I've been wanting to write this post for sometime now. This post is not to challenge any concepts of being jerks that works for some guys but just the way I have been able to attract, pull, maintain relationships and make numerous women WANT me over the years. I would write this post in parts with examples from real life; some my own and some of very close friends. Like always I encourage criticism and alternate view points

In this forum I have read numerous hate(for girls) posts from guys, where they are PROUD of being a jerk to women and consider that as Good 'Game'. Guys start off as vulnerable boys scared of girls and then after a few months of sarging and success they feel that they now have the Power and right to 'give it back' to girls who have ignored them all their lives.

I AM A NICE GUY - AND YES I AM FAIRLY SUCCESSFUL WITH WOMEN

- I am NOT the guy who tells a beautiful girl "Your makeup looks good, did you audition for a Clown's job in the Circus"

- I am the guy who tells her "wow you look great, I like your make up"..and then give her a few more tips on how her eyes could look bigger by applying eye liner a little differently.

- I am NOT the guy who tells a girl "Your Dress Looks Good but WTF is wrong with your Shoes"

- I am the guy who compliments a girl on her shoes and then goes on to talk about shoes and style

All of the above compliments are given with confidance. There aren't with the "I want you , you should like me" attitude. BUT just in the same way that an art lover talks about a beautiful painting - With genuine simple statements of appreciation

The Guy With A Backbone

Being nice does NOT mean that you don't stand by your believes, your core values, your Self. WOMEN DON'T GET ATTRACTED TO MEN THAT THEY COULD WALK ALL OVER.

A Short Example:
1) One of the girls I went out with was quite popular, beautiful and outgoing. Needless to say that she had dates lined up all the time. These guys were taller, better looking than I was . I called her up to set up a date and gave her a day that I could meet and she said that she was busy and doesn't MIND seeing me the next Day. I told her fine, its too sad that she was busy because I dont have any other days that I could ACCOMODATE her and after a short chat I kept down the phone telling her that she should call me if she wants to see me again. 2 weeks went by and I didn't bother calling her back. Then out of the blue after 2 weeks She calls up, flirts a little and then keeps dropping hints that she would like to see me.

I didnt let my ego come in and went ahead and set up a date with her. After 3-4 dates she told me something I'd never forget, She said " You know I have never called up a guy back, they would always call me. Normally whenever they give a date I would always propose otherwise and they would be happy to see me when ever I AM FREE. I wanted to see you back because you are the first guy who never offered another date and you didn't even bother to call me back. (Then Playfully laughingly she said) Who the hell do you think you are haha "

2) I was dating this girl who once after our date kept complaining that she doesn't like one of my female friends, my car wasn't warm enough blah blah. I stopped at a gas station, called up a cab from my car, gave her $20 and told her that she could take a cab if she wanted and call me when she is in a better mood. And that I love my friends, people who have been with me always and unless there is a real good reason, she should be respectful about the people close to me.

No she did not get off the car, And yes the complaining stopped and yes we continued to date for the next 3-4 months

The Caring Guy

A Nice guy isn't afraid of showing his caring side to people. He is the guy who listens when a girl has a problem. He is the guy who, WHEN IN A RELATIONSHIP, would cook a meal for his girlfriend because she is late at work and tired. He is the guy who offers his coat to his girl on a cold windy night. He is Chivalrous - for those of you who don't know what that means, he would open the door to the car or doors in general, he would walk on the outside of the road when walking with a girl, he would offer his seat to a lady. - Another example here,

1) I and my buddies were at a bar watching an Irish Band. In walked a girl with her Mom( 55-60 yrs old), dad and her cutie brunett sister. Some of us were standing and some were seated at a tall table. When they stood next to me I offered the mother my seat - saying that she would enjoy the band much more if her feet were rested. I could see the mother's and both girl's face lit up. The mom said that it was nice to know that chivalry still exists. I chatted with the daughters and they had been back from a hockey game and had their parents visiting.

Yes I # closed the brunett and Yes we dated for a little over a month. That night I opened 11-12 sets and must have #closed 4-5 girls. And every set was very was very warm and almost pre-opened for me. Some of the sets had seen the gesture and even commented on it. They were All Trying to BE NICE TO ME - Strange but true, niceness is like a virus that spreads


2) I approached a mix group and within 15 minutes were seated in the VIP Lounge with them. I hadn't decided my target yet because this was a big group with 6-7 beautiful girls. One of the girls ANNOUNCED that she was going to the bar and all the guys who were engrossed listening to my story just ignored her announcement including her boyfriend. Her friend got up and at that moment I then stopped my story and very polietly told them that the bar was crowded and offered to walk with them. I could see instantly that every girl in the group giving me an acknowleding smile. This girl wasn't even my target since she had her boyfriend. After we got back I could sense all the girls in at the table wanting to strike a conv. with me and know more about me - Pre Selection or what ever MM calls it.

I sorted my target by the end of the night and we all were walking from one bar to the other. It was a little cold and non of the guys offered their coats to the girls. I offered mine to my target and she accepted it with a BIG GRIN on her face.

- Yes dated that girl very briefly

The Goofy Messing Around Guy

I enjoy being Goofy and mess with girls. It sets the stage correct right from the beginning !! Here, messing around means being playful, the best friend test, accusing her of trying to cast her spell on me, accusing her of hitting on me, thumb wrestle and cheat in it , writing PEN15 on her hand, the smile test, the best friend's test -

When on a date, I would tell her how we would be divorced soon if we were ever going to get married- Why, because even after 3 dates she hasn't offered to cook !! That our kids would have to eat at McDonalds everyday and how we wouldn't be able to invite guests over because she would feed them half cooked meals !! - all done in a goofy messing around playful way.

I cant even begin to give examples of this because there are millions.

The Good Listener

A common Myth amongst PUAs is that if you listen to her a lot you would end up being her girlfriend-Very True. But if she is opening up to you, wants you to know her better, wants to share her dreams and passion with you then WHY NOT. She is INVESTING IN YOU.

Example: Once I visited a bar at a renouned chain of hotels after work. On a weekday it was fairly quite and there was this cutie 26yr old Attorney with her friend at the bar. We struck a conv. and for an hour I was being my goofy fun self with them. Then after sometime she and I started having a 'real' conv. It seems she was Great in school but at time went by she wasn't able to perform/accomplish as much as she would have liked or to the best of her abilities. Her conv. from there went to family, friends, her unsuccessful dating life, her great travels, about passions, her childhood sports etc etc.. I was sooo wishing that Rafiel Gamble from this forum would have been there to teach me some anchoring tech. Because this girl was getting deep into her feelings. But I did fine We didn't even realise at what point her friend said 'good bye' and left the two of us to talk.

I through out the time I was getting to know her, putting in my funny comments and ESCALATING PHYSICALLY. I ENJOYED getting to know her and it wouldn't have been possible without I being a good listener and asking appropriate questions to show interest.

- Yes that ended up......

More to come later............

Nice Guy = Bad
Good Guy = Good

This is a great post. I don't hold the communitiy in very high regard but posts like these always show there is a difference. Shame more people are not like you.

Girls love a nice guy, they just love a confident and funny nice guy who is stable and has a backbone.

I completely agree with you man
i think the whole "nice guy finishes last" thing is a load of bollocks.

I too am naturally a nice guy, and i dont intend to change no matter how many times the pua community tell me to. Anyway as im sure you guys will agree mix the "nice guy" with an abundance of confidence, wit and charm and your always gonna be onto a winner!

Keep it up man, I'm going for the same game as you I think. It would be nice to get a feel for how to approach this, as most other material tells you to kill this side to get with women. I've been trying to tow the line without losing the good guy image, and it would be very helpful if you would elaborate on your approach. Lol lately I've been going for the "good guy?" approach which seems to work pretty well.

_________________
"All the dragons in our lives are perhaps princesses expecting us to be handsome and brave, all the terrifying things are perhaps nothing but helpless things waiting for us to help them." Rilke

Nice guy, bad guy...

Why can a dude be both?

I'm sometimes the good one, sometimes the bad one.

All the advantages, none of the flaws.

_________________
"[Cool is] a heavily manipulative corporate ethos. ”
Kalle Lasn

"Motherfuckers best belive in....That you are fucking with the best" - 3oh!3

Teasing is a battle plan for what Shakespeare called “the merry war.”

Dude, im so happy that you wrote this topic. Ive been struggling alot with this issue, because my friends who are naturals behave exactly the way you do, and get like tons of girls just coming up to them and hugging them and kissing them and opening them all the time wherever they go and they dont really do much of the community stuff at all.
The community has basically thought me to be almost the opposite of that stuff and i wasnt seeing any of the same results from practicing this stuff. So i just didnt know which side to lean to, or how much of a nice guy i should be and that stuff, but i have a pretty good idea now from your post.

Thanks man.

I feel better now.

I encourage readers to read the examples of my interaction to understand the concept of being Nice and not mistaken it for being week. I was going to take time to write the next post but I don't want a bunch of newbies to read the first post and then start going out there and kissing up to girls.

Calibration

This is the single most place where I believe most PUAs make a mistake. I want to talk about calibration in an interaction as well as approach.

So if you are in a club and you see a HB10 who every guy is kissing up and trying to please; in such a situation going up to her and giving her a compliment would make you JUST THE NEXT GUY. She is already receiving a lot of validation from the guys and You don't want to do that. How do you STAND OUT FROM THE CROWD Mystery uses the 'Bird Opener' which could be funny if she is on the same level of humor as you are. In the Movie 'Hitch' Will Smith used a very smooth approach and thats what I'm talking about. Something that she hasn't seen before, something that is out of the box.

I normally open 2-3 adjecent sets and forward or backward merge them. When you are surrounded by 7-8 girls believe me every girl in the room has noticed you already !! And if you are having a lot of fun with these girls, dancing with each of them then now no longer are all eyes on her and you are the most famous guy in the room. after the social proof you could use that to make an approach. I'll leave upto you guys to find your style and think of the approach. I just want to explain calliberation here.

Now, if you see that one girl is in a group and all her friends are getting all the attention and she is just getting cut off from all the attention that guys are giving the set. Then you could walk up to her and start a conv., say something that makes her feel no less, use all the 'Game' that you learn in here, the thumb wrestling, the firtling etc etc.. to make HER FEEL GREAT for the next 15mins. You could use that as a warm up set But there is nothing wrong to use your PUA skills to make someones day. And not always do you have to be in a rush to approach the Hottest girl at a club. BTW, women notice that. They notice if you are being friendly to everyone, don't ask me why but nothing misses a girl's eye.

Again about calliberation while on the 1-3 dates, being nice simply means not taking value away from her but if she is bitchy like the one in the example on my earlier post above than be confident to call her out on it. But if the girl has put in all the time and effort to get ready for the date, she is looking forward to it, She is excited, she is enjoying herself then don't NEG her or be an asshole and kill her excitement. Flirt with her, be Cocky Funny etc.. to trigger emotions in her that makes her want you even more. Let her talk about herself. Since she is already in comfort, you could use sexual framing here along which kino escalation to take the date to the next level. (BTW KINO SHOULD START RIGHT FROM THE FIRST TIME YOU APPROACHED HER. IT IS WIERD TO KINO LATE IN THE INTERACTION !!)

The Nice Guy who LOVES Sex

OH YES !! There is nothing wrong is wanting sex and if thats what you want then you can get there by not being a JERK OR AN ASSHOLE.

PHYSICAL ESCALATION IS IMPORTANT and COCKY FUNNY WORKS GREAT. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ESCALATE Physically.

Most guys end up in the friend's zone because they spend too much time being well....Their friend !! In Physical escalation 2 steps forward one step back works like a Magic. She should be fantasizing about having sex with you. This video is pretty good to understand the concept of a woman fantasizing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQiRtJ6uumk - This is Sexual Framing and CHIEF in this Forum, though just 20 yrs old, is pretty good at explaining that. He has a post on Sexual Framing/Attraction that I'd recommend.


Nice Guy Who Likes to Spank a Little

OH YES !! I like to reward a girl in the PRIVACY OF HOME by just giving her butt a 'love tap' when she has done something to please me.

E.g. If she has cooked me dinner. After food when she is taking the plates away I would just spank her once and if she askes I'll tell her its because she has been a good girl - Picked that up from someone online

A nice guy is not afraid to go for what he wants but he goes about it in a way that doesn't HURT or INSULT people.

Lets continue this thread later....

NICE Guy Who Respects People and Relationships

This is one Topic that I've been wanting to write about since the 1st month of my PUA journey. Having the Skills of a PUA (Most guys incl. me aren't even at the level of calling themselves ARTIST), but the skills of PU is very powerful and with power comes responsibility. ONly because now I have the skills of attracting women doesn't give me the right to wreck someone's relationship. Hence I don't even like or have read the Boyfriend Destroyer.

The Nice guy likes relationships and I respects them. He respects the relationship a wife shares with her husband, he respects the ring on the fingure of a girl, he respects people who are dating and he respects guys when they are out with their dates.

Example 1) I was out one evening not too long back and at a bar started speaking with a doctor who intro. me to all his friends who were back from a wedding. They offered me drinks and invited me to join their table. After mid-nite the guys took me to another bar and there I was intro. to the owner and some VIPs. One of the VIP was a Hockey Player, tall huge guy with a very pretty Girlfriend. I and his Girlfriend started talking and we clicked immediately. She was soo engrossed in talking to me that she completely ignored her guy, who was trying hard to Amog me but I just ignored his comments soo did she. When he went to the rest room she appologized to me for his behaviour and in return I told her that he hadn't said anything that would upset me or else I would have LET HIM KNOW. I played it down. I incl. him in our conv. and his views on subjects though very apprantly stupid to her and me I acknowledged it with a smile and cont. to incl. him in the conv. Anyways after a few shots that they bought for me and vice-versa at the end of the night when he was way SHE ASKED ME FOR MY NUMBER and I declined as a respect for the guy. Suprisingly as we were all leaving the Hockey Player asked his girlfriend to take my number so that we could all hang out the next time !!!! We exchanged numbers and 2 weeks later I invited them to join my group of friends on our night out.

The girl is an Investment Banker and I have been in touch with them. They have ended up in my network of friends. - So the Nice guy can respect people and relationships and use his PUA skills to develop a network and a lifestyle, one that is attractive and a world that people, both men and women want to be a part off.

Short Example: I was on the dance floor dancing with a lot of girls who were taking turns. Out of the blue a Cutie Brunett came right up and wrapped her arms around me. I could see that the guy she was with was right behind (he looked like a young pleasant guy, well dressed and looked educated and there was something very pleasing about him) he didn't know what to do. I very politely took her arms from around my neck spun her and then took her hand and placed it on the guy's hand, almost like giving it away. He looked at me, and I jestured 'respect bro'.

Now I dont care if she had just met him, I dont care if he was her boyfriend or nobody. Just the fact that she was with another guy and if I had pulled her away that would have made him feel shitty, made him feel less of a man to me and Only because I have more game than him does not mean I make another guy who is out there trying to have fun and get better with women, make him feel immasculated. I don't give women the power to play two guys against each other.

I dont care about the girl, I have plenty, but to make another guy feel less of a man didn't make me feel too great. - Yes I know that most PUAs in here would disagree with me and there are MPUAs who date only women in relationships but I like to help out fellow guys infield or off it. - But if he would have had a jerk vibe or try to block me then he would have to be bear seeing me making out with his target hahaha

There are numerous examples where I approach mixed sets and get a lot of IOIs from the girls who are with their dates or even married but pulling a girl who is with someone else or in a relationship ISNT MY GOAL FOR LEARNING PU.

Nice post, it reflects a lot of how I feel about things also.
There isn't anything wrong with being a nice guy, but there sure is about being a wussy.

And just because I enjoy this quote, even though I don't entirely believe it:
""It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious. " - Oscar Wilde"

Some replies:

Dazz1020 : You are right Nice Guys DONT FINISH LAST. Its the Weak Guys, The Creepy Guys, The Needy Guys, The guys who want Validation, the guys who try hard to PLEASE Girls, The guys who need approval from women that finish last or never even get to the finish line. And You get it, Wit, Charm, Humor, Confidance and also SEXUAL CONFIDANCE is what turns on women.

Nihro: I would keep explaining as I go on. My examples would help you understand the situations and my approach better.

Mr. Amador: Thats the Nice Guy with an Edge. I'm getting there with my following posts and if you understand some of my examples You'd see glimpses of that and understand my frame.

Jurupa: I'm sorry I wasn't caring a dictionary to try define the right word. But its the concept of being human and not heartless jerks that I'm trying to convey.

Trixsta: I wouldn't disregard the community as a whole. I have learnt a lot about sexual attraction, push & pull, Sexual framing, what triggers emotions etc.. from guys in here. I seek advise from guys like Kasabi when it comes to creating sexual tension and making a girl crave for you. Chief is more towards taking things sexual as quickly as possible which is not bad either, Rafiel Gamble good with his concepts and understanding on minds (woman thinks), The female PUAs in here are also candid in providing their prospective. I have read several posts and seek advise whenever necessary. But in the process do not change the values that I stand for, my core values because I know that being nice to people in general can never ever hurt you, its a quality that not too many people have or are comfortable with.

Dwight Schrute Being nice is just one part of the personality. Unless you learn about physical(kino) escalation, sexual attraction, triggering emotions in a woman on dates that would make them want you, gain sexual confidance you would be stuck in the LJBF (Lets Just Be Friends Zone). These things are skills that you acquire without sacrifising your true self -the nice sensible guy in you.

Hmm, well after reading your posts on this ideal, it seems like the two of us are similar in our approach. Granted, lately I've been going for the mysterious/confusing kind of game with some undertones of nice guy. I still act polite and treat others with respect and all but I'm trying to develop some push/pull methods a bit. Being a gentleman shows respect and some major DHVs, as long as it's mixed with a backbone and some guts. Lately I've been considering dropping the romantic/good guy bit (which is me naturally) and just getting some experience under my belt. However, it's sort of a tough decision. If you could maybe share some of the methods which helped you get to this point, that would be an awesome addition in my opinion. Keep up the good work.

_________________
"All the dragons in our lives are perhaps princesses expecting us to be handsome and brave, all the terrifying things are perhaps nothing but helpless things waiting for us to help them." Rilke

I understand what you are saying. I was more trying to get you to switch terms. Because when people hear certain terms they tend to have a predefined definition and to me and I am sure to many other people when they typically hear "nice guy" they tend to think a guy that is a push over when it comes to girls. Ie a beta male. Girls no doubt love "nice guys" but they like nice guys that have a bit of "bad boy" in them as you explained in your posts. Hence the reason for good guy.

This is a great post, and a much needed one I think.

Most of those people that are recovering AFC's were all once upon a time the "nice guy". Keep that character, never change yourself, just improve yourself.

I've come from being called a "nice guy" to a "good guy", and now I'm just an "amazing guy".

By being the person that I am, and being respectful of woman and ones gentlemanly duty, i have come to meet and enter into relationships with woman that I only ever used to dream of, and what's more important, they love me.

While casual flings are fun, a truly deep relationship is even better.

A "bad guy" gets a lot of girl, but not too many great relationships.
Whilst a "good guy" gets both, if he chooses.

I meant morally, I do not doubt the community in the sense of what it's good for, I just do not agree with the way it is used for some of the time. Boyfriend destroyers and that crap, what gives people the right to mess with that stuff?

However maybe I will PM a few of those peopleas I'm always interested in everyone's opinions.