As I've improved ive noticed this is getting worse and is compounded by the fact I live in a smaller college town and like to frequent the same couple bars.

When I was still more intermediate level or chode i could get away with it or at least be less noticed, but now im having some issues and am getting a less than desirable reputation from the feedback ive gotten, that is causing me issues with new women. Female friends have even overheard random women and pointed them out ive never talked to and heard them tell other women to stay away from me.

The last month Ive certainly noticed some women more on guard with me but attibuted it to being more centered and smooth, but not sure thats all of it now. Some of the numbers I do get now are making me take them out for diners and properly date them too. Not hey lets meet here and have a drink, its like they insist I take them out for diner early, some several times.

I've build social circles in these places but it seems like im going to have to branch out to some bars I dont like, probably alone as my few real friends dont like these other bars. Should I also consider dialing back my game some as well, some of my pick ups were getting very smooth, do any of you guys actually make it clunkyer on purpose? Ive read theory about that.

any suggestions would be helpful.

It's a good question. And pleasing to see a problem that I think only plagues PUAs at a relatively advanced stage.

I can't ascertain the root cause of your issue from your post alone - it could be due to a number of or combination of factors.

But I had similar problems (and sometimes still do) in the past. Four things that helped me:

-Play solid game; you know you can lay them quickly, but why? Let your dick have a night in and lay them on the day 2 instead.

-Show vulnerability. Don't be too perfect (or too smooth?).

-Show genuine caring. Not sure how I do this exactly but it's helped me keep the right vibe in my MLTRs; I wouldn't recommend this for people starting out because I think it's useful to go through the 'badboy' phase to learn certain mechanics, and they may get friendzoned too early. But at your stage, and certainly I have found - to genuinely care about the girl really helps. Just giving them occasional compliments, wishing them sweet dreams, good morning etc.

-Manage expectations!!!

The other thing is, girls should not be spreading bad things about you, even if you lay like a lawn mower out of control; they should be recommending your services to other girls. This is very important in the later stages of the game (at least I have found). If the girls who are spreading bad words about you are burnt sets - then fair enough - your game just wasn't tight then. But if they're previous lays, you didn't manage expectations properly.

Edit: I would add one further thing. Have you ever wondered why some "badboy" players who don't give a shit about girls never get branded as such? And they never have a shortage of girls? I have. I think it's because they are congruent with what and who they are. And again, this comes back to managing expectations. It is clear to a girl, when they meet these type of guys, what they are after. So they know what they're putting themselves in for. Once you become congruent, natural, and OK with being a laying machine...it's all gravy .

I think to some extent, depending on if you are part of an institution like a college or a closed social circle, you will always get bad rumours; but that's just the life we choose live!

xxx

I'm gettitng some pulls out the club, few of those are lays, and a lot of numbers, but the thing is im not even a laying machine yet at least nearly to the level that people percieve me as apparently, which is what sucks in a way. Thought it might be cool and help to be seen like that, but not so sure now and will probably try to blend in a bit more rather than stand out in those places.

I think most of my problems stem from the fact I have gone out so regularly and am seen hitting on girls trying to get good at this. Side of the game and coaching that isn't really talked about or warned about. I think apparently when you progress that can cause problems. Better problems to have though all and all, before chicks would signal their friends to dont bother he's a chode, now they signal them to watch out I guess.

^Yeah.

Interesting points.

I think some other perspectives from other people would be helpful on this one.

You mention you only seem to go to two bars a lot; tbh that's a recipe for causing the issue you have. If you go out a lot to do this stuff, which you do, to only two venues a lot...well...people will catch on.

I've had similar things. The amount of times I approach a girl who claims to know me or even have my number when I take their details.

Worse still, sometimes I make up funny openers pretending to be, for example, a travelling hobo (well, hobos are by definition travellers)...then they're like..."no you're not, you live in xxx you were talking to my friends the other day...". Lol. I think we've all been there (moral of the story - tell the truth, or just hypnotize them).

The other thing I thought of that could help you a lot is guys - approach guys more. I usually get a few guy numbers on a good night out too and make some guy friends. Often groups of guys will see you opening bare sets anyway and be quite impressed with your skills. But, the point is, if groups of girls see you opening loads of guys too, you become a "sociable guy" rather than a "player"...

When I 1st started this I used lines and I would use the same ones over and over and even reopened the same chicks with the same thing a couple times and remembered while I was talking. Difference at that point was they could tell I was crap and just trying to better myself, some girls would even give me a pass or see it or me as cute or whatever.

I would go out a shit ton too, like 4 nights every week. Now I go out sarging a couple nights and dates other nights, but am far more noticed. I see a lot of women watching me and its mostly because of the way I carry myself. As far as opening and starting a conversations thats not been a problem for a while, that part of my game is nearly silk at this point thankfully and I think that puts them on guard some too when Im not nervous at all about talking to them especially ive noticed 7's or 8's who I think believe im effin with them.

Main problem with these bars and branching out is I have gotten into a comfortzone. I'm older and the 2 bars I like to go to are 21 and up, and they cater more to a mid 20's crowd in town and I feel very comfortable in that enviroment and have built a social circle now where as before I did this mostly alone and would just go in anywhere. There are also more girls in the 23 to 25 range I actually perfer. Lot of 21 year olds in there as well but the ones that seem to be more mature and into the older guys and expect to be hit on too or thats my projection, but a useful one for me.

I've been to other bars in town more when i was learning, and had some success but I wont lie, I do get a different vibe or at least it seems that way I perceive it. Feel a little more like an outsider, then again could be more me projecting my feelings out there. My buddy says I should go elsewhere though if nothing more just push through like I did when I first started and get new challenges and that ive got to comfortable the way im going and need to work these enviorments too and build what I built at my comforatble places. I think that's what im going to have to do at this point anyway.

Maybe it's about how you open the sets? I was watching a dvd of Adam Lyons, and he showed how he opened and locked in. He would open and then 'lock in', which would make it look like the girl had approached and started to talk to him e.g. a girl stood near a wall, he would lean against the wall so she would have to face him, or at a bar he would order a drink and then lean against the bar, and she would be on the outside. That way the rest of the club don't see that you're hitting on her. Imagine if you approach the girl leaned against the wall or the bar and you're on the outside? The rest of the club can see that, and they will automatically assume that you are directly hitting on her, and so this might be why these girls make bad comments.

This actually happened to me yesterday, though it was with a SPAM's friend. As soon as I told her to plug my number into her phone she immediately went defensive, mentioning that I had plenty of other girls to entertain me (SPAM obviously mentioned it to her) but I'm still going to keep trying.

Maybe try different bars by encouraging your mates to branch out?

here's a youtube video of mehow interviewing sinn theres a small bit about getting rid of "player vibe" but its really close to the end of the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW_-dywW ... re=channel

I have a question for you, what is a player? a guy that can get women (desirable/preselection)? the only problem I see with being seen as a player is that it has negative connotations, be honest at all times and you won't have any problems.

Think about it like marketing a product, everyone starts going to a new bar that has opened up you are gonna start thinking I should check it out it seems popular. Let the hype build my padwan apprentice, as long as you never lie to a girl you will be fine.

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I'd say dont get too greedy if you live in a small area with limited choices. Im kind of in the same boat. You want to keep a good rep in your town. Branch out if you have too. Travel around oto outside bars and clubs if you need too.