I'm sat here wondering, because everyone refers to me as a nice guy and I'm sure others must have had it, is it a bad thing to be referred to and seen as "nice"?

If I think about it myself, it must be, because if someone is really nice to me, I view them as needy and at times they can make you feel a bit sick with their pleasantries.

So, my question is, how you can you lose the nice guy image? I don't want to turn into a total di?khead and with certain people, close friends etc, I can't see there being anything wrong with being nice, unless you want to go further with this close friend... but that's another issue.

Anyone else done it? What's the advice/general view?

Basically, anyone can be an asshole. It is not difficult.

You are gonna need your good guy image later on so dont lose it.

What you need to do is to give yourself permission to be who you wanna be.
That is, you need to know that you choose to not be an asshole. Bad guys are attractive not because they are bad but because they have learned to deal with situations that often come up in a bad guys life.

A bad guy can handle AMOGs because bad guys are assholes to each other as well. They practice all the time. A bad guy goes his own way because frankly, most guys are nice and its a bit lonely. So they break off from the norm but for a bad reason. Often just to break off from the norm. You are also allowed to do this, if you believe that the norm is stupid in a specific case. Pick one, there are plenty.

There is a difference between standing up for yourself and harrassing others. If someone is nice to you be nice back. If someone is trying to fuck with you (not a girl, you want this) you have the right to stand up for yourself.

You need to be able to bring out your inner jerk whenever it is appropriate and believe me, when you have improved your inner game enough, you wont need to.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

OK, you're facing a normal problem here. You understand why you don't want to be seen as Mr Nice Guy but you don't know how to do it without turning into an asshole.

The nice guy treats women in a way that he thinks make them feel good. Buy gifts, pay things, always complimentary, a total submissive behavior. This definitely won't create attraction, but don't get me wrong here, chivalry is always a good thing..


The asshole you don't want to turn into treats women like garbage, don't care about them or about what they feel. The difference is women can't control him.

So you want to take the best of both sides.

You want to treat women right but in a way that you cann show that you're in total control of every situation. You should make the dicisions, and not expect her to make them. Don't become a friend, don't do the same things other guys do..etc..

Hope this could help!

This is good advice. A bad nice guy tries to buy a womans approval by treating her like a princess (you know what I mean). That is ok if she A: is a princess, B: is your GF already and you have no need to build attraction.

In attraction you are allowed to be nice, just dont give her more than she has deserved just because you are attracted to her. Treat her like anybody else.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

Right, so to summarise my understanding so far:

• Be who you want, make your own decisions and choices
  
  Lead the relationships, don't be a pussy and let her lead the way it goes e.g. what you are doing this evening or the mood
  
  If someone else tries to belittle you or act the "hard" man, don't jump up and smack him, but deal with it intelligently, but don't be a push over and look a wimp, make them feel small without dragging yourself down to his level
  
  Whilst there is nothing wrong with being a gentleman, avoid being her bitch and running around for her, buying gifts, lunch at every opportunity, hell, maybe even let her pay?
  
  Don't compliment too much, especially where it isn't required
  
  Treat them like any other person, don't put them on a pedestal and make them the queen of your world

Am I getting it, or am I way off?

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Failure is a building block of success.

The key is selfishness

Disregard any negative connotations or undertones that you may have with that word, and look at it this way:

Before you do anything, stop and think of how it can benefit you.

Remove any mental filter in your head, just do and say what you want; one of many attributes of an alpha personality.

Of course, like with anything, you have to balance it, in this case with some 'niceness', but since you mentioned you don't want to be a total jackass I think you can handle that.

Another thing is neg and tease anyone and everyone. You come off as self-assured,, even fun, and there's no harm done as long as you deliver it the right way. Look at it as puppies play fighting. You get a feel for it in terms of timing the words:pauses, smiles, and eye contact.

There is so much more to it, it all comes down being alpha. I'd suggest you look into more articles on alpha male behaviour, there's plenty out there. Two points I would recommend:

-Don't act alpha - BE
-Don't seek social acceptance, let others seek it from you.

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I'm liking that, one thing you've made me realise is that sometimes, I could say something a bit naughty/cheeky but fun, but I don't because I'm worried of them taking it the wrong way.

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Failure is a building block of success.

I think at the end of the day you've got to allow yourself to make mistakes sometimes. I think its also part of your personality, I mean if someone already knows your character then you can probably get away with a lot.

Case in point, a guy was pouring salt into a girl's bag earlier and she was saying to him "I hate you" but not in an angry way (I have to admit I like her too. Haha.) while I've ruffled her hair.

Just make sure you don't insult her and keep an eye on how you say things. Don't worry, I used to have similar anxieties, but I saw what others were doing and allowed myself to make mistakes (and sometimes I would stumble across something I was doing right). Just treat them like you're having a laugh with your sister or something. I tickle my sister's feet sometimes and did that once to an Italian girl while crashing at her place. But not sure thats your point.

In few words its the old saying: "Its not what you say, its how you say it".

Oh and btw I do not advocate pouring salt into a girl's bag!

Absolutely not!

Sorry man, just have to disagree!

That is the opinion of someone who has not reached alpha maleness. It is the opinion of someone who thinks that an alpha behaves the way a high beta does.

A fake alpha cannot afford to share awesomeness. A real alpha has enough to go around and thus does not have to be selfish. Why would he, he has what he needs anyway.
Plus, being selfish is a bad thing and will fuck up your game later on.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

Absolutely, its as dumb as people believeing you have to be a prick to get girls.

Its more a matter of just being in control.

Assuming you're doing what every nice guy out there is doing
(complimenting her, asking her questions, buying her drinks, whatever)
if you want to "lose the 'nice guy' image", you do the opposite. Drop a neg here and there, freeze her out for a second, push her away, just do it all with a smile.
I mean it in the non literal sense, simply the idea behind it. Don't be afraid to talk about yourself or even take a sip from her drink, its OK if you think its OK. But what happens when you're 100% selfish (or 60% or whatever "crossing the line" is for this girl)? You come off as a total prick, which you said you don't want to be. So of course, use your judgment and reason to calibrate it to your liking.

I've got some good news though: you can still be a nice guy, you just have to regulate it a bit. There's a right time to compliment her, ask questions, and even buy her a drink, but I'll tell you one thing, it's hardly ever within the first few minutes of meeting a stranger.

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Oasis is right.. about freezing out... thats clutch..

Lets verify something.. There's 2 kinds of nice.. Alpha male nice, and Beta male nice.. A beta male is nice because he has to be in order to build attraction, an alpha male is nice because he puts peoples feelings into consideration..

The guys you talk about that are just assholes, are people with insecurities that got their asses kicked and heart broken alot throughout their lifetime. Thats why you'll hardly ever find a tall/strong dude who's a natural asshole, because they hardly ever gotten picked on. its always the little/weird/loserish dudes, that have gotten kicked around like soccer balls throughout their life.. SOME of these dudes get alot of girls, but they also lose the most girls.. I have friends Exactly like that. The girls they end up with are girls with no self esteem that would probably hook up with you if they weren't around. In the end an HB10 wants a guy with a good reputation..

Now going to alpha male and beta male nice.
Beta male nice: having to give the girl attention, caring about what she thinks, modifying the way you act to please her, puts what the girl wants before what he wants. This simply means, that your putting her in charge and leaving everything up to her out of fear of losing her.

Alpha male nice: Doesn't care about losing the girl, but still cares about how she feels. Will postpone a date, because he doesn't feel like it (and make up excuses, just like girls do). not buy flowers/gifts/ pay for dates, until its an official relationship.

I'm liking this gentlemen, it's all good. Any extra input would be appreciated.

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Failure is a building block of success.

I really liked the way you put it
EZO I have to disagree with you, it depends on what kind of selfishness we are talking about, there is the regular "I hate everyone selfish", which is actually a person that hates themselves
and there is the other kind, there was a video posted here once with an old wise indian guy saying that selfishness is LOVING THE SELF, which is really important!! that's the great thing anout PUA that at some point you start to love yourself, and when you do, then you can allow yourself to share it.. and you don't mind the consequence

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"StreetLight!! Stop seeing every problem in life like it's a chick you didn't hit on!"