i am interested in learning some stuff about PUA methods, but i have my doubts as to its effectiveness and i wonder if some of you guys could put my mind at ease. i'll break down some of the negative thoughts in bullet points:

*hot girls only like hot guys: this is the main one. dating is a market, if i was hot i would only date hot girls. if some average or ugly looking woman hit on me, i wouldn't be interested in a million years, no matter how funny or charismatic she was. there is no line or method she could use to get me into bed. i often hear about guys who aren't all that scoring with hot girls all the time but i've never seen it first hand. the good looking guys i know get good looking girls, and the ugly guys get ugly girls or nothing. like i said, a market.

* wishful thinking: everybody wants to believe in pua methods, because they sound too good to be true. also makes the world seem like a fairer place. hey... if you put the effort in, you can have any girl you want! likely?

* financial gain for gurus: not naming any names, but if you convince a load of nerdy "AFCs" that they can have the one thing in the world they really want, but only if they pay for the books, videos, and courses you produce... it's a goldmine right? also seems a little cultish.

* less talk more action i meet a lot of guys who talk about the game and pua methods in general who are just full of advice. very rarely see these guys in action. seems like the more desperate and nerdy a guy is, the more likely he is to be into this stuff.

*bragging rights: a lot of guys lie their asses off about the girls they've fucked. often you'll see some "10" a guy has slept with and she won't be all that, if she even exists at all. i've embellished things myself in the past. which makes me less willing to believe in a lot of the pussy stories puas come out with.

well... that's about it. i'm not saying all these views are 100% accurate at all, just like some answers.

Think of it this way.

worst case scenario ...Pua doesnt work either way see it as a placebo effect giving you the confidence to develop your own technique

now the real opinion
Im not going to say im literally diving into pools full of hb10 models
but it did get me out of that nerdy, not good enough mentality to the point where i can ask out girls and hold relationships

hope this helps

sure.. i know what you mean. it's just that before i expend time and energy on something, i like to know it's worthwhile.

100% worth it, dont let it dominate ure life, but maybie an hour a day give it a go

i say this and i have never spent a penny on any pua equipment

Your right man.

No average looking guy has ever been with a hot girl EVER. That is impossible.

There is no such thing as getting any girl that you want to. I mean no guy has ever gotten a girl that they want right?

Businessmen in this market exist to make money. If they were for real they would give away their secrets and tips for free -- that would prove they were for real.

My advice?

Don't waste your time.

As for me I am going to head out tonight and meet some people, maybe even get a few numbers from girls that I would have never talked to if I had not heard about pickup. Who knows? Maybe I might even get laid a few extra times just because I take the time to go out and meet people. Maybe I might even meet someone exceptional.

Mostly a waste of time though bro, don't waste your time. You probably have better shit to do anyways. They recently dropped the price on the Wii, I heard the new mario brothers game is wicked.

if you're getting into something, you weigh up the pros and cons, that's all.

lol.

Well I verified all the cons for you.

I'd sit here with ya and crunch out all the numbers and the odds against ya if I had time but I gotta run -- there's a party on the street for st patricks day and I plan to go talk to a bunch of girls and see where the night leads.

Have you ever seen ugly guy with pretty good looking chick? (doesnt have to be hb10)...

Well... those guys got game... They got confidence, personality etc... Girls feel gr8 next to them, secure and so on ...

Main difference between women and men is that men think logicaly, and women think with emotions....

More proofs... How many times did it happen to you that some guy who is not even close to your look had win some girl in front of your nose ?

Game wont get you every girl, but it will deffinitely give you much bigger chances to win more attractive girls .

Nowdays everyone wants only hb10's wtf?!?... What is wrong with 7s and 8s ? It really isnt that big difference except you have more choice.

The main thing in what "Game" helps you is to increas your confidence and inner game . Once when you will be really confident you will have a feeling like you can get every girl, and that feeling gives you the 'feeling' of pover to meet more girls much easier and at the end to close'em easier

Since you asked in the first place, I'm assuming you want to improve on that aspect of your life.

You have three options:

1. Continue with your life as an average frustrated chump.
2. Weigh in all the cons and dip your dick into it with a negative and skeptic attitude.
3. Say fuck it I'm going in and go FULL OUT

Depending on which path you take, this is what your life will be like in [x] amount of weeks

If you choose path #1: youporn.com will be your most visited history result. Darwin wins.

path #2: you'll be pussy footing around the idea of talking to a stranger, then once you finally grow a dick to say a whimpy "he..llo" you get rejected and give up. you'll blame strangers online for being a greedy cult with delusional goals and then pretentiously convince yourself that you are somehow morally superior and save your pride the inevitable bruising it will 'suffer'. Darwin wins.

path #3: you will start to see a change in the way not only women respond to you, but everyone around you in terms of friends, coworkers, and figures of authority. This will motivate you to dive deeper into the knowledge that is literally at your fingertips.

I consider myself one of the lucky few who have stumbled upon this shit. So should you. What's different between you and me? attitude. I can guarantee you will see very little success with women any time soon. unless you drink the coolaid with us :)

I agree since 'being good with women' is just one part of MANY in the pursuit of happiness, but that's something for you to worry about down the line once you start getting consistent results.

Right now I would highly recommend you let it be a large part of your life, and really dedicate yourself to this. Go out multiple times a week, approach during the day, and talk to at least one random woman a day.

As for the money factor... dude... you have an open internet, take advantage of it before censorship takes it away. You can find all the information you would ever need and more.

Just remember: don't be a keyboard jockey - GO OUT, 1:1 ratio - time at computer: talking to women

recommended sites:
http://www.mpua.info
http://www.seductiontuition.com
http://www.rsdnation.com


EDIT: I noticed I didn't answer one of your questions anywhere in my rant: looks

Women value different things then men. Where a man values looks more than anything, a certain woman will value, for example, a sense of humour above anything. At least that's what they both think. The truth is that both seek social value from either on a subconscious level.

What shows his male counterparts that he has a high value woman with him? shes hot.

What shows her female counterpart that she has a high value male with her? he's alpha, hes dominant, he makes people smile. What good are looks on a guy if he's stupid and has nothing with substance to say?

You have two more options:

-Magically grow facial features of a greek god, and literally 'get lucky' when a really shallow woman gives you access to her sacred hole once in a blue moon. Any other chick who might be attracted within the first few milliseconds of meeting you will see right through any of this fabled 'looks advantage'.

-Study the art of pickup and make it the girls lucky day when she crosses your path.

_________________

• 

I came to the realization recently that this community supersedes getting laid.

There are FAR too many success stories of Reformed AFC's, (Myself included) for all of the theories, and tactics to just be tossed aside as false. I went from a guy with one girlfriend all through highschool, and post-high-school having 0 success with women for about 2 years. after about a year dryspell, someone referred me onto this material....

Almost immediately my game did a 180.

I promise I say this not to brag. But in my large social circle, I am the most desired male. almost all of the girls that I am around, either want me, have at one point wanted me, or have gotten with me.

I've had girls ask me "why do girls like you so much" (while in bed with me).

And I can't do anything but laugh. I've gone out to parties, and done things on purpose that made me seem AFC.

And guess what?! I've still scored, or got numbers/ k-closes.

Why would this be, if I say things like "Hi, I think you're cute." ?!?!?! It's absolutely crazy! That shouldn't work.

THE REALIZATION: IT'S NOT THE MATERIAL

in essence, the material is like stealing mitch hedbergs comedy routine. It's NOT bullshit, but it doesn't mean anything. some certain things may trigger some sort of attraction. But I see where you are coming from. A lot of the material is for the sole purpose of making money


It's the inner game. Placebo or not, I have strategies that give me CONFIDENCE.

Confidence that radiates, and penetrates (no pun intended).

It goes deeper than Pick Up. My dear friend Peter Alexander just got an advertising job after walking into the largest ad. firm in the world, and applying the techniques to an interview (might I add that was not scheduled, as he just walked into the CEO's office)

Some people are born with this kind of confidence, others are not. The material is simply a crutch, a way to fake it til you make it.

It changed the way I talk to my mom, my boss, my friends, my teachers, everything.

Dive into it, and see if you can make it work. Realize most everything that PUA teaches you is faked confidence. If you can become confident with women, then you have it made either way.

Don't Dismiss it.

I wouldn't use these strategies if none of this shit worked.


P.S. One of my friends is 5'5 270 lbs. Fat, and quite frankly.. UGLY.

Dude lays more HOT HOT HOT chicks than most people. I've seen him take a 9/10 into his room. and he is just with girls..

Females value looks much differently than males do. Females judge looks 90% in the first 20 seconds of meeting someone. This is not to say that looking good is not good, but it is certainly not an end all.

_________________
As a PUA, you must leave the girl better off than when you found her

The last girl I dated was well out of my league and by far the most attractive woman I've ever dated, and some of the PUA techniques helped me get her. It's not all PUA techniques, but they were there in places I might have floundered otherwise.

thanks for the replies, most of the points i made in the original post were emotional feelings rather than rational opinions. i am just a very sceptical person anyway.

i know average guys can get hot girls, i've been with cute girls myself. it just doesn't feel like that sometimes.

thanks for those links, oasis.

1. You assume that males are attractive for the same reason as girls, that is not true. Physical attractiveness in males is much less important and we increase other things by learning the PU arts. Then we go for the looks.

2. Wishful thinking is an awesome thing. Yes a lot of the people have successes just because they get the placebo effect. They have their gameplan and feel confident. This is what matters so they are better off.

3. I tell you that it works and I dont get anything for it. A lot of people spend a lot of time on this plus helping others in this without getting paid.

4. Thats a generalization. You can identify the losers right away. People just repeating something they have read in a book are easily distinguishable from people who speak from experience. BTW, those nerdy guys are normally AFCs that happened to read the game or keyboard jocks.

5. People brag but as in my comment above dont trust every single thing people write. There are idiots everywhere and this world is not an exception. But as above you can see if the people fake it or not. Just like in real life.

So basically, this might ease your fears and it might not. The only question that you should have asked yourself is, are you in or are you out?

_________________
I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

mr.coffee is dead on my friend. Confidence is the one thing that sets you apart from traditionally good looking guys. I can't speak for anyone else but I myself eventually hit a point in time with my game where material went out the window. I don't need it anymore. No more thinking about my next move, or what to say next. I just go out and DO. It works.

Dont learn it then. PU is not a magic bullet. If you dont have confidence in it then you wouldnt see the success-Why waste time