agreed!!

Only if you think the foundation of a good building should be wonky, flawed, prone to giving way at any second and made of sugar rather than cement.

Attack on the metaphor noted. But being PUA's not architects, could you enlighten me to how MM is wonky and or flawed? I seriously don't see its weakness

1. Assumes attraction and comfort are seperate entities, which is debateable, but the main problem is that it tries to build them seperatly and focuses on attraction before comfort, otherwise you will just end up in the friends zone.

2. Goes to ridiculous lengths to avoid making it look like a PU.

3. Constantly hiding intention, as if sex is an unworthy motive.

4. Assumes that you are lower value and must "prove" yourself before moving anywhere.

5. heavily orientated around providing entertainment rather than actual sex. DHV stories, Thumb wrestling, magic tricks.. all these are tottaly un-neccessary.

6. Portrays interactions as iverly simplistic and linear, which they are not.

And for some reason people think MM is a categorisation of how PU works normally.

When in fact MM is very specialised, contrived and abstract.

That's just off the top of my head, I haven't even glanced at the book in the past 6 months or so and I haven't stopped once to try and remember any specefic flaws. So there's plenty more if you look for it.

The main weakness I see with the MM is that it is too easy to avoid improving yourself. You can just go on using the same lame lines forever and ever until you go online whining about that everybody has already heard all the canned lines. No shit Sherlock.

You can completely avoid going into depth and learning about inner game. You can get stuck with only learning outer game.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

Im agreeing with what you are saying here, but I dont see them as flaws. As they actually work very well and have been proven time in and time out.

But if you want to call them flaws then all other ways of gaming have flaws too.

The way the system is taught makes a lot of logical sense, which is why it attracts the kinds of guys it attracts. Unfortunately logic has nothing to do with being good with girls.

I don't know bout you mate, but I deeply respect Mystery and his methods. Why? The very first days I started reading about game, I had only access to scarce information regarding pickup techniques. If I understood something, at least 5 more questions arouse in my head and I got even more nervous regarding pickup. That was like for one month....


Eventually I got my hands on the Mystery Method and it answered all my questions, gave me more than an idea what to do. I discovered what pickup actually is and found the seduction community I didn't even suspect it existed. Then I had the confidence to start sarging. And here I am now. Got a few lays.

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I can FIX ANYTHING!!!

I don't know If i quite agree with that. The method is proven, and it really IS logical.

It is not the BEST way to exclusively go out and meet women as a seasoned PUA..

But it is a good read and intro to PUA..


But it it IS true that if you become a "Mystery Method Student" And stick completely to his method...

You are not doing your job... and are severely limiting yourself.

Ok.. Now for a rant.

There is one thing about this argument that baffles me. No one seems to see ANY MIDDLE GROUND WHATSOEVER. I Mean REALLY?! YES, the Mystery Method has lame canned material that is used WAY too much, and every 15+ boy, and his mom knows about the jealous girlfriend opener. No REAL PUA should use this stuff. We Know this, it's lame. be original, learn some inner game, and be a solid PUA...

Aside from that, Why can't anyone take the method for what it is. Yes.. His canned shit is MEANT for AFC beginners. And for what it is, it works. If you are SUPER into this community and still using ONLY his stock lines, than you are dumb.

But his road map, is, and could not be more correct. It is just aimed at the masses of people trying get their foot in the door. It's a great learning tool and reference point for how the interaction should go. Take the information, which has been field tested, and incorporate it into your brain, and just ignore the lame lines that are trite and outdated..

What I'm trying to say is, the mystery method, or nothing PUA related for that matter is a package bundle. like we hear the word mystery and people go "NO NO NO, that shit's stupid because everyone heard the who lies more opener" well guess what?! you don't have to USE EVERY aspect of his game. It's not the LINES and CANNED MATERIAL that the OP is talking about. He's talking about someone who put together a road map for thinking about the interaction from beginning to end. We can just take the stuff that can be applied to more advanced PUA's, and toss the rest.. The A1A2A3, C1C2C3, S1S2S3 is very relevant to everyone you pick up whether you consciously accept that or not.

and further more, with this knowledge, though not essential, there is no added benefit of being ignorant or otherwise shutting yourself away from a game plan or roadmap that if used correctly is effective.

basically what i'm saying is you CAN use "The Mystery Method" without using HIS CANNED LINES. And I think people are failing to accept that. because the only basis of arguments I see in this thread, and quite frankly in any thread is how, its so "lame" that people use his material, but i don't think that's what the post is about.

when attracting and seducing you can't walk up to a girl and say, you are attractive, and i would like very much to take you home and perhaps have a sexual relation with you".. Just not a smart move (even in the apocalypse opener)

it's not the ONLY way to go about hitting off the interaction, but as far as i've read, its the most methodically layed out, and the most effective.. Now once again it's important that I note, that I'm not talking about his material, rather his ideology and views on disqualification. and I definitely do not agree with the notion that it's excessively trying to hide intentions, because that phase of the section lasts normally no longer than 9 minutes. and then bam, you're into building rapport

And I will probably get smashed for this, But i will agree, it's a whole bunch of over-hype that he's the best. Because he's not. we all know that. But i feel like a lot of the guys who are really into this stuff dislike him BECAUSE he's the most popular. Thats a sweeping generalization, so i don't mean EVERYONE, but it reminds me of everyone hating my high school football team because they won state 13 years in a row. Most people disliked the team and thought they sucked, or everyone hating the most popular band because they are so, mainstream. well, they probably aren't the best, but it is what it is. Mystery is the most famous out of the PUA bunch because he is the most eccentric, and dresses the weirdest. he attracts the most attention so it only makes sense that he became the most "popular" but it doesn't matter at all. He writes his shit for the AFC masses, but the theory behind it IS solid. so use it or not, but there is no reason to slam it.. he's making money off of it.. thats all he cares about.

Sorry for the novel..

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As a PUA, you must leave the girl better off than when you found her

someone finally understands me!

The thing is, all of these systems are based on fairly basic psychology. Each system then adds it's own interpretation of the information gathered from this basic psychology, to create its own "original" system. They can however be traced back to the same concepts and basic ideas, its only the execution of those ideas that changes.

What were discussing is not chalk and cheese, its cheddar vs brie. Preference is the only variable here, as all base content in all systems is the same.

Honestly, if you inspect the psychology behind attraction for yourself, you would be able to come up with your own system in about 3 months.

They are flaws, they cause un-neccessary hastle and time wasting and often create limiting beliefs and they are working DESPITE these flaws, not becuase of them. Big Difference Jando.

The MM works, but it is flawed and as such MM practitioners can rarely touch those who are in PU without MM.

Number 1. over complicates and slowsa things down.

Number 2. Is just based on a complete lack of knowledge of sexual related interactions, and if that's not bad enough on it's own it leads to alot of LJBF situations.

Number 3. Same LJBF problem and you'll get girls stolen right off you when someone with some actual masculintiy comes along.

Number 4. Again, time wasting and often UN-attractive to girls.

Number 5. Not conductive to getting laid unless you are just trying to get peoples attention and even then there are better ways.

Number 6. Your style of game is restrictive to certain situations and cannot adapt to more real world scenarios outside of Day 1 cold approach.

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Jando, they are practicaly the definition of flaws, you remove them and your game is better. Simple.

See that's true...

They are limiting beliefs..

ONLY IF you make the extreme generalization that the people who are agreeing with the "Mystery Method" are EXCLUSIVELY using the method and it's canned material and it's relative newbie AFC Limitations. If that was in any way the case, than the WAY one uses the method is totally flawed.

But thats not the discussion.

Thats what I'm talking about, the no middle ground. I've said it before, if you are using the Mystery Method completely, than your game is stifled. But thats not the point. It's the point is it's a popularized roadmap. every other guru's method follow the same basic rules of psychology... the point i think the OP was trying to make was..

Forget about the material and the basic introductions into the community. Because they were MADE FOR AFC's. there is information in his method that is relevant and vital to ALL PUA'S even advanced ones. so you can TAKE it.. and TOSS the rest.

The only thing that people are bashing are the things that we are all in agreement on anyways. Yes WE KNOW reciting lines are restrictive, We KNOW that much of the method is Aimed it people who aren't seasoned in the art of PU. WE KNOW THIS.

But Everyone seems to have the opposing limiting belief that you're either a Mystery groupie, or you must totally reject ANY info that he's EVER written, which is way more of a limiting belief than his method dictates.

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As a PUA, you must leave the girl better off than when you found her

A:Judo is a great way to learn to fight.
B: Judo doesn't cover striking or weaponry.
A: Only if your JUST using Judo, if you use Judo and combine it with Muay Thai and some escrima then it's perfect.
B: I thought you said Judo was a great way to learn how to fight?
A:......... Uhhhhhhh.......

The discussion of whether MM is flawed or not depends on what MM is... the fact that I accompany my habbit of Smoking with an incredible diet, does not mean that smoking is a good thing. Smoking is bad has nothing to do with my diet.

Similarly MM has flaws, so when we discuss MM, MM has to account for that, their is no cop out argument going, well it works if you ignore this and add to that....

You may as well ignore MM by those standards and just write a better book on PU.

You guys are missing my point here. I never said the method is incapable of getting you laid. It got me laid 10 times. I could elaborate my point but those who know what's REALLY up already know what I mean.

Also just for the record, my problems with the mystery method do not have to do with the idea of using canned lines. Canned lines that you have found to be effective have their place as long as they are not abused. The flaws of the method go well beyond that. The MP3 model is wrong.

Real life conversations are not linear and if you try to force them to be then your causing unneccesary problems and way too much in your head. The only goal should be an interaction that is the sum of it's parts but even that could be easily disputed by many.

There are many other inner game flaws that it creates in your game as well, many the result of mystery and his boarderline psychotic rants and views. Unfortunately the commercialized version of the pickup community is full of flawed methods perhaps to support their cause of getting guys signed up into bootcamps.

I can't think of any product by any guru right now that gives you the whole picture without leaving out important stuff or promoting very unhelpful stuff within the mix and while I don't pretend to have all the answers I have practiced all of this stuff and then some -- more than enough -- to know what DOESN'T work (enough to make it worth your time/money/effort).

I have had a lot of success too but not enough yet to really be able to boil down an exact science as to what DOES work that is complete but I can tell you that it is not logical.