The following methods are not about just getting a girl to go out with you. And it's not about "scoring" or getting laid. It goes further than that. More importantly it's not anti-female or whatsoever. It's a methodology that supports you in finding a woman who is potential committed-relationship material and then determining whether or not she truly is The One".

I didn't "invent" it but just summerize it, in order to hear your opinion on that. I have my own opinion on that but after talking to other people, some points are a little bit ambiguous for me now. So I want to hear your opinion on that matter. What do you think about this material? What are the good points and bad points? And why they're bad?

Key points

# The basics: The basic premises of a fulfilling long term relationship are:
•men need to have qualities of masculine: confidence, control and challenge.
•women need to have feminine qualities: integrity, be giving and flexible.
•a good relationship has: respect, affection, romance, humor

Male Strength Qualities:

Confidence (Self-Confidence, Self-Esteem) - Humor is one way to show confidence. She has to know where the line is drawn where you will walk without you telling her.

Control (Discipline, Patience, Self-Control) - Go in slowly because patience is the key to women. She initiates touching. Practice manners and class always. No public displays of affection (PDA). If another guy checks her out be cool and take it as a compliment.

Challenge - Let her chase you. Only use the phone to setup a date. No social networks or instant messaging. Be honest and closed with personal information. Spoon feed her over a lifetime. Move very slow, stop, backup, this raises interest level.

Female Traits (Attitude):

Integrity (Loyalty, Trust, Honesty) - Would you go into business with this woman? Is this someone you can trust?

Giving - She pays for the dates once in a while. Does she offer a backrub or give you the phonebook to call a Chiropractor?

Flexibility - A girl who is not structured. Someone who is playful. Is she hassle-free?

# Phone calls - The phone is just to make a date and not to chit chat. If you get the answering machine, don't leave a message.

# Reality Factor - Men have a tendency not to face reality when it comes to dealing with Miss Right. They have to stop rationalizing and have to put their ego and pride aside and see things as they are. Strongly connected with that is the "Bottom Line Factor".

# Bottom Line Factor - Only her actions truly reflect her feelings and attitude towards you NOT what she says. For example if you ask her out on a date, and everything she replies which is not a "yes" or she doesn't make any effort of counteroffering, means she's not interested in you. Move on.

# Age 18 -22 - Be careful dating a girl who's between 18 and 22. In general these girls are not grown up yet. They don't know what they want in life and can be a flake. I don't say you shouldn't date them but be very observant of red flags (see "red flags") in dating them.

# Female Interest Level - The most important factor. A thermostat of a woman's romantic feelings for you. It is a scale from 0% to 100%.

90 - 100%: She is in love. The goal is to get and keep her here by practicing the male strength qualities.

51 - 89%: The higher her interest level, the more fun you will have. The lower her interest level, the more she will nag, graze, and act moody.

49%: The point of no return. A guy can't raise her interest level above 50% again. One example of reaching this point is hearing "I need my space."

40 - 49%: She may be with a guy but is gathering resentment to make a clean break. She is generally unpleasant to be around and open to flirting with other guys.

0 - 39%: She walks. It's like she was dating the guy 100 years ago. She has moved on.

# Going back - You can never go back. The resentment and reasons why it didn't work are still there. If she wants to come back it is to satisfy her ego and will be temporary until she finds something better to do. Never ever take her back.

# First date - The first date is a short coffee date at Starbucks. It should take 30-45 minutes at best. No compliments and no gifts on a first date.

# Topics to talk - She's not your psychologist or your mother, so don't spill out your guts. Keep it light and funny. No put downs, no negatives. Don't tell her about your insecurities or flaws. Avoid topics like politics, religion and sex (this includes sexual innuendos whatsoever as well).

# 60 Days - Wait 5 - 9 days between phone calls. Only go out on weekdays. Friday and Saturdays you disappear completely. If she starts with 51% interest level or above then after 9 dates (~60 days) she will be in love. Once she is your girlfriend then you can see her up to 3 times per week and you can date her on Fridays and Saturdays.

# Kiss - If you don't land a kiss on the MOUTH (on the cheek doesn't count) after date number 2, you flush her number down the toilet, do this without hesitation.

# Long distant relationship - Don't bother starting one. Dating a girl that is more than 100 miles away won't work in the long term.

# Dating a Co-Worker - Don't do it. It could affect negativley your performance on job. Because if it won't work out, you still have to see her. And this will be an awkward situation for both of you. More over maybe your boss is into her as well. So, resist the temptation of dating a co-worker.

# Next date - Never make a date on a date. Since this shows neediness and is anti-challenge. BUT if she makes a date then you can accept it. (See also "in commings"). Otherwise wait to 5-9 days until you make the next date.

# In comming - If it is in comming you can accept it. If she offers to go out with you, then it's the wrong time to be a challenge.

# Boyfriend/ hunsband - No boyfriend or husband lurking in the background! Never date a girl who's already in a relationship. If she betrays her boyfriend/ husband, she'll in all liklihood do it to you, too. Wait till she drop him. And even if she's dropped him, wait 2 to 3 months before thinking of taking things seriously.

# Physical Attraction Test - When a girl first meets a guy she determines whether she has 51% or higher interest level based upon his appearance and communication.

# Head games - Girls who are into you are less prone playing hard to get. If she's really into you she'll help you and make it easy for you.

# Maintenance Program (Respect, Affection, Romance, Humor):

Respect - Say no to her once in a while and stand your ground.

Affection - This only applies to when she has 90 - 100% interest level. Quietly hold her in your arms for 10 seconds, stare into her eyes, act like you enjoy it, no kissing, when meeting her and and departing.

Romance - Do something special or buy her a small gift every few weeks.

Humor - Diffuse direct questions with humor like Jim Carrey. No matter what she asks, or how many times she nags you, she'll only get a funny answer. Keep it light and funny always (no religion, no politics, no sex, no negatives, no putdowns).

# Home phone numbers - Always ask for her home phone number. Don't accept mobile phone numbers. If she has a hard wired home phone and she doesn't give it to you, then it's a sign of low interest level which means she's not Miss Right.

# Red flags - If you detect any red flags (= bad behaviour like nagging, flaking, lying, inconsistency, .... ) you should back off and start to hustle other phone numbers. Keep in mind, everthing that bothers you about her in the beginning will be 10 times worse if you're married with her. So think twice if you can live with any of her bad behaviours.

# Marriage - Date her for 2 years and watch her attitude (Integrity, Flexibility, Giving) for red flags. Show that you can keep her in the 90's. Never ask her to marry you by yourself. She has to ask you to marry her (or hint for you to ask). Date your wife. Never take her for granted. Treat her with respect. Always be a gentleman to her and always act classy around her. Show her affection NOT with words but by action - but only if she's already fallen for you. Always be a challenge. She initiates touching. Make a place away from her like the garage or live in separate houses. Say "I love you" a handful of times in your lifetime - but only when she has said it more often than you did.

Very, very interesting stuff.

thanks for that! very interesting to read.

Whatever bro this is a bunch of crap. Its so formulaic they miss the point of pick up entirely. Nothing about this post is fun. It's like wait this long, do this, follow this exact blueprint. It's a bunch of BS. I can sum this whole post up in four words.

TAKE
WHAT
YOU
WANT

Who cares about waiting 9 days to prove that you aren't needy and being a challenge and all this crap its a waste of time and your playing a head game with yourself.

Just be a real man with real masculine power.

There is so much depth once you get passed your own insecurities and a woman is like unable to resist you. You get to a point where you feel like you can do or say anything and it won't matter because you have such a strong reality she just can't see you any other way.

I think people get so caught up in this crap chode mindset of "doing things wrong" then they just end up shooting themselves in the foot anyways because they don't even know their own POWER. TRUE POWER is fucking unstoppable. You can call whenever the fuck you want if you are truly powerful because that entails not giving a rats ass if it works or not or if she is the one or whatever. If shes a bitch next her.


There is some good stuff in there but like honestly i think its over complicating something that really doesn't need to be so complicated.

I mean percentages of interest level? Sounds like David Dangelo and really I think that is ridiculous. That shouldn't even matter.

My philosophy, meet girls everywhere you go, meet everyone you are interested in everywhere you go, number close, set up dates, persist, never stop until you are in a comitted relationship and see how that goes but always have in the back of your mind how much value you really do have.

_________________
Ahead of my time, like I live my whole life backwards.

wonderful. and ending with someone who's got low interest in you. BTW: what do you mean being persistent? Begging? Calling her 10 times a day? And what about "strong reality"? You sound like a AFC under the influence of some drugs.

Any evidence on all these bold claims of what female qualities are and what male qualities are, and on how these traits create succesful relationship structures?

On top of that alot of this idea in the thread is based on social perceptions of gender and etiquette and has no real biological basis when it ascribes traits and appropriate behaviour.

And outside of a social time capsual I cannot see it dealing with the huge variety of personalities and relationship dynamics met in modern culture.

No. Neither of those are being persistent, that is being needy. If you don't know what being persistent is you've got some catching up to do.
A strong reality is the most important thing in pickup. It is a combination of your identity and your belief system as well as your perception of others and the world around you.

_________________
Ahead of my time, like I live my whole life backwards.

I find that very interesting, every girl I've got with since hearing about game I've used social netwrorking sites and texts.

The principles are based on doclove - a dating coach. He interviewed thousands of women. Though thousands of women doesn't mean the whole femal population but he discovered in all those 1000 women a tendency he wrote it in a book called "the system".

Yeah, I need catch up, so since you're better I give me examples of being persistent, please. I knew someone who's got that kind of "strong reality". IMO he was just a stupid jerk: My grades were always better than him, but for him that's no reason to think he's more intelligent than I am. All his former ugly girlfriend left him (I know his girlfriends because they're befriend with my former girlfriend who BTW looks like Heidi Klum). His latest conquest looks like a 40 year old with a lot of wrinkles and is gradewise as "smart" as him. For some reasons, this guy always tried to have a conversation with me, but I never made an effort to talk to him. I even said he should shut up and always tried to not sitting next to him in school. But instead of thinking I disdain him , he ran around and told everybody I hated him. 'Duh!

I've just met him. He greeted me on the street but I didn't reciprocate his greeting because he's not worth my time. Do you know what he did thereafter? He mailed me and asked whether we could "chit chat" and wanted to help me, because I hate him so much. pffft. After all the years I told him to shut up (which he never did BTW) he wanted to talk to me about his impolitnes of never stop talking to me. What an idiot!

I think he truely believe he's got a good picture about himself. But this strong belief of what reality is, is just wrong. So if having a "strong reality" means to deny reality as it is, then no, I don't want to run around like an idiot and ignore the signs.

So no factual evidence? Or anything to suggest that these claims are more than just the social norm in which this person is raised?

--------------------------------------------------------------
While the idea of the male beng the lead is currently a social percieved norm (though I'm not cetain if this is a media thing or not, I'd appreciate it if anyone can jump forward with anything on this)

From my personal experience, I can think of 4 great relationships that break this mold. And I can sight a good portion of socio-psychology dealing with sex and gender differences which blow most of this theory out the water.

Problem is that this has been written with a particular society in mind and a particular relationhip mold in head.

It's like the nuclear family in essence, yeah it works as a family but the nuclear family is not a definition of family.

This description of male and female roles and their behaviour is just that a description of ONE type of relationship dynamic and behaviour sets.


Edit: My apologies if I sound un-fair but in my time I have seen alot of pseudo-psychology and arm-chair sociology in the PU scene. And after actually reviewing the studies and material available I've found alot of stuff to be well.... armchair science.

So it's better when someone makes a bold claim about gender differences and set gender roles (for example) that this has some basis other than... "Barry reckons..."

very good post! Thanks for that

Don't worry. You don't sound too harsh. I can feel where you're come from. Sociology and psychology aren't factual science a lot is based on presumption. (wait a few days and I'll show you a graphic that will illustrate this).

Nevertheless, doclove tries to cut the odds. You mentioned you can tell 4 relationships that break his mold. And I believe you but how common is this kind of relationship. Do you understand? Further more he claimed his principles "works from Montana to Mongolia" through all ethnecities, cultural and geographical boundaries. I have to admit that the last statement is very bold but I think he's right, since I've lived for a very longtime in an Asian and Europe country, although the behaviours in every day's life is different but in dating they aren't.

1. Alot of the theories of Sociology and Psychology are based of trying to connect external behaviours with internal systems. However the statistics of the tests, don't really vary when in the same conditions.

It's a very very weak thing to try and portray psychology and sociology as merely opinion where one thing is as true as another.

2. From Montana to Mongolia, I'd be interested in how a dating coach gots his hands on the funds to do that study.

3. I can actually see how it works the world is heavily dominated by men, ESPECIALLY if you move to more primitive and tribal cultures. But what we have found is that this relationship dynamic is not the only one.

4. Those 4 don't need to be a majority, I'm not attacking whether this works, but whether it is an all encompassing reflection of how to approach a relationship, considering the good chance (which hopefully will increase) of encountering a scenario where this norm doesn't fit.

5. In dating, the behaviours are VERY different when you take a look at history and social contexts.

A great example is a place like Japan where any extroverted demonstration of emotion is an immiediate sign of weakness, lack of self control and generally considered vulgar. In comparison to the uk, where it is far more likely to be something proud and passionate.

Or when we look at marriage, this situation where the woman and man get to choose their partners for marriage (the only real LTR for a good portion of history) based on ideals of love and compatibility is a very new idea which we often take for granted.

Honestly, has this ever worked for you? You asked a girl. The girl denied. You asked a few more times then the girl admits going out with you. Did you have a fulfilling, loving relationship with a flexible giver, who's got integrety and high interest in you, then? If yes, how long did it last? Who left the relationship first?

You know, doclove's system is about finding the right one and not wasting your precious time with the wrong one.
that sounds pretty like him. lol. Regardless of what I've said to him, he always tried to befriend with me. Believing that people will like you is important when meeting someone in the first place, since it shows confidence but still holding to this believe regardless of the circumstances say is just ridiculous.

If you were a business man and you'd hold to a wrong belief, then you're sooner or later doomed to fail. So I'd prefer to do a reality check once in a while. Furthermore "being ok with who you are" prevents you from becomming better. If a society is content with their status quo society would stuck in their current situation. I'm never ok with myself, since I always know something to improve myself either it's women or business.

And "Not allowing other's reactions to you determine your state." sounds dangerously like "being stubborn". But I hope you meant being cool headed - well doclove coverd this up as well: (self)control - one of the three male strength qualities.