I guess you missed my point when I used the word "encourages" instead of "instructs/requires."

Neil Strauss wrote "It's not lying, it's flirting" in his book but if you remember from The Game it was Mystery who said it first.
Tell me how that doesn't encourage dishonesty.

I will quote Sharplin once again:

yeah ive had 1 girlfriend and last time i had sex was about a year and half ago and ill tell you, the longer it takes to get laid the harder it is to express your sexuality without being a loser.

So when reading GWM and telling you, you its looks based and you have to be sexual to random women, it stopped reading.

Chief explain the methods you go by (or at least are guided by) and their pros and cons no one RSD will actually say what its like either which is weird.

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"You don't want girls to think you suck dick at fucking pussy"
-Seth (Superbad)

I could tell you what RSD is like or you could head over to RSDnation and come to your own conclusion. RSDnation: www.rsdnation.com

Chief's and I style of game is extremely similar.

RSD
Vin DiCarlo
Gunwitch
60yearsofchallenge
Adonis (Nick Quick)

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Considering the number of inner game style KJ's and charlatans on this forum alone, the answer to that question is a resounding.... "No!".

Thousands of people sign up to the gym, go to a bookstore, buy a book on dieting and never get any further than week 1.

Pick up is no different.

The main point that I agree with Hobbit on is that...

MM has a much easier to digest and practical way to learn PU, which COULD be taken advantage of with Gunwitch and other inner game PU styles.

Unfortunatly I haven't seen anything like this outside of MM based PU.

Can someone please explain this to me...

Soooo, once upon a time, back in the far year of 2003, there was a pick up system called the "Mystery Method"

The pick up artists back then were really few and were using just one or two methods. They were protected by anonymity and they were not afraid to use canned openers and routines, learned from others.

People reportedly were getting great results and no one ever complained about anything. They managed to establish value and authority. Everyone was happy.

That was until old baldy, aka Neil Strauss published "The Game" and exposed the seduction community. Their routines became well known. And every chronic masturbator and his dog out there started using them left and right, thus the routines' overall effectiveness dropped due the exposure.

Thus, the now exposed pick up artists decided to move on. One group preserved the principles of MM and invented their own personal routines and instructed PUA enthusiasts into the principles of MM.

The other group did pretty much the same, but added their own twist to it, called it "Natural Game" and unannounced the "old system" for being "obsolete"

And here we are now...

And stop throwing typical cliched arguments like "the canned openers make you weird and blown out". It takes a special kind of idiot to use obviously overused and old openers, expect epic results and blame the method for it thus avoiding resposiblity and not seeking the error in himself. If you're a normal thinking heterosexual male, invent your own routines and openers. This way you are perfectly congruent. Everything we "naturaly" do/say is a routine as most people wouldn't care to admit.


Or another cliched argument - the peacocking... Again, you have to be real stupid to seriously believe that you have to dress just like Mystery in order to achieve anything. Ana again, after disappointment blame the method - after all, it's never your fault... Mystery clearly said "Wear ONE or TWO interesting items".

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Didn't Mystery analyze the patterns in women behavior? Didn't he point out the way a woman's brain is hardwired? Didn't he invent a "master thief's" way of going around it and thus getting the girl? This is method is built over something that is pretty permanent and would take another thousand years to change. How all of a sudden, this method magically stopped working and people called it "outdated"?

Alright, something's fishy in here. Is the problem in the method, or the people using it?


Besides, Chief, your list of the pros of MM is deliberately cut short.

What about the Zen of Cool? Mystery's inner game and way of being? About being unreactive and unbreakable and only contributing value to others? If you've read "Revelation" you'd know.

Mystery explained in detail the importance of delivery and how to speak. He said it first, and Natural Game nazis repeat it.

In revelation he explains in detail how to roll.

The "bait-hook-reel-release" tactic is super effective!

Plus his "locking in" manouver is great. Before I started using it, I had trouble staying in sets and I was looking very uncomfortable.

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I can FIX ANYTHING!!!

Here's a quote from that antimanifesto (60 Years of Challenge) thread:
The community has a new superbaby
The old baby poops too much

For the record I don't consider myself part of the "Natural Game" camp.

@F_I_X_E_R: I recommend you come back when you have experience with more methods so you have a more educated opinion. Hobbit's and Fin's arguments are pretty damn different from yours for a reason.

Nothing Warped mindless says should ever be taken seriously he's the same guy who claimed to screw 100 girls in 2 weeks then can't remember how he did it. He's not qualified to be bashing anybody let alone MM.

MM works! It is still til this day is one of the most profound things I've ever read. It gave me structure and understanding to my behavior towards women and why what i was doing worked and greatly helped me improve upon it. I remember studying MM like it was homework I'd watch his seminar read his book. I would go practice had a few hang ups here and there but for the most part i couldn't lose with Mystery. I didn't use every aspect of mystery i never went out pretended to be gay or paint my nails. My game has changed over the years just through life experiences or reading other material.

Only bad thing about mystery for me is that I hated that he sold out on VH1. However I don't think it affected too much no girls watched that show game still works.

A problem see is with other people using MM they can't get past their comfort and become too afraid of rejection, wanting to protect their nice guy image or just don't plain missing opportunities. But then again thats a problem with the user not mystery method. You just have to take what you need from MM then add to it real life experience and make it your own.

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Friendzone 1-vt51424.html?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I've been watching RSD's Transformations seminars recently, and the 1st 2 with Tim was amazing, he applied the same concepts of MM in other ways and made things more natural aswell,

All MM is, is a gameplan, a structure if you will, how much or little you apply it with other things you've learnt is what matters, I never learnt AMOGing from Mystery or Style, I learnt those from Tyler Durden. And its a big thing, sometimes I've needed it.

All I'm saying is, learn the Mystery Method, practise with it, but don't let it be the only thing you learn oe use, cause you will get nowhere fast with it. Don't bite the hand that feeds

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To Succeed You Have to Stop being Ordinary and Start being Legend...Wait For It....Dary!!!

If you do what you always did, you will get what you always got.

Live for the Moment, Never see a Chance you didn't take!

Not once, have I ever claimed to have sex with 100 girls in to weeks. I get that you dislike me (negative people always hate on positive people) but find an actual reason to dislike me, don't slander.

Bet hey, I'm sure it was just an honest mistake on your part.

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Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

Something I have noticed is that a lot of the guys on this forum (not everyone, but a lot) who keep cheering "MM is the best..." has only ever used MM (or a copy of it. Love Systems, Mehow, Old-Sinn)

If you have only used a MM system then you don't have an educated opinion on what method/system/style is best.

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You obviously wasn't around back then.

Time change... back then getting a phone number was considered MASSIVE RESULTS on many occasions.

One thing to understand is back then the guys that practiced PU was extremely (in general) bad with women and just bad at being social all around. Simply walking up to a chick and opening their mouth was an accomplishment for them.

The thought getting a number, and the occasional kiss, and maybe even a lay once in a blue moon was simply amazing. And to them, it was. They were, in large part, people who stayed in their basement all day.

There were very few other practitioners of other methods around back then to tell these guys there is an easier and better way. Around 2004 (I believe) a user called Woodhaven (Vin DiCarlo) started posting his natural game philosophy of the forums. Lots of people told him he was dumb..

"Woodhaven...you cant just assume value...YOUR DUMB"
"Woodhaven, you cant just open direct and show interest...YOUR DUMB"

You get the point. Then a few adventurous souls who had been using MM, getting numbers, and a kiss every so often (which was considered great success back then) decided to give Woodhaven's (DiCarlos) stuff a try.

They came back soon after

"OMG GUYS!!! My result have gotten massive. Kisses are now common and lays are pretty easy."

Yep, guys were having much better success.

So why didn't his stuff catch on like wild fire?

The answer is MARKETING. Vin, at that time, just wanted to help guys. But, even though some people started posting back with the REAL results they got from vin, many guys who practiced MM still wouldn't give it a try. Why? Their ego.

These guys read the MM book like every day, studied it like hoemwork, went out and shouted out ther opinion openers and in the end, got their number. They seen seduction as being hard and complicated and for good reason, MM makes it harder and more complicated than it has to be. If they started doing Vin's stuff, they would have had to admit that its really easy and that there were going all about seduction in the wrong way. It would have hurt their ego.

This ego protectionism is basic stuff and can be learned from the blueprint.

Anyways, vin, not wanting, or perhaps not able to at the time, didn not start a PU business. He was just happy helping people. He put his ideas and thoughts out there and then disappeared until a couple years ago when he released his very good book, "The Attraction Code."

A few people who had the balls to try Vins stuff did stick around and many of the natural game teachers of today teaches many evolved ideas from his original natural game post he made.

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Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

A quote from Jeffy at RSD;

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Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

Thats a point, /i remember Tyler hyping up 9ball by saying how Jeffy laid 18 girls in his first year of being in the game.......fuck that haha i laid 18 chicks in my first 18 WEEKS in the game!

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Take your Ops.

@Warped Mindless: What is your personal experience with MM? Just want to make sure you have an educated opinion, too

The problem with inner game based methods, like Fin and Hobbit have pointed it, is that they're naturally somewhat foreign to newbies. Most newbies get here because they have a bunch of shitty limiting beliefs that prevent their success with women.

They, as Warped Mindless has noted, are desperate to protect their egos, and so they don't want to do anything difficult like, oh, say, change their entire belief system.

As Chief has explained, they are apt to go through the "hard work"(mental masturbation) of learning tons of routines to increase their success with women.

So, now that we realize that we're all working on the same side, let's tackle the core issue: What is a practical alternative to MM that would provide an easier transition into natural game methods?

There is only one thing: an entire product about motivation. It could be a fusion of the lifestyles of different PUAs, and shows how awesome their life is. Then they talk about the hard shit that they had to go through to get to the top, and explain what you REALLY have to do to get good with women. Then awesome music plays and you have a courage wolf sequence. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3JCRS_lprc)

If people are ready to actually become PUAs, they will respond favorably to the product. If they are the regular newbie who just wants to get laid, and doesn't want to do any work, nothing you do can shuffle him straight past Mystery Method.

Any other ideas?

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Don't hate, just dominate.