If you've been in the PUA community for a while, you've definitely heard some of the complaints about feminism being responsible for the emasculation of entire generations of supposed "men." Most of us have complained about "feminazis" acting inappropriately self-righteous in some way or another. You can probably relate to several situations in which you have felt coerced into feeling guilt or shame simply for being born as a male. A lot of men both within and outside of the seduction community feel some sort of resentment for feminism. How should a pickup-artist think about it?

For the past several months, I've been living in a fairly remote part of South Korea. This country never had any significant feminist movements, and they never had a sexual revolution like we had in America in the 1920's. I've also noticed how much harder it is to seduce women here!*

*Seoul, the capital, is a different story. People living in Seoul tend to be more modernized in their thinking.

My options are severely limited compared to when I lived in the US. When any given population has less sexual experience overall, there are several reasons as to why any given woman from said population would be less open to having a casual sexual encounter. Standard patriarchal traditions have been long-standing in most cultures of the world, and feminism has only challenged so many of them.

These "standard patriarchal traditions" that I speak of are those supposedly tried and true customs of avoiding premarital sex, avoiding situations in which you are alone with someone of the opposite sex, avoiding any expressions of sexuality, and basically anything that has to do with a woman being sexual. America predominantly used to be this way, too, before the Sexual Revolution. In order to have sex with someone, you must have been married to that person. These old traditions are patriarchal because they were designed in a way to imply ownership on women. Marrying a woman = ownership over her vagina. Fucking someone's wife = a crime akin to thievery. The woman was something to be owned like a car or a trophy.

Feminism arose as a response to this. Feminists emphasized that women are human beings, rather than objects. This is true. Sure, some feminists went overboard by developing habits of degrading men in order to feel better about themselves, but the core principles behind feminism often involve SEXUAL EMPOWERMENT.

Men, you may initially think that empowering women sexually means that there is less of that power and choice for you, but don't be fooled by such egotistical delusions. If a woman is "sexually empowered," she feels more free to exercise her sexual nature rather than feeling constrained by the rigid rules of patriarchal society. This means she feels free to have premarital sex, casual sex, bisexual sex, kinky sex, sexy sex, and even regular sex. Imagine an entire society of women willing to have sex with other people (including you!), and actually acting on these desires. This is any society blessed with feminism. Thank you, white people.

Feminism makes pickup and seduction a hell of a lot easier. I am a feminist.

Chief, I certainly agree with you on what feminism use to be about and how it works in our favor when it comes to pick up. But when it comes to current day feminism its all about the female being above the male socially speaking, not equal to males like it was originally. And so current day feminism works very much against us in many ways. As its all about social empowerment and not sexual empowerment.

You'll find pickup and seduction to be much easier once you start seeing that women are on the same side as you, and that all conflicts are simply results of misunderstandings and miscommunications.

Insecure people love controlling what they are afraid of.

You can see them on this site describing their perfect world; "In my reality no one gives me shit, everyone is listening to me when I speak, if someone is rude to me or does something I don't like they apologise or leave my circle immediatly, I am the alpha male of my group and make all the decisions." - These people are so afraid that if their "friends"; could say what they want and do what they want they would be treated like shit.... why? Becuase they are such value sucking, boring and self obsessed chodes that when people do have the choice, most of the time, people do treat them like shit. And even if people do not treat them like shit outside of when they control, they still out of fear feel the desire to regulate who says what and who does what.

I know a couple of bouncers, and what I hear from them is that; 90% of all bouncers are complete assholes who enjoy dominating other people. It's quite indicitive of real life, people with an authoritarian attitude towards other people are rarely popular, socially succesful and for a large part get shat on by 75% of regular people.

Largly the mentality opposing feminism as a vechile of female sexual and social empowerment is dominated consciously and sub-consciously by that above attitude. It's backed by people who believe were women to have social and sexual freedom, they would not choose "them"; so they enforce social regulations, to restrict choices and install a mentality which can protect their perceptions of the world. -It's not that she is sexually active and doesn't want you; it's that she is a slut and you have standards. I have the power here, she didn't tell me to fuck off, it was ME who rejected HER- It's all just another way to try and drastically reframe the world to deny what is going on when it hurts the person in question.

Or worse it comes from men who think males are the baby-sitters of the female gender, and we need the control becuase women would destroy themseles were they given *complete* freedom from men as "women don't know what they want".


------------
I'm not afraid of Chief so if I ever meet him I don't ask for him to restrict what he can say, and request for him to be hand-cuffed in my presence. I will just talk to him. He has his freedom and I do not fear him for that.

If you really do see yourself working on the same team as women, if you believe that you are the one people want to be with when they get the choice.

Then you should be backing the liberation of people regardless of gender.

I am a feminist.

If only it was that simple.

Great, now give me equal pay

I second this Chief.

A couple of "feminist' friends of mine started ripping on Playboy for being propaganda of male chauvinism. I pointed out to them that it's thank to Playboy that women have the freedom to express themselves sexually in today's world. Hugh Hefner always considered himself a feminist and has contributed a lot to the feminist movement.

The difference should be draw between true feminism and the extreme feminism that is equivalent to male chauvinism. The extremist of feminism are the cause of degrading men and trumping women as more powerful.

PUA should be feminist as well, or rather seek to bring back the balance between the sexes. PUA should adopt the viewpoint that men and women are essentially equal, and there is no difference in status between us based on our reproductive organs.

_________________
http://www.solomonseagal.com

Anyone can walk into a bar and pick up a random girl.
The trick is to make the experience unforgettable to her.
A real PUA will make every women he encounters feel like she experience something once in a lifetime.

What you call "extreme" feminism is actually called Second Wave feminism and the "good" feminism Chief is talking about is a natural response to the overzealousness of second-wave feminism, called Third Wave Feminism.

First Wave feminism was simply the fight for women's rights--the right to work, vote, etc.

Here's a great essay on the subject by Tucker Max: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tucker-ma ... 22530.html

Your boy,
870

_________________
"Do not blame, call out, alpha male, superman, or water sprinkle any hoes. And what will be, will be." -Hobbit

http://tinyurl.com/c6lbje<-Member Journal (PMZ Only)

youre too close to the project man, take a step back and see the big picture

Bump.

Chief said


For the past several months, I've been living in a fairly remote part of South Korea. This country never had any significant feminist movements, and they never had a sexual revolution like we had in America in the 1920's. I've also noticed how much harder it is to seduce women here!*

Its a cross between you being an outsider and slightly off culture wise.
You are up against traditions,culture and a mistrust of capitalists.

I had a similar problem on my travels in asia years ago.
The cities were fine.

But being the only white guy in a hill tribe village.
whoa.
At first i did'nt like it, but after a while a noticed something.
Everybody was poor in weath but rich in spirit.Unique........!
I managed to pull.
The trick is to bond with the guys.
Total respect 100% for these peoples values. Religion and stuff.
But don't try and be one of them.

And as for feminism. I think it has back fired on them badly.
It is a good thing in many respects for people to have equal rights, but like many things that are dragged out to long it ends up doing more harm than good in the long run.

_________________
Its getting Hot out there.

Its all to easy.

I want to be a tree!

chief, are you saying we should all start reading feminist musings?

_________________
Every Saint has a Past, Every Sinner has a Future

[quote="Chief"]If you've been in the PUA community for a while, you've definitely heard some of the complaints about feminism being responsible for the emasculation of entire generations of supposed "men." Most of us have complained about "feminazis" acting inappropriately self-righteous in some way or another. You can probably relate to several situations in which you have felt coerced into feeling guilt or shame simply for being born as a male. A lot of men both within and outside of the seduction community feel some sort of resentment for feminism. How should a pickup-artist think about it?

For the past several months, I've been living in a fairly remote part of South Korea. This country never had any significant feminist movements, and they never had a sexual revolution like we had in America in the 1920's. I've also noticed how much harder it is to seduce women here!*

*[i]Seoul, the capital, is a different story. People living in Seoul tend to be more modernized in their thinking.[/i]

My options are severely limited compared to when I lived in the US. When any given population has less sexual experience overall, there are several reasons as to why any given woman from said population would be less open to having a casual sexual encounter. Standard patriarchal traditions have been long-standing in most cultures of the world, and feminism has only challenged so many of them.

These "standard patriarchal traditions" that I speak of are those supposedly tried and true customs of avoiding premarital sex, avoiding situations in which you are alone with someone of the opposite sex, avoiding any expressions of sexuality, and basically anything that has to do with a woman being sexual. America predominantly used to be this way, too, before the Sexual Revolution. In order to have sex with someone, you must have been married to that person. These old traditions are patriarchal because they were designed in a way to imply ownership on women. Marrying a woman = ownership over her vagina. Fucking someone's wife = a crime akin to thievery. The woman was something to be owned like a car or a trophy.

Feminism arose as a response to this. Feminists emphasized that women are human beings, rather than objects. This is true. Sure, some feminists went overboard by developing habits of degrading men in order to feel better about themselves, but the core principles behind feminism often involve SEXUAL EMPOWERMENT.

Men, you may initially think that empowering women sexually means that there is less of that power and choice for you, but don't be fooled by such egotistical delusions. If a woman is "sexually empowered," she feels more free to exercise her sexual nature rather than feeling constrained by the rigid rules of patriarchal society. This means she feels free to have premarital sex, casual sex, bisexual sex, kinky sex, sexy sex, and even regular sex. Imagine an entire society of women willing to have sex with other people (including you!), and actually acting on these desires. This is any society blessed with feminism. Thank you, white people.

Feminism makes pickup and seduction a hell of a lot easier. I am a feminist.[/quote]

Nice theory. Although just wondering if Thailand had a feminist revolution? Iwas with a friend out there who is rubbish with women in the west and has never had a girlfriend. I can tell you with all honesty that he would sleep with a different girl in each town we travelled to in Thailand, just normal shop keepers, restaurant waitresses etc (NOT HOOKERS!) I didn't however cus I was just travelling about with this wealthy thai girl on my arm who I later ditched when I flew home.

Damn Thai guys must hate white men lol

Should point out that Chief is Asain.

As much as you horn dogs would love to believe it, "Feminism" ≠ "sexual revolution". Even in the US, I'd say that the 'free love' part of feminism was probably a male driven agenda.

Chief, when you get back to Korea and you're looking to waste some time, head over to the Christian Academy. You might see some photos of the 'feminist movement' from the 60's there. The women from that group are now in some of the highest positions in public service and the private sector. They are writers, artists, educators, scientists, etc . . . These were tough times; some of them didn't make it. The militant leader of the time didn't take any bullshit and tossed bus loads of them into prison. (I hear this was no fun at all . . .) Do you really think that these ladies fought for 'freedom' to fuck whoever they wanted to fuck? I'd say that this agenda probably didn't even make it on to the list.

Every culture has thousands of years of ancestral karma to play out. Historically speaking, Korea is the rape victim of Asia. This is a tiny country that never had much military power. Psychologically/karmically speaking, it's no surprise to me that Korean sex work related women have reached to every corner of the Earth. It's also no surprise to me why sex is still such a taboo subject in Korea. Thailand, fortunately never had to deal with hordes of candy tossing missionaries; they do hold different attitudes to sex. Ever meet Japanese girls? Why do you think their attitudes are so different? Chinese? Vietnamese? Can you explain these differences through feminism?

Appreciating feminism for its affect on sexual attitudes/habits is like enjoying the view of the the Grand Canyon through the hole of a toilet paper cardboard.