The Nice Guy Who Doesn't Have to Lie, Cheat or Manipulate Women

Thats right ! A Guy who is confident of his sexuality, does not seek approval and does not need validation, does not have to lie cheat or manipulate girls

He knows what he is worth, he knows what he wants and he is not shy of going out there and getting it.

Example:

Girl: Are you are dating other girls.

AFC: No

PUA: Why don't you ask me this question in 6 months and if we are still together I'll tell you- Being Evasive

or,

Sure I am. Why do you ask. Does that make a difference



Girl: So where does that leave me ?

PUA: We have just been Dating for a month(or whatever), Or, we have just met. Lets see where this takes us.


Girl: I would not sleep with you if you are seeing others.

PUA: Ok, thats your choice. I like you and like hanging out with you but its too early for me to decide whether I want to date you Exclusively. Cocky Funny, Push pull, sexual framing there are a number of ways to handle this question. But you get the idea I hope

The bottom line is to be confident of being honest with the Girl. You can save a lot of heart breaks and drama if you are just straight up front. You would be suprised that women would still be willing to stick around and try to win you over. I haven't had a single girl break off with me just because I am seeing other girls as well.


A Good PUA knows to Manage expectations and does not feel the need to mis-represent his job, life, dating status to women just to have a relationship with them.


If she wants to date a Doctor and you work at Taco bell then you don't need to mis represent yourself just to get into her pants. She might still like you and end up jumping in bed with you because YOU HAVE WON HER OVER, but mis-representing yourself could leave her feeling deceived.

A Nice Guy does not have to buy Flowers and Dinners to make a women fall in love with him. YES thats right ! Why would you ever buy things for an absolute stranger who you don't even know or have just met ! - How is trying to buy her expensive dinners and gifts any different than trying to manipulate her in liking you. You may choose too if that is how you think a date should be BUT You don't have to do that

The Nice Guy Dating Multiple Women

Dating more than 2-3 girls is a Full time job. But if you are up for it then being upfront about it is the best way out.

The Nice guy knows what he wants and also understands what the girl wants out of the relationship.

The Nice guy is fairly successful in dating Multiple women because he is honest about what he wants and the girls know right from the onset what the deal is going to be with him. And yes girls would still date him because they can't help being drawn towards him

If you want a fuck Buddy but she wants a monogomous relationship and is looking to get married, then you guys are on a different page. And its better to let her go and seek what she wants.

If you want a girl friend and she wants a fuck buddy then you would have a hard time keeping her committed. And its not worth the time and effort, ask any experienced PUAs in here

The Nice Guy who is Always Willing to Walk Away

Just because you are nice doesn't mean you would stick around even if the girl is bratty. The NIce Guy has standards, treats women right and expects nothing less. Women are on their best behaviour when they know that you would be willing to walk away anytime if she offers you any less - Don't ask me why that works, it just does. There is something about willingness to walk away that is attractive to women


The Nice Guy with A Passion in Life

The NIce guy Loves his work, Loves his music, Loves to read, or Loves to work out or Loves to write or what ever you do. The Nice guy has something going on in his life, he has passions in life that is other than his girl. He is going somewhere in life, He wants to get somewhere, he wants to be somebody, his life has a purpose.

Women can sense a man who has a passion in life and thats attractive. A man with a lifestyle and interest is attractive.

The Nice Guy who can talk on any topic - Go figure this one out

This is something that we all should be good at. Ask yourselves whether you can hold a topic on world economics, history, music, culture & literature. You would be suprised how some HB10s love to talk on culture, literature and history. And This could get you by the Mystery Method in the comfort zone and help to build rapport and find COMMON INTERESTS

I have picked up a Girl recently by mixing, C&F with topics on physics and maths(her inetersts) and yes she was an HB8

This would help you talk to the girl, her parents, her brother and add value to the conv. infact I have a report in here if anyone wants to read and understand the Frame better fr-closed-target-in-presence-of-dad-mom ... ht=#259617 I would not have be en able to close this one if I couldn't have been able to talk on subjects of interest to each the individuals during the pick up.

Its about giving value sometimes and not just sucking value as some PUAs believe

The Nice Guy Approaching Women in Bars & Clubs

I owe the PUA community for this. Yes the nice guy approaches and opens no different than any other guy (expect for insults).

"Did you see the fight outside", " What do you think of my Shirt", "Do I look Gay in these pants", Etc. etc..

I have done most of the openings in here except for the beach opener. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmXFtPZd6rQ - This is Money guys

Earlier I used to do a lot of Body Rocking - courtesy Mystery Method

The Idea is to Not brng her energy level down. Is to Party and Have fun !!!

To Be Cont.... I'm going to write 3 more posts on this and then would let this thread go. If even one guy gets what I'm saying and stops being afraid of being Nice and not a heartless Jerk, it would make this post worth the time I have devoted

This is a great thread. Someone should bookmark this or have this on the top like the others. I enjoy reading your threads and comments. I am looking forward to your next post. I would have given you my points but the system doesn't allow giving points to the same person twice. What a bummer.

Marc, in your opinion what's the best way to show your romantic side during a date without coming off too strong? My game is very similar to yours, though I am considerably less experienced thus far, and this is something I've been trying to figure out. I just like being romantic, but sometimes it seems like women take this the wrong way. However, it is a very real part of my character and I'm trying to find a way to adapt it without coming off as an AFC. Should you save the romance for when you're in a LTR, or is there a way to integrate it without sending off the wrong signals? It's so annoying when you're on a second or third date with a woman and she takes a simple thing like a pink rose as the "lets get super serious" indicator. Granted, it seems to be hit or miss sometimes, and when it hits it's totally worth it .

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"All the dragons in our lives are perhaps princesses expecting us to be handsome and brave, all the terrifying things are perhaps nothing but helpless things waiting for us to help them." Rilke

I think when I was a "nice guy" chode, especially when i was younger I was so clueless about how this crap worked that a lot of chicks thought I was stuck up or arrogant. They would flirt with me and I would either not see it at all or get shy and just not recepricated it. I remember some of my sisters friends thinking I was stuck up or arrogant orgionally. Looking back it only made them more attractive for a while even got a couple that told my sister go get me to ask them out, eventually they relized I was just a chode though.

Romance in The Nice Guy's Game - Holy Mother of God, This is a tough one and NOT ADVISABLE FOR NEWBIES UNLESS YOU HAVE INTERNALIZED THE GAME

Unless you have dated/slept with 30-40 girls and have got 'it out of your system' dont try this because newbies RUN THE RISK OF COMING ACROSS NEEDY AND WOULD FREEK OUT THE GIRLS

I don't think of Romance as a Cause-Effect equation

I Give her a Rose - She should feel Romantic - NO
We have a candelite Dinner - She should feel Romantic - NO
I Buy Her Gifts - She should feel Romantic - NO

It is a wave of emotions that sweeps a girl off her feet and she can't help herself ENJOY being captivated by those strong waves of emotions

Romance is setting up the environment/mood/everything around for her to feel romantic.


Instead of buying flowers before the date try looking up onliine or marking the florist near her house, preferably walking distance. Then on your way back (You don't want her to carry the flowers all through out the date) while you are walking your date home very lightly grase you fingures with hers (A girl likes to know that the guy she is interested in is attracted to her and wants to touch her). Pass the florist and very casually make a remark of how pretty the flowers look and just pick one casually and buy it for her saying something like, this is for those smiles you have been flashing at me all evening (act as if, okay fine you get this reward I'm tierd of not reacting to your smiles). NOTHING MUSHY, VERY CASUAL AND YET SHOWS THAT YOU HAVE A SENSITIVE SIDE. - Try to think through the Frame I'm setting.

Another Example some thing I like Doing:

Instead of a Lavish Candelite Dinner, Just have dinner at home, Lit some candles and switch on a dim light (Depending on how comfortable she is let the lights could get dimmer), Let her sit on the Couch and YOU SIT ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE NO WHERE NEAR (Comfort for the Girl) and maintaining strong eye contact TALK TO HER. Shuffling places while cooking together you could run your fingure tips on a girl's hand from shoulder to her wrist and just walk away. Giving her every sign that you like touching her but in a romantic and non needy way- Getting it ?

Once You have had a romantic Date Don't Do it for the next 4-5 Dates. Let the Romantic Date be more like a sweet Drug to her that she is craves for.

Do not Overwhelm a Girl with your romantic side.

There are numerous ways to show your Romantic Side but the idea is to use every date to show a different side of your personality. Let her work to get to know you and FALL for you, every side of your personality. Hence Dont repeat romantic dates frequently

The Nice Guy Holding his Cards to his Chest

Ageed you are a nice guy but that doesn't mean that you tell a girl everything about yourself, your feeling etc etc.. The way you feel about relationships, your family, your friends, your life, your job, your ex girlfriend, yada yada..is YOur Personal Business and She has to Earn the right to Know those things about you. Let her work but not struggle (there is a difference) to get to know you better. It is Okay for you to be Evasive, it is Okay for you to not answer all her questions and be interrogated.

If you asked Bill Gates How much money her has in the bank do you think you are going to get an answer though his net worth is all over the news !

The Nice guy Needs No VALIDATION


This is the THE MOST IMPORTANT WORD THAT I LEARNT HERE IN PU THAT CHANGED MY WORLD

I was pretty popular in school and college and being friends with girls wasn't a problem. Hence some guys didn't like me much, and that bothered me. I wanted everyone to Like me, Why wouldn't someone Not like me ! I even tried to please people, wanted all and every guy in the room to be my friend. But, then when I got to know from a close female friend that it wasn't me that they hated but the fact that they couldn't be me. I just gave up but didn't understand why I felt bad until I came across this word in PU.

This alone changed the way I was feeling and my relationship with people. I no longer seek validation or want everyone to like me. I know the people who matter the most to me and go about doing what I think is the right thing to do and doesn't hurt others. And I can see now that I'm very happy in my world and seek no approval I have more friends and relationships than I ever had before. Also the fact that we are no longer in High School and people are matured haha

The Nice Guy or The Guy With High Value Doesn't Need to DLV Anyone or Tall ILL of Others

I was at a bar with a good friend of mine who is a complete Alpha Male, more of a cave man. With all we friends talking someone said something about another classmate and what an ass he had been to another person. My Alpha friend took a sip from his glass looked at the guy talking and said something like "Lets not talk about the guy when he is not around to explain himself" . At that very moment my respect for my Alpha Friend just grew leaps and bounds. He controlled the entier Frame with 8 of us Alpha Dogs with just one simple sentence. I know that all of us had nothing but respect for the guy at that very moment.

The Guys with high value do not Gossip like women, we don't need to bash
guys or girls behind their back, we don't waste our time talking about people.

I could explain this with more examples of how women feel more comfortable around guys like these but I guess you get the point.

The Guy with Character does not change as a Result of Sour Events

My Girlfriend cheated on me - So I'm going to cheat on the next 5 girls I date

I got dumped - So now I am going to Treat Girls like Shit

My Wife Cheated on me - So now I'm going to only date married women

Okay so we all have got stories, stories of girlfriend cheating, Someone's wife cheated, parents abandoned, teachers hated, Girls ignored, Best Friend Slept with Girlfriend, Betrayal, abused yada yada yada... SO FUCKING WHAT ? WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU AND WHY DO YOU FEEL THAT THE WORLD OWES YOU NOTHING BUT ONLY GOOD

Life is a Bitch and its going to hit you down everytime you rise But ask yourself are you going to give in and be bitter about it or are you going to rise up and not treat people the same unfairly way that you were treated - No one can answer that for you and its a personal choice.

Life will never be what you want it to be. You will never fuck Cindy Crawford ! NEven Mystery or David D or Ross Jefferies can't get them !!

Its easy to jump across the fense and start being an asshole but tough not letting the nice person in you die. I read this post a few days back and have respect for these guy a-meditation-on-struggle-vt24770.html

Hey Marc, thanks a lot for the post on romanticism; it really helped answer a lot of questions of mine. Well for today I have two questions for you. First, do you have any tips on college game as the good guy archetype? I am particularly interested in this as I am transferring to a George Mason University this semester. Classes start on Tuesday and I want to have somewhat of a gameplan worked out. Already have the number of a pretty cool HB 8 to get me started, but working out the approaches is what I'm trying to figure out. It's not a party school.

The second question is one which has been bothering me for awhile. Since I started this PUA stuff, I've been making a conscious effort to show more of my inner game. Unfortunately, this has lead to a few female friends suddenly idealizing me as "Mr Perfect". This could be great and all but I'm not perfect, nobody is. I mean, I want to maintain the bonds I have, but this perception I seem to be conveying is causing them to completely misjudge me. I'm starting to get the feeling that they see me as someone who could be taken advantage of, which couldn't be further from the truth.. So how do you handle this odd "White Knight Effect"? I know they're just looking out for me, and I'm flattered to see that they care about me that much, but a friend shouldn't be an idol. I realize this could sound egotistical, but I hate being handled with kid gloves.

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"All the dragons in our lives are perhaps princesses expecting us to be handsome and brave, all the terrifying things are perhaps nothing but helpless things waiting for us to help them." Rilke

I thought I'd keep questions for later but...whatever, let me get to it.

Congratulations on transfering into the university !! Way to go man !!!!

Nihro, in your PM you had complimented me of being a role model which is very kind of you, though there are accomplished people in the world outside of PU that you should anchor as role models. But I'd like to be candid with you in my reply and I hope you would understand and follow my advise.

Forget the Game for now, ditch the routines. Focus on developing a strong social circle and friends in college. The relationships & friends you make when you are 21yrs old in College are often strong bondings for life. You would seldom experience that bonding with people the older you get. The female friends that you'll make, the guy buddies, the alumni base, the juniors at the university they would all be your Network in the real world and that should be your main focus.

College is a place where you develop interests, acquire skills and you get exposed to studies from varied fields. Sports, competitions, projects, debates, class discussions, travelling with friends they all help hone your personality, something that goes a long way in life and would help you with the ladies forever. Give yourself the chance of Natuarlly being a social and attractive guy and the chances are you'd never need to learn 'neg theory or talking over the shoulder in a 45 degree angle with a girl '. MAN being 21ys old is great and there is nothing like being back in college, don't miss out on these years of your life. Look around in this forum, most of the PUAs that you see are social retards including some MPUAs also. Drug, alcohol, sex, porn addiction, you name it. Some of these guys are just trying to fill a void in their lives; when they get tired they would turn to God, religion, meditation or whatever people do . You have been given the gift of education, utilise it.

What helped me be popular with girls in school was the fact that I was good at academics, sports and was prof. top choice for representing the school in competitions. I led teams in more than one sport, enjoyed my life, had goal and knew where I'd like to be after graduation, I was going somewhere with life and wanted to be someone. I was the first one to raise my hand and answer in the class, the one who would be thinking about a concept and surface an issue, the one who could hold his frame with women, make them laugh and enjoyed their company as much as they enjoyed mine.
-I'd let you know more about me someother day may be.

But what I'm trying to say is, you can apply all the basic concepts of PU such as leader of men, high social value, not making women the centre of your life etc. etc.. while in college also. The RULES OF ATTRACTION DON'T CHANGE WHETHER YOU ARE IN COLLEGE, WORK, A BLACK TIE EVENT, A BAR OR A CLUB, OR IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY, CULTURE AND SOCIETY. The degree to which you can freely express your attraction differs but the buttons for triggering it is consistent across cultures and geographies.

Word of Caution : College, work etc. is what I call as closed communities .i.e everyone knows everybody. Hence 'the word' spreads around and people get reputations very early, something that you'd find tough to break out off even after you graduate. The girl would have a higher ASD to protect their reputation The Fat dorky guy who wears smelly socks would always be remembered/tagged as that even if he becomes a sauve professional later in life. So, I'd suggest that, in such an environment you should make it easy for a girl to come to you than the other way around. She should be the one calling you, showing up everywhere you have a class, initiating contact etc etc.. Its different than being at a bar.

Let me know if you are understanding and would like to dig more into any specific aspect.

On the first day of class most people are scared to ask questions and share their thoughts because they feel they would make an ass of themselves. Think of this as your Opportunity. Learn your lessons before hand and ask questions and share share your opinion. Have a good interaction with the prof. in class discussion and try to stand out.

Go ahead and introduce yourself to a few girls and have a quick casual chat and Walk Away. They are going no where. Get to know the girls in the class as well as the guys. The idea is to get noticed and develop a rappot.

Don't be loud and stopping prof. to ask questions everytime, that would look like trying too hard and being an interrupt. - Its annoying.

You could ask your HB8 for coffee to catch up on first day.

I'm joining her and her friends for dollar beer night at the local watering hole after class actually . Also, I didn't want to make it seem like women are my first focus in college, couldn't be further from the truth. Just trying to get my information down ahead of time. I've figured that that's how my game works, I just absorb every definition and strategy I can and then when I'm in the field I use the basic frame work for natural game. I'm not the biggest fan of routines. I'll keep you posted on my first day/night out, should be an adventure.

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"All the dragons in our lives are perhaps princesses expecting us to be handsome and brave, all the terrifying things are perhaps nothing but helpless things waiting for us to help them." Rilke

This tells me your inner game needs more work, its not yet there.
Oo Oh !! being on a pedestal is tough man !!! Deap down you like that even though you wouldn't agree with me.
We have a problem here. Women are nurturers by nature but they don't get attracted to men they have to mother ! You are showing too much of your NICE VULNERABLE SIDE which is what is causing all this.

The more I read all this the more it tells me that you are enjoying deep down the affection, nurture and caring you are getting from these girls. There is nothing wrong with that, knowing your personal story on another thread.

We all like a nipple to suck but whether we fuck the pussy later is the difference between being treated like her lover or her son...lol

Heh actually I would have to agree. However, knowing myself, if that continues and I don't kill it soon I'll end up using it to my advantage and that's not the right thing to do, nor would it help my game in any way.. So, I sort of like and hate it. Either way, it's going to harm my personal growth if I don't kick it in the ass. I have a plan for that this week though, I think.

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"All the dragons in our lives are perhaps princesses expecting us to be handsome and brave, all the terrifying things are perhaps nothing but helpless things waiting for us to help them." Rilke

I really like this thread, probably one of the most important ones on this forum. If you are sociable, confident, funny and give off sexual vibes then you have no need for game really.

My Final Thoughts on this Thread

The Nice Guy considers his niceness an Asset

Niceness, compassion and etc.. all these qualities are Assets that a PUA should not fight to get out of 'his system'. If you have internalised every single thing in this thread (such as having a backbone, not being easy, not wearing your heart on your shoulders etc etc..) and get the mindset then you should have no problems in attracting and dating multiple women.

Now GO OUT AND MEET PEOPLE in the REAL WORLD

There are tons and tons of girls out there who spend hours getting ready, putting their makeup for hours before hanging out at the bars and clubs. They try every single day to meet a guy like you someone who can rock their world emotionally and sexually. Get the hell out there and give them the opportunity of meeting you