It is a term often used within the Pick Up community and it is one in which I have been pondering over recently. Some PUAs claim they make this their golden rule when it comes to every Pickup interaction and every girl they end up hooking up with but is this not simply an unachievable ideal?

When you first meet a girl both of you instantly have different ideas of what you want to happen with the interaction and what happens afterwards. The girl might have an idea of a potential boyfriend and the PUA might be after a one night stand or a FB. Just from looking at this is there anyway possible that you can leave the girl better than you found her? Assuming that you both hook up that night the PUAs expectations are satisfied however the girl might just see the hook up as a PUA sees the approach (the initial stage to gaining what you actually want).

The PUA might continually see the girl in question and it would be up to him to say that he doesn't want anything serious as early as possible. It may change however it is something that isn't too likely in most cases. The girl is in effect wasting her time. She could have spent that time looking for a potential boyfriend and although she may enjoy the sex it isn't what she really wants.

I know I have used a really simplified scenario but all I'm trying to illustrate is that every person has different needs and expectations. Not everyone is compatible so this idea of "leaving the girl better than you found her" how possible is it? Is it simply used to justify going between girls when in fact all your doing is distracting their time from finding a more suited person to themselves. Do PUAs use this term to make themselves feel better about what they are doing even though deep down they think it is morally wrong? I am not saying that being selfish is a bad thing. Sometimes im all for that but trying to justify it for something it is not is what annoys me.

Maybe I just haven't found the reasoning in what this is all about. Maybe im over simplifying everything. In that case I hope someone can reply to this and prove me wrong. Im hoping for someone to prove me wrong.

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I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. ~Winston Churchill

That's a silly argument, just because you go into the interaction planning to have a one night stand doesn't mean that's what will happen, and just because she came into the interaction wanting a relationship doesn't mean that's what she will want.

Also the statistical odds of her meeting the love of her life in the time you were "distracting" her are so minutely slim that it's not worth considering. Seriously, you meet the love of your life once on one night of your adult life. Most people in the western world will have around 50 years after the age of 18 to do this, so one night is hardly significant.

Lastly, if you treat the girl well and help her relax a bit, and she enjoys herself, you have left her better than you found her. So provided you don't bullshit(which i'll admit most self proclaimed PUAs do) and don't treat her like shit and you're good in bed you'll have succeeded.

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Even the most naturally gifted can learn to become better.

As I have said in my post the arguement is essentially generalised in a very simple manner. Its basically trying to illustrate the point that people have different expectations and have the ideal of a PUA being able to leave a girl better off all the time is not attainable.

The fact that the original expectation was a one night stand could lead to other things such as seeing the girl for casual sex. The PUA wants this however the girl may not. She will become emotionally invested in the PUA thinking about him more. Girls tend to like one guy at a time (generalisation again) as their brains are wired slightly differently. It is not simply the one night but the time shes thinking of the guy.

Its not really about what they are planning in the interaction. But all im saying is its impossible to meet every girls desires and needs and although you can have fun with the girl it may never lead to what she hoped for. This is a question of are PUAs using this expression to rationalize their morales?

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I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. ~Winston Churchill

good point, though I do disagree.

You see, we all live once. I bet you heard "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" before.
Since the beginning of mankind, and probably even before that, girls have needed a beta male whom she raises children with and an alpha male to provide her healthy sperm.
cheating, or cross breeding, has always been there. Hot girls have got "orbiters" (nice guys willing to raise her children in return of a chance to lay her), all around her.
I see that girls would really like to have the alpha male all for themselves. Make him her boyfriend. Sometimes this works and it's a perfect relationship, perfect love if you will. though a real pua never shows his girl that he is 100% hers, cuz then he wouldnt be a challenge anymore and the girl would lose interest to find a real alpha male.

We do leave women better than we found them, either with life experience, sexual experience, more knowledge about you, more knowledge about herself, they've met a great guy anyway.

on the other hand, all of this pua leave them better than you found them bullshit might be some marketing slogan in order to sell pua shit to afc's. Also to give pua's a good name in general.
Also, I don't want a wife later who has had several good pua's in her. In the back of my mind she would be used territory, a tramp, used, and it might even make me feel insecure and also invest less in her in terms of love and money since i dont feel like she is really mine.
what i mean with telling this is that we dont really leave them better than we found them.. We might even break their hearts or turn them into sluts and we keep thinking its for the better cuz we're "pua's".

the honest answer to your question is, I don't know. It's just the way it is.

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Failure was never an option


Because girls don't like sex.. Yeah RIGHT!
Why else do you think girls have P*ssies

This can easily be avoided if both parties are up front and honest about their needs from the beginning.

Your boy,
870

PS, avoid this type of thinking like the plague:

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"Do not blame, call out, alpha male, superman, or water sprinkle any hoes. And what will be, will be." -Hobbit

http://tinyurl.com/c6lbje<-Member Journal (PMZ Only)

Yeh I agree with what your saying. I dont want to come across too rigid in my views and im just looking for some honest answers and opinions. I feel this is somewhat of a grey area for me and looking for clarification!
What happens if you are both happy having a casual fling and you suddenly stop liking her?

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I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. ~Winston Churchill

Then tell her so. Not in a mean, hurtful way, but always be honest. You will bypass lots of unnecessary drama by doing so, and it's the most 'alpha' trait you can possibly have, if you care about such things.

Pickup, when done properly, is really little more than an honest expression of self.

Your boy,
870

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"Do not blame, call out, alpha male, superman, or water sprinkle any hoes. And what will be, will be." -Hobbit

http://tinyurl.com/c6lbje<-Member Journal (PMZ Only)

if your wanting to do the whole modern moral thing, then the only way would be to be as honest as you can, not decide whats best for her, or delude yourself into thinking that the experience of being with a PUA, making her develope strong feelings and having a 'better' experince than she would usually have is somehow a good experience and 'whats best for her', but to let her decide whats best for her.

the whole honesty thing can and usualy does make things alot simpler and can save you a hella lota drama but your honesty can bite u in the ass, when the girl dose not want you are being honest about...idk, if u get bitten a few times because you were honest the whole moral appraoach could go out the window pretty quick.

People seem to be overcomplicating something that's really simple.

When you're at a top level of game, you realize that you game best by SPAM value and fun. When you do that, the concept that you could leave a girl worse than you found her seems ridiculous.

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Don't hate, just dominate.

Although I am not at that level this seems highly simplified and short sighted. I am guessing there will be a risk of a girl getting hurt from you no matter how good your game is.

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I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. ~Winston Churchill

A fair point. I'm sort of operating under the whole "To have loved and to have lost is better than to have never loved at all" philosophy. It's basically whether you prefer to have no pain and no pleasure, or have lots of pain, but a lot pleasure to go with it.

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Don't hate, just dominate.

the 'leave every girl better than you found her' isn't stated as something that can always happen, but simply something to strive for.

much like the slogan of the Hospital Corps, "Above all, do no harm"

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Every Saint has a Past, Every Sinner has a Future

QFT

its an aspiration to leave them better than found---for one thing she may have been attracted to douchbags before after a one night stand she may realise that she doesnt have to settle for duchebags---

however theres over 200 pages in the Game---why so much attention is paid to one sentence beats me--it may even have been a throw away remark by style.

maybe theres guys out there that seem to think that girls who may have cheesy feet should be avoided like a vampire avoids garlic--good advice--but in the book more type space--than leave em better than u found them was given to the cheesy footed girl--than leave em better than u found them .

maybe theres lairs of puas out there that believe they will lose their attraction powers if in the presence of a girl with bad feet who knows

The point has never been to avoid hurting someone's feelings. When you play rough in a game of hearts, you're going to break a few. And, honestly, I'd rather break a hundred hearts than never break one.

"Leave her better than you found her," isn't something Mr. Strauss said originally; it's a rule that he was given from Mr. Ross Jeffries. It's one of the few things the man's said that I approve of at all. It doesn't mean "Don't hurt her," though. It means "Enrich her life somehow. Give her a good story to tell. When she thinks of you in a year, let it be with a smile, whether you were with her for a few hours, a few days, or for the rest of your lives."

As pick-up artists, we're often so concerned with our own wants and needs that we forget that the women we're attempting to create these connections with are people. They have wants and needs too. And when when we fulfill those, even just a little bit, we're reaching out across the vast empty space full of strangers and creating a real bond. If you do that, you will break her heart when you leave, but you will have enriched her life with something awesome and real.

Broken hearts heal. If you do it right, you'll leave her with an enriching experience that will last the rest of her life.

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Repent now and save 50% on your next divine judgment.
-Monkey's Little Brother, Spud