world in which we can try to balance things. Women should get relativly equaly paid as men (and absolutely if they work as long as men). On some parts, men will be favored, women will be favored. It is already clear that more women go to college. Women will thus be more educated than men (like Melissa already proved, my respect for your intelligence on the matter!), which will have an effect on society and our beliefs will change as a result. The most primitive society was maybe matriarchal, then it became patriarchal, and society might grow back again to a matriarchal society, in where men will remain hunters and women the carers, but with more power to women, and a society which will be more collective.

That said, don't hate me now because of some communistic beliefs

_________________
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You CAN make a change.
You WILL make a change.

Ambitious to be succesfull => Shyler

Nah Melissa,no need to apologize.

In fact,you're probably the most un-bias female I ever met(online and in person).

I'd never imagine a woman admitting to the things you have:as far as what's rape or not(to you).

What constitutes rapes doesnt mean it applies to all rape victims.

I believe most rape casese are reported based on the woman being emotionally hurt than physical.

And you agree Melissa(as far as you explained).

Cases where the womans' battered,beaten and held at knife/gun point is rare and an exception;I would believe.

Girl cheats on BF,totally regrets it(or pretend to),BF is pissed and disappointed,the girl confides in her friends and tell them that,"I told him no but he kept insisting(verbally),so I lept with him".

Then girlfriends encourage her to report it.

She reports it with a twist to seem more dramatic.

Case gets thrown out.

That's the typical so-called rape scenario which 95% of the time is non-prosecutable and thrown out.

Some of the one which are prosecutable are official rapes:forced,held down,battered,during robberies,etc.

I remembered years ago as a teen,I wa notorious for cursing out women who'd rejected me.

1 such argument,the fellow- teen girl said to me,"Im gonna tell the police and my mom that you'd raped me".

Of course I didnt rape her,but she said that out of humiliation(the argument),hurt,anger and being emotional.

Some women actually take it to the next level,even though the case will get thrown out.

_________________
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