You might want to check my profile pic b4 u go making up any more stories
your logic is a big contradiction, what "ANIMAL" do you know that can spell? none(jackass...)

and i didn't say mystery doesn't get pussy, but anyone who wears funny hats, paints his nails, & goggles and isn't going swimming or skiing is defiantly a fraud in my eyes...

YOU piss yourself at the sight of beautiful women, that brought YOU to the MM i mean, your the one using his teachings of canned lines and outlines to talk to women (and I'M pathetic???)

getting back on subject, MM does teach people to gain confidence in a way i guess, but for you to say its the only method is complete BS and any PUA will tell you that your wrong...
if it works for you great, but don't "shit on my cupcake and tell me its icing"

_________________
que sara sare, LET THAT SHIT RIDE

Well let's get this on an even footing, I'm doing an MA in Philosophy and Psychology. A large part of our psychology department here at Aberdeen University is focused on research into attractiveness, "sex appeal and dating along with other subjects including leadership and group thinking. In philosophy my specialities are in the fields of Epistimology and Meta-ethics.

So that's my formal background, informal experience = A fairly extensive 2 years sarging experience. And an A in higher psychology, which is an exam you sit in scotland around the age of 17-18, not that tough.

So that's my background set, what's yours? If we exchange that, maybe we can get this on an honest footing so we can appreciate where we are both coming from.

But largely, why should it matter what someones qualification are? If it turned out I was an absolute moron with zero qualifications, does that really matter if I can point out flaws in an argument and show evidence that it's the argument present is false?

It's like when you corrected your teacher in math class, and he rather than checking himself asserts that he "has an oxford degree in Mathamatics"; all it's doing is distracting everyone from the fact that he made a mistake, and it's just a cheap trick to avoid haivng to actually argue a case properly.


To begin.
----------------------
Would you like to show me the studies that prove mysterys works as the difinitive guide to courting in mammals? Let alone in humans? Now while we are animals, the development of language, macro-communities and complex social infra-structure has changed the way we interact socially and romantically.

Humans are the only species to consider not letting a potential partner know about their interest as courtship, I cannot think of another species that attempts to pro-create that way. The animal kingdom is often the other way round. In alot of animals, rape is among one of the most common pro-creation methods.

And here are a couple of things that show MM is in no way a difinitive coverage of courting behaviours.

1. Social proof =/= sexy. This has been proven in field and in any good book on female sexual fantasies, try "women on top" by nancy fridays.

2. Showing interest (that you want to fuck her) =/= unattractive.

3. Looks do matter; MASSIVELY. It's the best predicter of how likely you are to be succesful in romance and one of the most effective ways to tell if two people will get on as a couple is how their facial attractiveness compares to one another.

Speak to anyone who works in the field of social psychology and they will tell you, we are no where near accuratly mapping how the specefic factors of the social interactions that govern courtship affect the process.

So why would you think a guy with a funny hat and a pseudonym who's job is to hang out in clubs teaching reformed nerds how to get laid would have it mapped out?

He makes vague and dodgy references to cherry-picked works evolutionary psychology and biology. That's not what many would call an, un-baised, well reviewed and comprehensive theory.

P.S. Relax no one here wants to hurt you! There is no need to be threatened by me and respond like you do; remember this is just an internet forum, most of the people here you will never meet.

Infact what they think will probably never influence your life in any significant way worth worrying about. If you want to debate and discuss this, then do so. But, when all is said and done, there is no real need to get aggressive and upset about this. Have a nice day!

Make up stories? Lol, dude...wow, just wow.
Oh he is a fraud because he gets pussy? Lol, please dude. You can't spell, so you MUST be an animal. See how your logic works? You are in no way shape or form ready to argue this point because it is pretty clear your level of education stopped at highschool. Ahhh, I see, so you are allowed to "make up stories" about me, but I can't make an open ended statement about you? You really don't know anything about me, but can automatically claim I piss myself when I see hot women?

Lol, might want to go back over what the definition of contradiction is, because it seems to have evaded you.
I am neither aggressive nor upset. I would think a MA in Psychology would of allowed you to ascertain that your perceptions are what dictate how you feel. The human population has far exceeded the social dynamics our brains are designed to handle. There are oodles of grammatical errors, and run-on sentences in your so called "argument". I am also pretty sure that most people would agree that one of the easiest degrees to obtain is one is psychology.

Social proof isn't attractive, and your reference is a book by Nancy Fridays? Lol, dude this is just laughable. Looks matter? You are over-simplifying the idea of psychology and attractiveness. Psychology is a very young science, and for you to try and make references to it as if it is completely factual material just makes you appear to me more misinformed than the general public is on the mating processes of human beings.

If you are a scientist, and believe in evolution, then it would be pretty easy for you to identify with the Zoologists who have already broken down the Mystery Method and paralleled it with the mating habits of animals. These being mostly mammals, and pack animals, which we, human beings are, pack animals. How can such simplistic concepts elude you when you are supposedly the foremost expert with a MA psychology degree in attractiveness?

Oh, I see, probably because Philosophy is irrelevant to what we were discussing, and a MA Psychology degree in the research of attractiveness which we also weren't discussing, and also just as IRRELEVANT. I believe we were talking about the mating habits, and behaviors of animals. If you honestly believe that the number one determining factor in the attracting other people on this planet is how you look, then I feel sorry for you. Maybe that is what contributes to your feeble attempts at undermining a very brilliant description and noteworthy book written about human interactions. Which is, the Mystery Method. So by all means continue to be a dissenting voice to the truth I speak, but Mystery Method wasn't written over night and has solid science grounded in the evolutionary behaviors that have developed over the last oh...I don't know, 40,000 years?

would have*

yea i know, you are clearly alluding the fact that i have no problems hitting on women, contrary to what you thought...
i mean i spell every other word right but i cant spell? maybe, just maybe i didn't feel like spelling business correctly because it was faster for me to type(i see you still understood what i was saying tho)

even frauds get pussy, i guess you can trust anyone who can f-close in a club by telling a girl things he's never done huh?(mystery's game is based off of a good understanding of the courting process and lies in the form of canned openers and DHV stories, check him out in field) & i never made up anything, you clearly had issues when it came to interacting with women, which is WHY YOU USE MM OR EVEN SPENT TIME LEARNING IT! and an open ended statement is is one that can have more than one answer, what you said was blasphemy, i hit on women quite successfully as you can see lol

go check the definition of a n open-ended "?" then try to act like you know everything BTW if you want to talk about spelling "high school" is two words

the only thing humans and animals have in common are tactics to reproduce(pea-cocking, social status ect.) doesn't mean we live in the wild, and sleep outside, so how can we be animals, humans are the only intelligent life on earth, we build space ships and use shit like the internet, never seen my dog do that..but i have seen it stick it nose up into someones ass, which is just what you've been doing to mystery

_________________
que sara sare, LET THAT SHIT RIDE

LOL! Threatened much?
Alluding the fact? Dear Lord, please bless this man with some sense. Who knows what problems you have hitting on women, I don't know you. Anyone can post a picture on the Internet, and based on your attitude I am guessing most girls you talk to are in HIGHSCHOOL.
The point was you said ANIMALS can't spell, and you can't spell, so that must mean you're an animal correct? I am only following your train of thought and hoping to point out all the fallacies that ALLUDE you.

I have checked him out in field, and how do we know you haven't made up anything? There are no videos of you picking up women. There is no evidence that you yourself actually don't like men. Everyone could use a lesson in social interaction, and here you are trying to put me down for trying to better myself? Yet here you are on the same forum, doing what exactly? Mr. Pimp if you're so successful why are you here again? To bestow on us all your gems? Haha, please pal, you're not getting anywhere with your random rants. Yes you are right, more than one answer, which is why I used the word "probably" in my statement in regards to whether or not you hit on women. It could be "yes", it could be "no". I was simply betting on the "no". Over your head?

Yes, I am acting like I know everything because I choose to follow a format of literacy that is commonly accepted in the world. However I am sure that you neither want to cure your ignorance or come to grips with how down right idiotic you sound, "but i have seen it stick it nose up into someones ass, which is just what you've been doing to mystery". So you DO agree with me, that human beings and animals share similar behaviors? Perfect, glad to see that it only took a couple paragraphs of posts for you to understand we are comparing the behaviors between human beings and animals. Thanks for your time, now go hit on all those women, I'm sure they're begging to be taken care of by a real man.

Right!! you dont know me, so dont try an tell me about myself, you were wrong before and your wrong now so stop guessing about the girls i talk to, chances are they're the type you dream of getting...

my profile is evidence enough to prove i have little trouble w/ females. sorry if women find me attractive, but if anyone can post a pic on the internet w/ himself surrounded by women lets see your MM using AFC ass do it....
if i cant spell how are you reading my "rants"
i think you need to go to church and actually pay attention because this is truly ridiculous
good thing you didnt put money on that bet, cuz u would have lost
and why are you constantly trying to attack me??(threatened much?:lol:)this isnt about me (im always on my grind you should get on yours and keep your mind off of mines) This is about mystery and his MM and how you can not back the ludicrous claims you spew on this forum, which isnt just full of nerds and losers, contrary to what you believe, im sure a lot of us are here for improvement, some more than others, but i really feel sorry for you because you got your whole game from a book,
which probably sold thousands, which means there's a million other guys who can replace you and take any girl this method manages to land you in the exact same fashion.(also makes your game extremely limited)

& im sure you'll have something to say that completely ignores what i just said and will have no type of substance or evidence to support your claims, and thats fine(what ever helps you sleep at night)

but i have a phone full of girls and its 4/20 so im good, peace and love

im done

_________________
que sara sare, LET THAT SHIT RIDE

The way you repeatedly insult people who disagree with you is aggressive and shows that people are upsetting you, to elicit this response.

And the fact that you are paying that much attention to my grammer and spelling strengthens your argument how?
This changes what exactly? Pretty easy to get standard grade maths, but that's not a case against trigonometry.
Plenty of people have sarged incredibly succesfully without using social proofing OR working on the basis of "value" itself. Often completely ignoring it.

And why would a collection of female sexual fantasies not be a good source to look into when concerning male-female interactions?
http://www.faceresearch.org/

Actually most of psychology provides causal data and although a very complex subject, has had some real results.
Do you want to cite these zoologists, or are you going to continue with your appeal to an elusive authrotiy? And when did I say we weren't pack animals? And what simple concepts are these that allude me, what is your background on my beliefs on PU?

And I did not say I had a pyschology degree in attractiveness or that I was a "foremost expert".

When you claim that MM is a scientifically accepted theory, I think it is relevant to bring up such contradictions between proven working real world concepts and the MM school of PU.

It has cherry picked science in it (wait, what? I thought scientific backing in terms of psychology was irrelevant? Last I checked MM tries to implement evolutionary psychology), most of it heavily twisted and the evolution of man goes it a bit further back than 40,000 years.

So to sum up.

You have asked for a formal background. I provided one, and you then assert that a formal background doesn't matter becuase the sciences don't know jack compared to an ex-magician.

You've then made numerous appeals to authortiy without citing any of them, and used the hazy application of Evolutionary psychology in MM as proof of a scientific consensus on its truth.

Then attacked statements made on the contrary to MM, by claiming they are false/ridiculous without explaining why.

----------------
Your debating style here is similar to alot of creationists I debate. Probably the most impressive thing you have done is make this look like a debate, by writing posts, filled with condescending remarks and rejection of argument and evidence while providing no argument or evidence to warrant such a refutation.

Honestly, list your background to the subject, and your academic background if you wish. Then to simplify for my puny brain, list three arguments that you made for the case that you are presenting.

In an academic sense; I haven't seen a single point to your post. Have a nice day!

You're so right, I could never get a picture with a girl sitting on my lap. You are so spot on!!! Geez, why didn't I just concede all points in the presence of such a MASCULINE guy on the Internet? Haha, you have to be just out of Highschool. Let me guess, you work at a retail store?
Attack you? Lol, that is how sad you are, you actually perceive this as an attack. It is blatantly obvious how miniscule you are in this world, and how content you are to stay ignorant to your surroundings. You smoke a little weed, fuck a few girls, and automatically you're the King? Hehe, guys like YOU are the dime a dozen bunch. I can go to the corner and find 10 chumps proclaiming the same shit that you are saying RIGHT now. If you don't understand the argument, if you have nothing more to say, and if you think everyone here is a bunch of nerds (What a cop out, you really must think you're hard by being black huh?), then why don't you delete your account, and leave these forums if they have nothing to offer a pimp like you on his GRIND, haha.
Hey, if you are weak enough to take that as aggression, then by all means continue having your balls suck up into your abdomen.

Well the fact that it is pretty easy to state, "I'm working on my graduate degree." when the way you write, the way you speak, and how little effort you take in compiling a concise argument shows how easy it is to lie on the Internet.
It means I could cake walk through a Psychology degree, but here you are trying to make it seem as if just because you are studying Psychology that all other material I have researched and read made by ACTUAL clinical and private psychologists, psychotherapists, and behavior specialists should be circumvented. I'm thinking not...
Probably because out of all the interactions that men and women have, especially in the wild, sex is a very minimal amount of time in the scope of one's life. That's why! Didn't think about it like that did you? Figures...
You don't say?
The main credential that could even be applied in this argument that you are leaning on is the fact your main research is in attractiveness and that you are going for a graduate degree in psychology. Now you are saying that you are neither an expert on the matter, or have even obtained a degree? GOOGLE is your friend, I am not going to do the research for you, since you should be pretty capable in regard to finding a reference to Mystery's take on evolutionary principles that have already been grounded in the observations of animals.

Scientifically accepted theory? Pretty sure I said was GROUNDED by evolutionary theory and animal behavior. What are the contradictions you speak of? I haven't seen you mention one.
No, what he implements is the observed social dynamics of animals, and applies it to the concept of human beings having evolved...from oh what was that again? Animals? Yes, the evolution of man has gone back past 40,000 years, bravo, wait to side-step the point that is being made that MAN didn't start grouping, thinking, interacting, and forming a social dynamic that resembles the one today until probably around 40,000 years ago when there were distinct changes in the not only the anatomical structure of human beings, but the development of the frontal cortex. COME ON PSYCHOLOGY MAJOR, you should know this...
If you can't see now that I only asked for your credentials as a ploy, then I feel sorry for all the data you've collected and observed. It is very clear that you lack sufficient knowledge in any of the areas we are discussing. I stated that the Mystery Method parallels with the mating habits and processes of animals, because guess what, human beings are animals. This shouldn't NEED to be explained to someone who actually had any type of formal education in the field of behavior. Yet, here you are unknowingly dissecting your own credentials while I sit back and laugh at how clueless you are to the game of debate.

Now you are bringing up creationists that you debate? Please dude, you can't even understand the behavior dynamic established between human beings over the past 5,000 years, let alone 40,000 years.

"In an academic sense I haven't seen a single point to your post."

Precisely, you neither can deduce nor structure an argument, because you haven't even been able to render a single point from what I believed to be a pretty straight forward assertion that the Mystery Method is based in animal behavior and mating rituals. This is why your so called "academic background" is laughable, and I am glad that you stated which University you go to so that I can be sure to mark it off the list of any future friends, family, or acquaintances looking to attend.

do all assholes peak with sarcasm all the time, or are you a special case?

king? im glad you think so, weed and girls can only equal fun IMO, whats so wrong with that?

of course its an attack(and a bad 1), what would you call it?, i sure sense some hostility in your word choice.
if i smoke some weed and fuck girls that sure isnt a bad thing is it? what are you accomplishing by arguing in circles?

i say" this forum isnt full of nerds, unlike you may have thought"

you say "if you think everyone here is a bunch of nerds (What a cop out, you really must think you're hard by being black huh?)"

its like you have a problem with comprehension
(w/ the exception of asking a few questions on how to deal w/ difficult women) yeah pretty much, i like to give back to the community that's given me so much.
thanks for realizing the potential

_________________
que sara sare, LET THAT SHIT RIDE

Agreed. Well, if your brains are as big as your mouth, why not go out and get one, then maybe people would care about your uneducated opinions.


Your attitude stinks, when someone disagrees with you, that is not a social cue to call them an asshole and insist there wrong because of a spelling error.

I am studying Psychology at degree level, I started to learn game as it felt like a cool offshoot of social psychology, which has always been of interest to me.

I studied mystery method and found it to be effective, i used this routine based method for 2 years. I got results. however, during the course of these two years, the method became tedious, boring, lacking in efficiency and carried with it a mental burden of halving to remember and in some cases rehearse lines. (dhv stories/ openers). I recently wrote posted on this mental exhaustion (PUA energy)

For the past month or so, i have been learning a more natural method namely RSD's materials. And i am happier than i ever was using the game, there are no constraints, no lines, no rules. Just have fun and go for what you want. So i who some posts back argued MM was the best method, concede that there are better methods out there.

How can you have an informed opinion if you have only experienced one side of the argument? To hit you where i feel it will hurt you the most, that is illogical and childish.

If you have a retort not based on pettiness feel free to voice it.

Enjoy social isolation!



And where is all this evidence you have provided? I hear alot of noise, but I don't see anything.
These sexual fantasies often go into great depth of how they met the guy and the attractive features he represents. Pretty damn pertinent to PU.
So why are you going to discard it then?
And re-read my post, I told you I'm studying psych and alot of what our department covers is PU relevant. You piled all the rest on

Sorry, that's not how this work, inductive logic you want to claim that mystery is scientifically backed. You provide the proof for that.
Scientifically accepted theory? Pretty sure I said was GROUNDED by evolutionary theory and animal behavior. What are the contradictions you speak of? I haven't seen you mention one.

1. Showing interest = incredibly sexy.
2. Looks are a major factor.
3. Social proofing can be ignored.

And grounded, anything can be grounded. My belief that martions are on earth can be grounded in the fact that a meteor crashed into the earth.
1. I'm not a psych major, again your adding to me, why?
2. Where did he observe this, who did he get these studies from, what animals? Search for kasabi's post on "alpha dog"; for a good explanation of the limits of confusing alpha lion, alpha chimp, alpha dog with alpha human. (Inserted by Hobbit: Kasabi's post: 1-vt60602.html?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 )
3. Grouping wwwayyyy before 40 000 years.
[/quote]
So sum up your argument, what is it,

We are animals! - Check, but not animals interact and mate with the same system regardless.

I have research - You haven't shown anything.

And how am I clue-less. Actually during your attack on my credentials, which you have managed to repeadetly mis-interprett, you've contradicted yourself. By both attacking psychology while saying you have backing.

Big Bold letters Jack.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

That's the first rule to formal debating. You've made claims that mystery has lots of reputable research. Where is it?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&so ... =&gs_rfai=

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q= ... =&gs_rfai=

I guess google isn't my friend. because I can't find anything. But then again maybe that's just becuase I'm an idiot and know absolutly nothing.

Laying down the law.. The Good and The Bad.

1.) Mystery Method isn't retarded, and for people who have poor inner game it offers them a way to "fake it, until you make it".. Almost just better for guys with little to no success with women, and then go out one night and use some canned lines, and they see a 60% increase in there severely lacking game... It's good for what it is..

2.) Mystery Method DOES have SERIOUS limitations at a more advanced level because you are trying to replicate a method that isn't created for you.

3.) Though it may actually be the case, but in set if you actually THINK of a conversation as being linear, you will fuck it up..

4.) It does not teach you to socially calibrate.. And though it does HINT at natural or inner game, it doesn't do a good job of helping define it.


Okay... So the only REAL way to utilize MM at a higher level?

I've said this a thousand times, but people ignore it...

You have to take the information, and make your OWN method.. A synthesized-hybrid method is the ONLY good one, because you need to do the work, and find whats best for you.. Not for an ego-centric, suicidal 6'4 ugly rockstar. Fuck... OF COURSE IT DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU.

The Mystery Method has good information... but if you use the Mystery Method, and JUST the Mystery Method, That's why it doesn't work..

_________________
As a PUA, you must leave the girl better off than when you found her

wow shit just got so repetitive in this thread i couldnt even stand reading it all.

Anyway, in the last few months ive been through a revolutionary phase in my Pick Up..

My best success with pick up have come with Mystery Method. This means one night stands, day 2's,3's, kiss closes and all the way down to number closes. (non relationship)

This doesnt mean I use canned shit, but follow the method. This includes all shit like magic bullets.. that are all based around the MM model but claim to be different but arent. (they all use that same anti canned line demonisation just like all you are doing of the MM. But we all know this is not true unless you are socially retarded at using MM.)

using the MM to meet and have sex with women works perfect. If it doesnt then you are doing it wrong and I feel sorry for you because you are missing out!!

When it comes to meeting a women you want to form a relationship with, MM is perfect to meet them, but you will need to be your natural self or 'best self' (applying only pick up principals) after the meeting/sexual stage if you wish to see more of her and form a relationship. Its the only way to stay true to yourself, her and the relationship you wish to form... Or else you will end up living a lie, questioning who you even are in the relationship and who you are altogether. (where many social robots go wrong)

This is what I stand by.

Until I come across better I stick by it as its what makes me the happy man I am and I recommend you all use the same.

This thread is what caused me to stop using this forum.


Almost all of the posters severely failed to show any grasp of reality in the formation of how Pick Up works. Most of the posters on both sides, make their arguments, and on the rebuttals, they ignore information that they can't explain. I mean this on both sides.

"mystery method is awesome"
"No it's not"
"yes it is"
"It doesn't properly adress the interaction"
"it's good though"
"canned lines are bad"

It's a classic case of "disliking what is popular", and some people clinging to what is popular.

Neither are correct.

In any response to this, i can promise no one will adress my following point. as I've mentioned it in all 5 of my posts, and people have argued my posts, but mysteriously left my MAIN point out.

Mystery Method Is not the ONLY method. But it is important and imperative to know as any pick up artist. if you shut yourself off to this method, than you are WAYYYY worse off than JUST using HIS method...

That being said, As a pick up artist YOU MUST MAKE YOU'RE OWN METHOD...

Don't use Mystery's,
Don't use David D's
Don't use Tyler D's
Don't use magic bullets


USE YOUR OWN. Do the work, and create your own method and persona that works for you.


This thread has basically shown me that posters cling to ONE style of pick up, and shut the others out.

I have not heard one person successfully debunk mystery method.

And I don't know why i care that much, because i don't even use ANY of the mystery method.

I care because the way you guys are arguing about this, is seriously making me doubt PUA's.
===========================

Let me try to put this into a math equation...


Mystery method= Can get you laid... but seriously stifles your game if you JUST use this..

Any other method by itself= Can get you laid, but seriously stifles your game if you JUST use this

----
What MOST of the arguers dictate is....

Use EVERY method and technique you can find... EXCEPT MM=BETTER THAN MM

I AGREE!

But why shut yourself off from that? it doesn't make ANY sense. It does not dictate that you have to wear a silly hat, or that you have to neg here, compliment freeze out.. It's a roadmap, a reference... THATS IT!

And for that purpose it's OBVIOUS that

Using EVERY PUA method INCLUDING MM to CREATE YOUR OWN= FAR SUPERIOR to any other option.

Removing the mystery method from your arsenal does not help you. it only hurts you.

The same way that ONLY being a MM lackey hurts you..

OKAY go ahead and ignore everything I've said and tell me that the mystery method is outdated, and canned material is bad, and he's a phony, and his method does not clearly outline the social interaction correctly.

_________________
As a PUA, you must leave the girl better off than when you found her