Called her last night around 5:30, no answer (didn't leave voicemail.) Called again around 8:30 and again no answer. Left voicemail saying I would call back tonight...

Haven't heard anything back from her yet... but still haven't really figured out how to properly handle first call voicemails.

^Come on . . . you're thinking waaay too much about this. You're not a sales rep pitching the latest hand piece to a dentist office. You called her to set up a date. So you go

"Hey, I 'picked a place'. _______ on ______ st. I hear it's a hoot. Let's chat later."

Too much mental drama going on . . .

Well, last time I got a girl's number I left a voicemail and got no reply... so worried about making the same mistake.

Anyway, just got an email from her and apparently she wasn't feeling good so she turned off her ringer. May do the same tonight... but that sounds like a good sign. If she were just blowing me she wouldn't bother to explain herself.

She's not the last girl. . . and she's not your "next" girl.

It is BAD to leave voice mails i never do. Even if you say, "i will be at starbucks at 10:00, come join me". She will text you an hour later saying she didn't hear it in time. Not good bro... not good.

Just learn from your mistakes and move on. You don't want a girl to have your number after you got hers. You want to be mysterious when you call the first time. You also want to set up the first date on the first call. It always keeps them from flaking. Keep it short, grab their interest like start telling a story and say it's too long, you will finish it on the date; you have to go. Anything dude... just put yourself in their shoes. Would you have answered your call if u were her? Your being passive and boring. You need to shine.

So we got together tonight to hang out. Started off a little tough to make conversatiojn, but we got to talking and I think I did ok on comfort building. As the night escalated I increased kino, very very slowly at first... quick pat on the knee or tap on the shoulder. Eventually as we were playing a megatouch game I'd be explaining things with my hand resting on hers (which was resting on her thighs.) Played darts and did a bit more with touching arms and back...

After darts we just stood there talking for a while, and as we were both starting to glance at watches (total we'd been there 5 hours) I started feeling like she was waiting for me to kiss her. I probably delayed too long, as we both chatted for another 10-15 minutes then she started putting her scarf on and grabbing her coat. Walked her to her car, and tried to kiss her there... but she pulled back just a little and said "remember how I'm not in date mode?"

I think I mumbled something stupid like "I know, but it's just a kiss..."

We just kind of stood there for a second, I was stroking her arm and her hair a little and we talked about hanging out again soon. Then I guess I accidentally telegraphed my frustration with myself by rolling my eyes... she told me she hoped I wasn't rolling my eyes at her. I told her no, I was rolling my eyes at myself for not being bold enough to just kiss you anyway..

So I don't know. Continued to screw this up I guess...

I'm I guess what you call an AFC but that just sounds bad. maybe not from the first Mini Golf but definetly took a turn some where there after.
you live and you learn man. move on

Well, one of my friends (male) is saying that he's hung out with girls like that and it always ended up being a fuckbuddy thing.

One of my friends (female) said some girls just don't want to commit to a situation being romantic right away, but that she might still be interested.

It definitely _felt_ like she was waiting for a kiss, even after she stopped me. Or maybe I'm imagining things...