Neither Mystery OR Struass are ANYWHERE NEAR being the worlds best.

There is a reason "The game" is often reffered to as "Strauss's propaganda reel".

@ Warped Mindless

If I look silly and/or stupid, so be it.

Alright, the entire forum now knows that you are against the MM. I see that there is no use to try to persuade you otherwise.

Don't accuse me of being reactive... I'm on a forum, not in set. You are another PUA, no need to play these small games among each other.

What do you stand for? I admit that I'm not a good pick up artist myself, but I stand for the MM, no matter how many rocks people may throw at me.

Give me an example of one guru you admire. Or are you going to tell me that you're so cool that you discovered your own model and never followed anybody.

I'll give you more than one

Natural Tim from RSD (Quite simply the best commercial pua i've ever witnessed)
Alexander~
Vin DiCarlo
Gunwitch
60yearsofchallenge
Cory Skyy
Brent Smith

When I stopped using MM a long time ago these are the guys that really helped my game out a lot.

Here is what I find funny; Guys who don't even have success with MM (you admit your not even good yet) will defend MM until their death if they have too.

I met a guy in person like this not to long ago. I shared my views on MM and he started going off on me telling me how wrong I am.

Me: "So your having pretty good success with MM then?"
Him: "well, not really...not yet. Ive k-closed a few girls this year and have a bunch of numbers tho. I just need to work on my calibration."

His friend who was there is also a MM practitioner and had pretty much the same story. Now, here is the important part.....they have both been using MM for over two years! Two years, pretty much zero success and they still defend it to their death that MM is teh best method out there.

While a MM guy is walking around looking for his next "target," naturals are walking in, high fiving people right off the bat. Naturals are building social momentum, having a ton of fun and being social.

While the MM guy is walking up to a girl and asking her something stupid that HE doesnt even care about (such as an opinion), the natural is strolling up to the girl and he commiunicates his sexual desires to her. He takes her hand, hold it, hes gettuing up close and whispering in her ear. the natural is pulling her in and leading with his words and actions. This is all while the MM guy is working on establishing a "hook point."

While the MM guy is trying to prove his worth by telling DHV stories, the natural in screening her to see if she meets HIS standards. The MM guy is trying to prove himself.

The MM guy is in his head, thinking "okay, I did step 32b.7, now on to step 33a.1." The Natural, however, is is living completely in the moment, having fun, self amusing and escalating.

The MM guy is worried about "amogs." The natural is having so much fun no one wants to screw with him. People love other fun people. The natural is having so much fun he simply turns others into spectators. The natural is just doing what he wnats to do and doesnt give a fuck what anyone thinks about it. Hes being the life of the party and brining girls in to his fun world...all while the MM guy is on his 3ed DHV story.

The MM guy is afraid to get sexual because he hasnt gotten past "comfort" yet. The natural, however, has been sexual from the start! he knows that the girl cant be totally comfortable because that kills tension. The Natural knows that along as the girl is standing there, shes plenty comfortable enough and that sex is the ultimate way to build comfort.

The MM guy is looking for IOIs so he can escelate. Hes looking for signs that shes attracted to him. The Natural doesn't give a fuck about IOIs. hes having to much fun to bother looking for them. he just continues to constantly escelate and to assume shes attracted to him. How could she avoid being attracted to him? He is sexual, fun, charming, and cool. By assuming shes attracted he will do things people do and act the way people act around their lovers. This in turn will make the girl attracted if she wasn't already.

The natural talks to her they way they would talk as if they already had sex, he touches her they way he would as if they already had sex...ect

While the natural is being sexual, cool, confident, charming and FUN, the MM guy is being creepy, weird, and calculated.

The MM guy is acting "indifferent" and like hes not interested. Sometimes he even acts gay. The Natural on the other hand is showing his true, manly, dominant intent! This is MASSIVELY attractive.

While the MM guy is trying to isolate his "target" the Natural is busy trying to fight his girl off so he can continue to talk to other women his energy has drawn in.

I could go on and on but you all get the point. I posted this as food for thought. keep the discussion civil and relevant...peace guys!

ohk even tho i havnt mastered the technique of MM or naturals id still be defending MM, why?

In my oppinion Mystery is one of the original PUAs, sure i may not know all the techniques in this method but i do know that only some methods from other gurus will apply to me. isnt that the reason why theres so many gurus and coaches out there now, sure it started out from being a few people but when it spreads people will put their own ideas on other peoples oppinion to see if they go together. This is applied in so many ways that not alot of us are aware of it, take style/swagger(clothes) it used to be really dull and boring. Now people are mixing and matching any sorts of clothes eg.. skinny jeans with coloured shirt, skinny jeans with a blazer, skinny jeans with vests, skinny jeans with jackets etc...
This example is only from skinny jeans, see how the method changed from just skinny jeans?. Sure it started from the jeans but alot of people added their own style/swagg that matches their personality.

btw on my last post there was a reply about Mystery and Style from warped mindless, dude your really not seeing the bigger picture. the message i was tryna send across is that everyone has their own style and that not alot of people will suit a certain method... would you really put a fat guy weighing 150kg in skinny jeans? sure you might fit him in, but would chicks really look at him and talk?
that would be a good opener tho

In my oppinion Mystery is one of the original PUAs

isnt that the reason why theres so many gurus and coaches out there now, sure it started out from being a few people but when it spreads people will put their own ideas on other peoples oppinion to see if they go together.

btw on my last post there was a reply about Mystery and Style from warped mindless, dude your really not seeing the bigger picture. the message i was tryna send across is that everyone has their own style and that not alot of people will suit a certain method

Alright guys (Warped Mindless!)

I'm gonna show you some actual statistics that will dispel any doubts about the MM.

http://img291.imageshack.us/f/naturalgame2.png/

http://img801.imageshack.us/f/mysterymethods2.png/

There you do.

http://whatdoestheinternetthink.net/ind ... &st=google

vs.

http://whatdoestheinternetthink.net/ind ... &st=google

It seems that the internet loves fuzzy hats more than being a man. We better back off.

Your argument would hold validity if everyone is a "natural." But they aren't. The reason guys like me who absolutely have no "natural" talent with social skills use the MM is so that we can still have fun in clubs.

However, I have noticed that the more I use these methods, the more of a "natural" I become.

The MM is for people who don't know how the be the natural and are awkward with women.

With respect to your post, I agree that the natural has more fun than the MM user, but that is only for rookie MM users. Once you have gotten down the fundamentals, all your lines, your charisma, your social cues that you pick up on, they become an autopilot function. You don't think in terms of demonstrating high value, you are high value without thinking.

You become natural once you have enough practice, just like the real naturals. The reason the real naturals are so good is because they have had lots of experience. And that is what the MM is for, to give guys a more confident way and proper tools to gain experience so they can eventually become naturals

The real reason "naturals" are so good is because they haven't been as affected by social conditioning, their still operating from their core.

It would be more accurate to say that "naturals" have been more affected by beneficial social conditioning that reinforced naturally attractive behavior/beliefs while AFCs have been more affected by social conditioning that hinders them from expressing themselves genuinely.

No one is exempt from social conditioning. Learning PUA values is social conditioning. You, Warped Mindless, are also heavily affected by the cult-esque social conditioning that RSD subjects their clients to.

Even though these "natural" methods fix the problem while MM functions as a mere band-aid "solution," it's all done through social conditioning in one way or another. Like Tyler says, social conditioning is a good thing. Without it we would be eating poo and jumping off buildings.