Ok.. I'm going o try to get my thoughts on screen.. and I may realize my own answer once I see it in print, but here goes..

I'm a (relatively) older man (just turned 40). I look about 25, keep myself in phenominal physical shape, and look much younger (usually get carded).

My situation is that I was a wuss and allowed myself to be bullied into a relationship that basically kept me from really exploring pickup from roughly the age of 24 through 36.

That being said, once I realized what I had done, I set about fixing it. My plan was to learn the basics of how women work and how they become attracted. Then to understand exactly what I was looking for. Then to find a high quality girl who met my criteria, knowing I had the skills to keep her happy, then build a fulfilling relationship.

Here's where the age stuff comes in. I initially started trying to meet women in their late 20s, early 30s. (I was 36 at the time) and I wanted to make sure she was young enough for kids if it worked, but really learn with the right type of women. What I found was that women in this age bracket (the highly intelligent, good quality women) had already been with many men who had very good game, and were not very patient with men who were still learning to really spark attraction (and why should they? they already had some of the highest value men around) so even though it was flattering that these highly attractive women would give me a chance, they didnt really stick around long enough for me to really learn anything. Also, there was the initial problem, especially in night game, that older women usually thought I was lying about my age when I would tell them I was older than them because I look so young (and they usually shut me out immediately) so I was having a hard time learning anything.

Then I decided to work with younger women (23-27). I reasoned that since they were in less of a hurry because of their biological clocks, they would be more forgiving of a guy learning and would give him time to prove he had what it took. And for the most part this turned out to be an accurate assumption. Also, it proved much easier to meet women of this age at first, because women in this age group were hitting on me constantly anyway because I looked so young. I learned quickly that once I gave my true age, these younger girls usually got a little creeped so I would just avoid the age question and let things proceed (I hate to lie).

Well here is where it got wierd. I had a phenominal amount of success with the younger women (at least initially). I would meet them frequently. Could date/ bed/ party with them frequently. My sex life was relatively good and I really enjoyed their company. But.. there seemed to be a wierd connection saparation. ..

to explain.. I found myself on a couple occasions becoming very attached to a couple of these girls. (not just anyone who was havng sex with me, but those women who showed phenominally strong character and positive, respectful outlook on life). Now although these girls enjoyed my company and were attracted enough to sleep with me, when I would try to escalate into a relationship would basically say they werent interested and leave.

Now I realize that even though I may have the energy, looks, and personality of a younger guy, I dont have his life. I dont have the out-of-college friends, beer parties, etc. So what would happen is these women would feel like it wasnt quite the exciting enough situation for them. But the other side is it seemed that these women being so real would cause me to be highly attracted to them, more that i felt for older women i dated.

so i realize i need to develop a younger mans life for now, but is there something even deeper due to age? here's why i ask.. i went out tonight. my goal was to build social circle/ social value. so i went in with the idea i would talk to anybody who seemed interesting and seemed like someone i would like to hag out with another night (M or F). I also decided to be young. I remembered what it was like to be 24, and just acted that way. I figured who cares, I'm just learning and meeting people.

so i start off beong the mac daddy. im just having fun and i have girls coming up and asking me to dance, girls telling me i 'have it going on' etc. great night.. then i meet this girl who is really hot and digging me... then she says 'are you like 38?' and im shocked.. im not hitting on her, told her very little about me.. how can she tell? then it dawns as im driving home, im not clumsily chasing girls like 20 somethings do.. im drinking and dressing well.. and she has enough experience with men (being so attractive herself) to pick this stuff up that she just knew..

so even though women may date and enjoy you if there is an age difference, is it impossible to get them to passionately love you if there is such a gap? are the differences so obvious to a woman? or is this a lack in my game not related to age?

love to get some feedback on this..

thanks

I think it goes both ways..

Look at yourself, you can passionately love a girl despite the age gap, so why won't they?

_________________
"StreetLight!! Stop seeing every problem in life like it's a chick you didn't hit on!"

oi listen up, you need to get your goals straightened, in your case they may be finding a wife. So its unlikely a young 20 year old will be that willing to commit, so i suggest to game older women.
id say you have another 10 years in gaming community, but after then if you have no wife just flings on the side where does that leave you?

girls are relatively forgiving about age- 10 years shouldnt matter, so play your cards right, get a girl and settle down.
"the only way to win the game is to leave the game"
-neil strauss

hey guys,
those were great replies.

for StreetLight, you really got me thinking.

When I was younger (before that LTR, and even shortly after that, before I got serious into gaming), girls would very often fall in love with me. Now I didnt consider them to be the highest quality women, but they were attractive and many men would have been happy with them.

I always assumed it was just because I was not going after the highest quality women and therefore was getting women who were just happy to have someone like me and that since I was now meeting and dating women of higher character, they just did not find me as special a catch.

But when I look at it some more, one of the things which has changed is my strength of character. Before I found out about PickUp, I knew what I wanted and what my values were and almost never wavered. I realized that this trait is what I am finding most attractive in these women. Once I decided I would try to really evaluate what I needed to do to make myself attractive to the most desirable women, I was willing to reconsider all aspects of my personality and values. Not necessarily that I would change, but I would definitely consider many things I had not before.

I of course found things that were preventing me from presenting my best self to women, and by changing them I was meeting higher quality women. But a consequence of this is I began to start questioning everything and now my character is not so solid and is changeable and bends as I try to mould it to find what will be the best for me. Its kind of like when you fix a car and you take it all apart, but havent put it back together yet. Technically anything can go anywhere.. lol

So it makes perfect sense that once I put it back together and solidify it, it would be possible for women to feel that strength of character again and that may be what they need to start falling for me again. (and now that i think about it, older women have not been falling for me either)

Thanks!! I think you really helped me find the path to a very good answer.

For style101:
You may be right. there may be some goals confusion.. and I am trying to work that out. Once I got out of that LTR (I was actually 34, but I kind of went back to my pre-24 ways until a girl I really liked just stopped me short from getting anywhere even though she flat out admitted she was extremely attracted to me). so i started in this community at 35, and I kindof panicked.. i thought "i only have 5 years to figure this out, learn my character, find a woman, and get married if i ever hoped to have kids..." so initially i was all about LTR, making it last, etc,

I realized there were some challenges because the pressure of a LTR search on a woman magnifies anything that she would have an issue with because she is now thinking about having to deal with it for the rest of her life. So although it was scary, I realized I needed to spend some of my precious 5 years refocussing on STR (short term relationships)/ dating/ etc while I worked this stuff out and could then present myself properly to women to consider LTR.

So technically my search *is* for a wife, and I always have an eye out for the potential to go that way, but I am also trying to make sure I have a good handle on this stuff before I go back to the LTR search. And I do believe that even most of the younger girls (over 25 at least) given the right guy will consider LTR/ wife someday. And truthfully, lately, now that I think about it, older women are giving me the same reaction as the younger ones.. like me a lot, but no LTR.

So right now my focus is on making sure I have options (not a lot of women, but the ability to meet them if I desire), escalating to dating, and checking my needy/ wussy issues (and now solidifying my character) while I try to develop deeper emotional connections.

But I could see how this could be very confusing to women as I probably wind up speaking one way and acting another or something like that. And that probably also seems like lack of strength in convictions and character. I need to really pay attention to focusing and communicating my message correctly. Its also doing right by her to be clear what she is getting in to as well. I think that is really good advice to watch my message and I need to work on that.

I think there comes a point where we know we have this handled, and then we can move on to the next thing (LTR/ wife/ etc), but until then I need to be clear about what stage I am in.

thanks for the feedback!