If you don’t understand the material or question it’s relevance…as this is first time I’ve ever posted it. Please feel free to ask me to defend it. Only through debate can I solidify ways in which to present the material so that the original intentions are understood. ie tear it apart guys. Please.

The Physiology of approaching
Everyone is surrounded with this personal bubble of space and thought. While the amount of space (and thought) varies from person to person the “space” is always there. Your job as a social person is to intrude on this personal bubble of space and gain their attention without setting off alarms or activating their flight or fight response.

To understand the fight or flight response you must first know a little about the nervous system or more precisely the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems and a function of the brain called mirror neurons. [Warning science]

Sympathetic nervous system
Promotes a "fight or flight" response, corresponds with arousal and energy generation, and inhibits digestion.
 Diverts blood flow away from the gastro-intestinal (GI) tract and skin via vasoconstriction.
 Blood flow to skeletal muscles and the lungs is not only maintained, but enhanced (by as much as 1200% in the case of skeletal muscles).
 Dilates bronchioles of the lung, which allows for greater alveolar oxygen exchange.
 Increases heart rate and the contractility of cardiac cells (myocytes), thereby providing a mechanism for the enhanced blood flow to skeletal muscles.
 Dilates pupils and relaxes the ciliary muscle to the lens, allowing more light to enter the eye and far vision.
 Provides vasodilatation for the coronary vessels of the heart.
 Constricts all the intestinal sphincters and the urinary sphincter.
 Inhibits peristalsis.
 Stimulates orgasm.
Parasympathetic nervous system
Promotes a "rest and digest" response, promotes calming of the nerves return to regular function, and enhances digestion.
 Dilates blood vessels leading to the GI tract, increasing blood flow. This is important following the consumption of food, due to the greater metabolic demands placed on the body by the gut.
 The parasympathetic nervous system can also constrict the bronchiolar diameter when the need for oxygen has diminished.
 Dedicated cardiac branches of the Vagus and thoracic Spinal Accessory nerves impart Parasympathetic control of the Heart or Myocardium.
 During accommodation, the parasympathetic nervous system causes constriction of the pupil and contraction of the ciliary muscle to the lens, allowing for closer vision.
 The parasympathetic nervous system stimulates salivary gland secretion, and accelerates peristalsis, so, in keeping with the rest and digest functions, appropriate PNS activity mediates digestion of food and indirectly, the absorption of nutrients.
 Is also involved in erection of genitals, via the pelvic splanchnic nerves 2–4.
 Stimulates sexual arousal in women.

Mirror neurons
A mirror neuron is a neuron that fires both when an animal acts and when the animal observes the same action performed by another. Thus, the neuron "mirrors" the behavior of the other, as though the observer were itself acting. Such neurons have been directly observed in primates, and are believed to occur in humans and other species including birds. In humans, brain activity consistent with that of mirror neurons has been found in the premotor cortex and the inferior parietal cortex.

So to sum it all up we have a system in the body that either has a fight or flight response and a system that has a rest and digest response. On top of all of that we have a series of neurons in our brains that mirror the behavior of others in our attention. How does this all relate to pickup? Well I’ll bet with AA and all the social pressures that you are experiencing you have activated your sympathetic nervous system and the act of walking over to a girl is a “fight response” then through mirror neurons she is also pulled into the sympathetic side and her fight or flight response is activated “your hitting on her” resulting in blow outs and shit test on your part. Nature sucks huh?


And since I’m all about hacking everything…the real question is how do we overcome our subconscious responses and start using mirror neurons to our advantage? The place to start is Milton Erickson, world renowned clinical hypnotist. He uses a process called pacing and leading. To induce a trance in someone he would begin by pacing their reality. Like “as you sit there in your chair….” He has just paced you by telling you what you’re doing.

So the girl is standing there beer to her chest scanning the room. Do you think that is a sympathetic or parasympathetic response? Well let’s look at the physical symptoms.
 She’s probably swaying - Blood flow to skeletal muscles and the lungs is not only maintained, but enhanced.
 She’s scanning the room - Dilates pupils and relaxes the ciliary muscle to the lens, allowing more light to enter the eye and far vision.

I’ll stop there in this hypothetical situation but this list can get very long. She’s obviously in the sympathetic system. So you would come into the set with high energy and pace her reality and then quickly switch to the parasympathetic system because it is your wish to stimulate arousal in her.

Now let’s imagine the girl is sitting at a bar with her friend they are both leaned in and chatting. This in the community is referred to as a locked out set. One of the community ways to deal with this set AKA Badboy is to act super Alpha. This is obviously incongruent with your current understanding of the word Alpha. For some reason it has become synonymous with Asshole. It’s not. Alpha is a really vague way of saying being in the parasympathetic nervous system. These girls are in the parasympathetic phase. So you are pacing their reality to gain rapport with them.

So now that you understand the two systems and how they interact and affect your game. Let’s look at ways to create the two responses that are subconscious on demand.

Sympathetic…breathe really shallow almost hyper ventilating and you will start to feel the blood surging into your muscles, your energy levels will shoot through the roof. Suddenly you’re peppy and full of moxie.

Parasympathetic…Breathe out twice as long as you breathe in you will feel yourself slow down and stand taller. You relax and your eyes kind of become unfocused.

-Rockstar

The place to start is stop making shit so complicated and epic. Just approach, everybody loves sex with attractive people, that's why humans dominate the world now. A better article would be "Sex is so easy, a caveman can do it".

Very interesting post. The last two lines about how to enter those "frames" are probably the most useful though

Just curious, what makes you qualified to be writing a dissertation on the physiology of pick up? Are you taking a class? have a PhD or MD?

fair enough, but I was more interested in a response to the theories presented in the paper.

about me:
I have a lot of infield experience about 10 years or so started on the ASF newsgroup with SS/NLP/GM method then moved on to the mystery method. So yes i understand that is easy...but it wasn't always and i am constantly trying to explain things in more scientific terms to further the original intention of the art form... a study of human interactions. Do you know who started ASF and what he was arrested for with kevin mitnik? you should check it out. Social engineering is fun.

-R

Hey CommonSense,
I have a PhD is psychology and a BA in linguistics. I am currently working on a set of theories on evolutionary game theory, specifically adaptive dynamics and their relationship to reciprocal altruism. While peer review by colleagues will provide an accurate description of whether there are any fundamental flaws in the formulation of the theories; a peer review by the PU community at large will provide a better sense of practical applications.

-R

Well, when I create a piece of art, I don't need to study oil paints on an atomic level, I don't have to learn why the paints chemically bond to the canvas. Similarly, I don't have to know the origins of velum and cave paintings. There is a point where some background is useful and relevant, but when you keep dealing with smaller and more ancestral concepts, you lose focus entirely. Knowing the INVOLUNTARY systems in place that make AA unpleasant doesn't help you not feel it. There are already so many guys here that feel the proper way to increase their success with women is to intellectualize every aspect of the pick up so they don't have to deal with any dicey personal connections and potential rejection. Stuff like this, just muddies those waters even more.

But this is your field, (and I've had some related training) so I understand why you'd be fascinated at the microcosms that come into play during pick up. Being a PhD, do you have anything less entry level? Any human attraction studies that would blow my mind?

sure.

In order for a strategy to be evolutionarily stable, it must have the property that if almost every member of the population follows it, no mutant (that is, an individual who adopts a novel strategy) can successfully invade. This idea can be given a precise characterization as follows: Let ΔF(s1,s2) denote the change in fitness for an individual following strategy s1 against an opponent following strategy s2, and let F(s) denote the total fitness of an individual following strategy s; furthermore, suppose that each individual in the population has an initial fitness of F0. If σ is an evolutionarily stable strategy and μ a mutant attempting to invade the population, then

F(σ) = F0 + (1−p)ΔF(σ,σ) + pΔF(σ,μ)

F(μ) = F0 + (1−p)ΔF(μ,σ) + pΔF(μ,μ)

where p is the proportion of the population following the mutant strategy μ.

Since σ is evolutionarily stable, the fitness of an individual following σ must be greater than the fitness of an individual following μ (otherwise the mutant following μ would be able to invade), and so F(σ) > F(μ). Now, as p is very close to 0, this requires that either that

ΔF(σ,σ) > ΔF(μ,σ)

or that

ΔF(σ,σ) = ΔF(μ,σ) and ΔF(σ,μ) > ΔF(μ,μ)

(This is the definition of an ESS that Maynard Smith and Price give.) In other words, what this means is that a strategy σ is an ESS if one of two conditions holds: (1) σ does better playing against σ than any mutant does playing against σ, or (2) some mutant does just as well playing against σ as σ, but σ does better playing against the mutant than the mutant does.

follow?

Yeah, I follow, it was an unnecessarily obtuse way of repeating yourself. "In order for a strategy to be evolutionarily stable, it must have the property that if almost every member of the population follows it, no mutant (that is, an individual who adopts a novel strategy) can successfully invade." Was the essence of what you were saying. I guess I was asking for something that would be relevant in pickup, not a theorem that explains why pickup can be successful.

Equations involving several foreign symbols aren't as relevant as saying something like, "I've read a few studies that seem to prove that women are most susceptible to kino when the man uses it in full view. Or when he does it discreetly." Or whatever. But aw shucks, I'd hate for you to have to lower yourself to my level to impart something the whole community would find useful. Especially if it meant you'd have to do it in an accessible way. PhD or no, at the end of the day you're a guy seeking to improve his game, it wouldn't hurt to embrace your peers. But I guess I like condescending to people, too, so I don't have a leg to stand on.

sorry, so first you say "do you have anything less entry level?"

now you say "But aw shucks, I'd hate for you to have to lower yourself to my level to impart something the whole community would find useful. Especially if it meant you'd have to do it in an accessible way"

So do you want simple?

do you want it hard?

You should be more clear in your thoughts.
So from now on you are no longer allowed to use any of these argument tactics with me and expect a response.






Personally i think you're just a really frustrated KJ who needs some attention.

BTW that's not at all what the theory says. You couldn't think your way out of a paper bag and maybe you should just resort to grunting at fat women so you could "keep it on your level."

You wont make any progress if you already know it all. I would be more than happy to explain it to you if you ask nice.

Cheers from
Rockstar

haha rockstar win!. I really enjoyed your ideas especially since I'm in school to be a psychologist.
Now a problem you might have with posting things like this on this forum is that we here have been conditioned not to think that deep into the game bc the less intelligent people who read these things will take what you have said and try to apply it in the real world. obviously thinking like this would take a person right out of the situation and theyd prolly disassociate with themself and have their head so far up their arse that they wouldnt be able to pick up at all.

most studies minsk is trying to get at are ones that can be found easily. try psychology today if your looking for of those attraction articles that are based in psychology.
Honestly pick up artist studies and articles are much more informative and have much more information than psychological articles about attraction and pick up anyways. psychology brushes with PUA ideals and validates many things PUA's say but usually fails to put it all together. most studies in psychology about the subject of pickup take a step back. what ive seen so far in psychology is that they show what typically happens.

Gee, guy, I didn't read all your bumper stickers, but I assume you left no argument tactics at all. Which is fine, because if you let me have the last word, you effectively end the argument anyway. Yeah, I was asking for something beyond psych 105, but something less than a doctorate thesis based on economic models. You are a psychologist, right? What's your field? Do you really only see things as black or white, entry level or masters level? So lets shift gears, you have a lot of grounding in pickup and obviously a lot of education, have you, in your extensive studies, found anything that's informed your game, anything that you've made into routine?

What's a KJ? Is making baseless personal jabs on your list of saddest internet argument techniques, or is that acceptable for the big brains?

One should know that on ASF these kinds of threads get praised like there's no tomorrow.

Which is okay if you like pick-up theory.

The mentality on this forum steers more to a more practical approach without all the fancy gadgets.

Atleast, that is my mentality.

It sure is an interesting read. Accurate too.

But I don't know if we need more theories that are even more complicated than the ones we have now.

VERY IMPRESSIVE!

Like it alot. If you are doubting this, bear in mind, you need to understand any system if you are going to use it. Understanding why you get nervous and how you stop it affecting you is a great asset to have.

This is as practical as it gets, rock solid analytical.

Good work.

Jelly:
yeah you’re right most of the techniques in the community tend to disassociate people from other people and produce sociopaths, which I find has four general solutions that they arrive at naturally; they get a girl friend or take a break (guilty); they get frustrated and quit the community; they become instructors and quit the community; they start writing articles that really tear apart human behavior (guilty). So pretty much people just quit the community because the amount of dissociative behavior is immense and can be (and usually is) emotionally stressful. I have noticed two types of infield PUAs the ones who have very intense AA tend to have no problem forming connections with people but need to disassociate on the approach. The ones who have very little or no AA tends to have problems connecting with people and need to disassociate in the comfort phase.

Just remember that the disassociation is the other kind of stress…eutress not distress. It’s healthy and natural in the progression up Maslow’s pyramid of needs, but we must all remember that we are doing it.

Minsok
No, personal insults aren’t on the list. Feel free to insult me all you want…but I might touch you back.

KJ stands for keyboard jockey- a keyboard jockey is a term used to refer to someone who has little or no understanding of the material in a real world application sense but has read and studied every pickup system know to man and claims to be an expert on the subject. I.e. you sit behind a keyboard instead of sarging hotties. Sadly I have been one at one time. I think everyone has…I learned more in a month infield than a years worth of systems.

Minsok and Jav

As for the practicality of the material…This material is not about how you do something but why something works. The applications are up to you. I don’t do a whole lot of silver platter offerings because I think people should think about pick up instead of following scripted and canned material which a lot of times lead to sociopathic behavior in the community and some of the mental instabilities of some of the members.

For example; the reason…that mystery talks…like this…when he is…sarging. Is in large part due to the fact that he is using the technique that I describe to induce a parasympathetic response in the target.

Fin
Thanks

Nah, having finished highschool, I honestly believe we're both above personal insults, especially if they aren't even gonna hit home. Alright, I see you're here for an academic discussion and don't want to offer up your experience. Fair enough.

You say you don't want to make sociopaths that just copy a bunch of canned routines, but aren't the guys that have no success with women the ones that typically end up being serial killers and rapists? I don't know of any serial killers that were married. I think transmitting your skills and advice ultimately does more good than harm.