Ok so like I usually do late night I'm checking out some pua sites and then I went on puhate.com, yes I'll probably get banned for even mentioning, but keep reading a poster had some really valid points, so I'm second guessing- this whole- pua thing.

The bold part is what got me, the second paragraph I blew off.

Got me thinking also, I never really hear anyone having some sort of success. Or pictures with loads of women.


Hmmm, the last paragraph really got me thinking. Let me some up all my ideas. Everyone sort of got here by doing a Google search on how to get better with women, I'm not talking about people who get laid and shit I'm talking about guys who have 0 experience with girls. And like the guys said this shit does sound like "gold" but it puts things in perspective I never hear these "workshops" working. I want to believe in this community, but there are many things recently I see flaws in. For example the lack of a starting point with people with 0%. "people just say do Newbie mission and then you get good?" WTF If I haven't approached people before why all of a sudden I can approach 50 girls in a day. And the routines things, sound more of a Robot than being natural, another things is this shit isn't acceptable everywhere. Like if I were to go to a girl in my school and dot he "ex boyfriend" opener. She could easily go why he fuck are you asking me, or have the whole table of girls stare at me for something so trivial. I don't know. I would like tos till believe that haters are just going to hate and make up bogus stuff to hate on PUA's , but since I have seen so many websites that say "they" can helpy uo pick up women for an X amount of dollars has really lowered my expectations and will have to be valid reasons on how this stuff works, rather than a guy who is good with women make up bogus routines.

_________________
I'm new to the game, just striving to get better.

Please excuse my thread making. I'm starting completely fresh and need to limit the ammount of rejections whilist I'm starting.

Everyone has their own opinions, but unless you try it yourself dont believe what these hate sites are saying. Sounds to me like they are the type of people that are jealous about what we are doing because they are to self consious to get out there and force themselves out of there own comfort zone. Its alot easier to dismiss all this Game talk as bullshit and not have to change the person you are then it is to go out and change everything you have learnt...

As for the cost part, most of the information on these sites are free, I've only ever bought 3 books during the last 12 months of learning pick up, and im doing fine. You really dont need to buy all these packages you see, most of it is just the same things recycled im guessing.

I can honestly say that im a completely different person since begging to learn Game. I dont see girls as the only measure to our success, its not only about pick up, its about becoming a better person and making your life better and more enjoyable, I see the pick up part as just a nice bonus. I Love the new me. Im a thousand times more confident then i was before i started, i've also moved out of home and taken responsibilty for myself, got a new job i enjoy more and have success with more better quality women then ever before. Im sure there are other guys out there doing just as good as me and more guys doing even better, I can not thank the community enough. It has helped me improve every aspect of my life and ive still got tons to learn. The real prive of learning PU is priceless...

Just my 2 cents

What I've come to realize is that PUA isn't really about teaching anybody anything. Every guy already has the ability to be good with women, somewhere in his psyche. The problem is that there is too much negative programming learned since childhood, that prevents a lot of men from using their natural abilities.

Somewhere in life Afcs, have been taught that they are not good enough to get women and that they don't deserve a good woman. They have been taught that the only way to get women is to pander to them, to worship and beg them for love, to accept what ever measly scraps life throws at them. Their self-image and self-esteem are so warped, that they cannot even image being smooth with women, let alone actually doing it.

Pua empowers these kinds of men. It teaches them that they are not weird or worthless, but are just a byproduct of a superficial society. Pua opens Afc's eyes to their own true potential and their own true value. It builds up their self-esteem by forcing them to do something that they thought they were not capable of, one step at a time.

Pua is not about teaching. Its about doing. If you can get an Afc to approach and talk to a woman, that he otherwise wouldn't. Does it matter how you get him to do it? It doesn't matter what you say to him, as long as he gets the momentum he needs to succeed further. With small success come confidence, and with confidence comes greater success.

So some pua may sound like bullshit, and some of it may even be bullshit. But most of it works. And if it doesn't work for you, then you don't have to use it. You are free to do whatever you want, but it does work well for a lot of people.

^^^

excellent post Kalel

IF PUA is bullshit, atleast it compells people to take action! , and thats better than doing nothing and staying an AFC. Studying PUA is not only improving myself with women but every aspect of my life. PUA is definately a form of self improvement and ofcourse that can only be beneficial.

Even if you assume all pick up techniques work, they ALL work on the same two factors.

Approach women. (duh, but how many guys out there are in the same boat, virgins, because they just haven't made many approaches)

don't be needy.

basically the rest is confidence propping stuff. from knowing what to say (routines), to understanding not to take every "no" personally (LMR for instance).

the rant from PUA hate is on the money on alot of points. he agrees tho, that you have to meet girls, and appear to be worth dating... simple. he may be against the comercialisation of all of it (and the extra limited edition dvd packs for 1000 bucks type things ARE a scam... nothing in those packs could possibly be a thousand bucks better than the free advice available here)... i understand his frustration of watching some of the "guru's" playing on mens insecurity to make serious bank... it's no different to natropaths preying on the despiration of cancer sufferers.

_________________
If you want to know how to be successful with women, learn to obediance train your dog...

what a shitty concept, so that guy is saying Men have no control over who we can attract and we should just cross our fingers and pray a girl accepts us?

GTFOH, society teaches us through bullshit movies that Men should cater to a women's needs, buy them gifts, listen to them bitch and cry about their terrible day at work, basically act as an emotional tampon...Are you fucking serious?

I'm new to the Game but I've been reading PUA material for the past 60 days (downloaded over 20 e-books thanks to Utorrent). The 13 books I've read has taught me to better myself, treat women as equal, and respect your OWN needs and standards. PUA is all about being a fucking Man, no apologies take no crap mentality. What is wrong with that?

I believe in the Mantra "attraction isn't a choice".

dude, the guy above said

"Live your life and quit putting pussy on a pedestal, which is all you're doing if you read any of this garbage or trying to find tricks to "get better with women." Do what the fuck you want to do, and fuck improving your livelihood to please others. If your life sucks, improve it because you've made the conscious decision to. "

how is that much different to what your saying?

_________________
If you want to know how to be successful with women, learn to obediance train your dog...

idk man, Ive never had a girl being a friend of mine so I have no idea if pua works or not but oh well.

_________________
I'm new to the game, just striving to get better.

Please excuse my thread making. I'm starting completely fresh and need to limit the ammount of rejections whilist I'm starting.

Dude.. that's funny
grow up...

first of all this "PUA thing" is NOT the Mystery Method,
second, yeah you need to approach, off course!!! you hope something magicall will happen by it self
"there is no proof?"... huh? well, you can go to the FR an LR section, or you can meet up with someone an see it happen
"of well"??? no one forces you to be here or to o those newbie missions, you want to do them, you don't want to DON'T


god damn, I can't believe that there are actual forums on hatred, I mean people should like, take time from their life (even if it is 10 min a day) to write about hating other guys that are good with women???

_________________
"StreetLight!! Stop seeing every problem in life like it's a chick you didn't hit on!"

I got into PU just and wanted to be AWESOME with 'ze bitches' but it made me a new person. It hasnt changed my personality, Im still a graphic novel addict, but Im improved, I can speak to almost anybody, Im comfortable hanging out with people I dont know, and I can always get a conversation going.

So all in all, PU is the best thing that ever happened to me

_________________
'You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.'

Chukz15,

First, it's good to put Question Marks on PUA. However the critique given in this article is from both a emotional and sience related view not true.
How do they come up with that numbers, and I don't see a explenation what grounds the accusation.
They are actually right about this, because IT IS GOLD. And why can a schrink make money with helping people and a respected PUA not?
Attraction is based on attributes? Why is attraction based on attributes? I don't see a legimited explenation why it is and all the theories I heard from PUA's are based on in-the-field expieriences.

HB9's and 10's can be sluts, but they are most of times 'sluts' with a high standard. Still a challenge to 'Game' them.
Slut.
Not true, 1. For example watch the Pick-Up-Artist season 1/2. Watch lay-reports from all the guys who never thought they would ever been with a woman here and on many other sites.
2. PUA is all about making a better version of you. Woman like that and are more likely to be picked up. Since girls like PUA behaviour they will sleep with PUA's instead of wussys.
True, by investing on PUA stuff you will learn to be a better you. Remember PUA is not beeing a copymachine, it's all about feeling more confortable in your own skin because you know your body language, conversation skills etc. are GOOD if not BIG WHOOPDY FUCKING DOOLICIOUS.
We at least know that he doesn't like EMO-style. Makes me even feel offended even more because I like EMO-style.

Anyway, when you meet a girl you can get to know her past in the way PUA's do. You can also get to know her in the wussy way. Your opinions about what way is the better way i leave that up to you. There are many factors whom are out of control, yet there are many who are in control. And by not meeting a single woman all factors are out of control.
Sounds PUA.
The guys who have natural game can improve but don't feel the need to. Good for them. However not everybody has natural game. You'll see that the guys on this forum had zero-and-I-mean-ZERO-game at first and sky-rock now.

I will give you an example of myselve. At highscool my best friend was the goodlooking lady charmer. It was not really my thing. I became jeleous (ye, great inner game), googled and came on to a few forums. During that time I lost my sight on friends cause of different reasons. I met him a few months ago at a club. Score: him 3 kissing 1 sex, me 4 kissing 1 sex. Was his personal best, not mine. Says enough.

Riqueza.

_________________
It's not nessacery to be strong but to feel strong.

I understand how some people are skeptical of the whole pick-up thing, especially when every article, video or any form of material posted comes with a sales pitch. However, there are a lot of aspects of pick-up which are fantastically useful in life and I think pick-up is really just a method of self-improvement for many.

In most pick-up the fundamental reasons for why it works is often overlooked and not stressed enough by so called gurus. Its all about how you come across as a person. Now of course what you say does have a bearing on this, but its more about confidence and body language, being an alpha-male, how you converse with people - comfortably and projected. Looks don't matter so much, but you MUST be well-groomed to improve your chances.

Too many people are looking for a definitive formula or script, and limit themselves to the 'rules' that they are taught, but no such thing exists.

However, in pick-up the right gurus do teach invaluable skills, such as conversation skills, building rapport, flirting and escalating, bar tricks and other cool stuff that aren't all necessarily specific to pick-up, but just enhance your social skills, which make you more attractive as a person, and ultimately leads to whats known as 'pick-up', being part of your skillset.

It can improve your life dramatically in so many ways if you focus on areas that you think need improvement, and use information that you think is useful rather than believing everything you are told.

Miles

Im getting so tired of this discussion. Either you believe that it works and try it out for yourself or you dont believe that it works and leave it to the professionals.

I wouldnt care either way. It works for me and with one less competitor it is gonna work even better.

_________________
I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL




Bwahaha,


I can understand Ezo's frustration/tiredness of this question.

But I can also understand the poor newbie's worry and concern. As I even questioned it before I'm sure.



Chukz15 LET ME ASK YOU THIS...!!!

Do you believe, that if you could make yourself more cooler, more loveable, learn how to make people feel good about themself, bring positivity to peoples lifes, become charismatic, and learn how to turn girls on.

Do you believe that the above would lead to you beeing 'better' with girls, and getting laid more?

P.S: don't sidestep the question and answer it firstly to yourself HONESTLY, and then to me.

P.P.S: I have a perfectionist problem and am therefore always laced with doubt. However, to me it sounds like you may be happy not beign good with women and so doubting it and shrugging it off gives you a reason to not bother doing anything about it or making change in your life.

_________________
Munroe: "I kinoed the hell out of that goat"
Jav: "bashing chodes 24/7 ftw"
Slywalker: "Neg the bagel"
Slywalker: "I had a 1yr old GF when I was 19"
SS_Trunks:I asked her for an extra pen, confidently....

heres a thought, what about the guys who would never have gotten laid if it wasnt for the pick-up community!
I am gonna have a major rant!

Neil Strauss said it, when asked by a feminist:Shake my hand. [Say] 'Hi, my name is…' Treat me like a human being. Avoid seeing women as conquests and men as competition." In reference to the proposal, Strauss retorted that "If that worked, I wouldn't have had to write this book.

Heres a quote from the webmaster of fastseduction: "It's no more deceptive than push-up bras or heels or going to the gym to work out…This isn't just a game of words and seduction, it's an overall life improvement."

I guess what i am saying is the perceived notion that women can doll themselves up as much as they want to get laid, but men are not allowed to improve themselves for the purpose to get laid because it means you are seeing this girl as a sex object and it pisses me off! THEY WANT TO BE SEX OBJECTS! Why does the make-up industry make so much money? why are lingerie shops so popular? why have the rate of boob jobs gone higher then ever? because these girls want to be perceived as sexual beings!!!

i guess the problem then becomes what about the girls that dont get hit on??? apparently its unfair to them, its very simple its these girls own fault! they wont do anything about it if their overweight or are spotty or have bad teeth or quite frankly look dreary and boring! there are SPAM for these but they dont do a thing about it 'i am sure someones gonna like me for the way i am' BULLSHIT!!!! the only way shes gonna get a date is if hes blind or really really desperate!
Its Darwins survival of the fittest!!!!!!

_________________
life sucks and then you die! deal with it