Is it morally justifiable to lie to a girl in the attraction phase for the sake of DHV? For example, if a girl asked me about my experience with women and I told her the truth, I probably won't ever see her again. Just kidding =p, but seriously it would DLV if I told her the truth.

I watched a few of Mystery's videos. He emphasized "fake it til you make it". That sounds like a green light for cooking up the bullshit, but it doesn't sound like the right thing to do. I like being straight with people and not telling lies. What do you guys think?

..well, you can add a few white lies, if youre just beginning this shit, but don't overall lie, it's just stupid. Make the truth seem better then it is

I saw an Israelien MPUA that kissed a girl because e told her his a movie director or whatever, that shit is ridicules, she didn't liked him, she liked a character he invented. That's just RETARDED.

On the other hand saying that u have a GF or youre GAY or something like that is ok, because it will be obvious that you lied and you can all laugh about it later

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"StreetLight!! Stop seeing every problem in life like it's a chick you didn't hit on!"

You can get away with lying if you're in it for the hit & run, but later on if you like this girl, this early betrayal of trust is gonna bite you in the ass.

There is nothing immoral about lying to women. People lie all the time and some lies are big and some are small. Girls lie to us too you know. All the shit tests. All the comments.

It is all up to you. If you are going for the LTR you are gonna get into trouble if you lie (and get caught). If you just want her for a fast shag, you are safe.

Why dont you just see it as flirting, you are allowed to tell her whatever. No problems.

You just have to figure out for yourself how big lies you feel congruent with...

Everbody lies.
Lie's are part and passel when it comes to early game, i mean, most of the openers are lies, most of the early DHV's are lies, because we are acquiring someones skill set, it is artificial.

In the game, lieing is a quick way to get ahead, and as ShadowSketched rightly said, its fine for a hit and run. But if you plan on spending time with the girl, you will appear more in-congruent with each lie you have told, if she detects to much foul play, she may get concerned and that wont bold well for you.

It's fine at first, but as you progress, you should be acquiring your own real life DHV's, gathering your own personal reference points that are more congruent with who YOU are. You can give the girl a chance to like you for you, this is important for natural game, inner-confidence and a successful relationship.

The question becomes, do you feel you need to lie? If the answer yes, then its fine, as long as your working to the goal of honesty in the future. If the answer is no, the its not something you should be doing, but know one will judge your for it. As i said, everybody lies.

Don't lie just to lie, unless its a funny lie like.. "oh no, I've actually never seen the superbowl. isn't it for like college students or something' her: blah 'Wow, did you actually think I didn't know what it was, thats so silly. s'kinda cute though' something like that iunno. Overall, lie about things you don't wanna share.

You can lie WITH a girl, thats always fun. Last night these guys came up to us at our table and started hitting on the girls there, and when they asked me question I totally made up shit, believable lies, but just shit, and the girls thought it was funny and they started doing the same thing. I think not only did it make me alpha, it showed me that these girls didn't care about them, confidence booostt oh yeea. Thats kinda going into roleplaying "our own little world" type stuff. haha, how bout telling a whole long story to a couple people and your target, make it really good and funny, however you want it to be, walk away with her and say "I just made that whole story up haha" specially if its a dhv story, she'll first be impressed by the story, then by the fact you made it up. Probably best to do once isolated and talking with randoms. you'll be sneaky and suspicious..ooo lala. I don't know hoooww many times I've said "no i'm just kidding, but seriously blah blah..' Lol

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it HAS to look and sound real.

Look, YOU DON'T EVER NEED TO LIE IN ORDER TO SEDUCE A WOMAN.

Regardless of what's morally justifiable or not, lying is just one big headache that will do a lot more harm than good on many levels.

I don't care what Mystery says. Value is not about attraction. You only need to demonstrate enough value in order for it to be socially acceptable for a woman to be interacting with you. More likely than not, you already have enough genuine value to pull this off. Stop focusing on value.

If you don't have enough value in order for it to be acceptable for females to be your friend, then get off your ass, get a job, stop playing video games, move out of your mom's basement, brush your teeth, wash your ass, get a haircut, take up a productive hobby or two, and find the will to passionately make a difference in the world by relentlessly pursuing some sort of significant goal in your life.

When it comes to ATTRACTION, however, that's something else. Hint: It doesn't involve lying. It involves being a lot more honest than you're probably used to being.

Lying is completely unnecessary and actually pretty retarded when it comes to pickup. Anyone who says otherwise is still playing with the bullshit of value-based attraction game.

That's a very strong and convincing argument, Chief. After thinking about it, I can't help but agree. I guess value's just something to get the ball rolling, but value alone won't keep it rolling. It definitely takes confidence, subtlety, and the right mindset to do so.

I will take this one into consideration. If a woman asks me about something where the honest answer is gonna cause me to DLV, I'll fucking answer it and have a laugh about it, or better yet just dance around the question without giving a direct answer. Lying just to game a girl pretty much shows you have bullshit morals anyways. Thanks man.

Hey Chief!

Yes, I agree with what you are saying. The game is not value based (only up until a certain level). It is the focus on most peoples game though. Couldnt it be the case that most people feel secure in having a high value in order to demonstrate their own personality. They need to be absolutely sure about that they are allowed to. I mean, yes, it is pretty easy to just go in and assume that you will be accepted and to actually be accepted. At least it is simple if you are confident enough to do it and if you believe it. Still for some people, that confidence and that realization has not yet developed.

It is as you say, many people are still stuck in value based game. I think they are allowed to get some help developing and I see no harm in them saying that they have had an ex-GF when they havent in order to see that pickup is not a myth, to see that it is possible even for them.

I think that we often (me included) forget that we have been there, we have done that. We have developed and moved on, sure but we must remember how it was to be new small and scared.

As compared to, old, small and with delusions of grandeure.

(referring to myself here man)

"It's not lying, it's flirting"
-Neil Strauss.

Those with a real sense of security feel secure only because they are secure about their insecurities. I know that sounds like a mindfuck, but people need to start getting used to feeling "exposed" and OK with DLVs.

They can be absolutely sure that they are allowed to demonstrate their own personality by giving themselves their own damn permission despite their insecurities. I think even an AFC can do that if he realizes this.

There is a difference between demonstrating value and OFFERING value. Offering value is most definitely a trigger for attraction. Your game, as I understand it through your posts, is an OFFER of no-guilt sexual arousal. This is an offering of value.

Some might go with ^^ offering to be enough. Others will not. . . in which case you will need to offer further value.

Yes, that is true but most of the people here are here just because they have insecurities that they dont know how to handle...

Combine ezo's, chief's and kasabi's posts together and you have the answer to your question.

Kaschiezo... That would not be a beautiful sight... I wonder how good we would be at pickup!