Basics; Short summary of 2 main points: How to learn 'it'?



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:43 pm 
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Right now I am studying for my linguistics exams and a couple of minutes ago while reading trough one of ‚George Yule chapters‘I came across something that might help you. The concept is very simple. Even though I will be speaking about learning language as a foreign one, please feel free to interpret it as an introduction to how to learn and develop your pick up skills ;)

*
L1 – First Language
L2 – Second Language

Motivation

There are several factors that combine in a profile of a successful L2 learner. Obviously, the motivation to learn is important. Many learners have an instrumental motivation. That is, they want to learn L2 in order to achieve some other goal, such as completing as school graduation requirement or being able to read scientific publications, but not really for any social purposes. In contrast, those learners with an integrative motivation want to learn the L2 for social purposes, in order to take part in the social life of a community using that language and to become an accepted member of the community.
It is also worth noting that those who experience some success in L2 communication are among the most motivated to learn. So, motivation may be as much a result of success as a cause. A language-learner situation that provides support and encourages students to try to use whatever L2 skills they have in order to communicate successfully must consequently be more helpful than one that dwells on errors, corrections and a failure to be perfectly accurate. Indeed, the learner who is willing to guess, risks making mistakes, and tries to communicate in the L2 will tend, given the opportunity, be more successful.


Communicative Competence

Communicative competence can be defined as the general ability to use language accurately, appropriately, and flexibly. The first component is grammatical competence, which involves the accurate use of words and structures. Concentration on grammatical competence only, however, will NOT provide the learner with the ability to interpret or produce L2 expressions appropriately.
The ability to use appropriate language is the second component, called sociolinguistic competence. It enables the learner to know when to say ‘Can I have some water?’ versus ‘Give me some water!’ according to the social context.
Much of what is discussed in terms of pragmatics has to become familiar in the cultural context of the L2 if the learner is to develop sociolinguistic competence.
The third component is called strategic competence. This is the ability to organize a message effectively and to compensate, via strategies, for any difficulties. In L2 use, learners inevitably experience moments when there is a gap between communicative intent and their ability to express that intent. Some learners may just stop talking (bad idea), whereas others will try to express themselves using a communicative strategy (good idea). For example a Dutch L1 speaker wanted to refer to een hoefijzer (if there are any spelling mistakes, please excuse my Dutch) in English, but didn’t know the English word. So, she used a communicative strategy. She created a way of referring to the object by using vocabulary she already knew, saying the things that horses wear under their feet, the iron things, and the listener understood immediately what she meant (horseshoes). This flexibility in L2 use is a key element in communicative success. In essence, strategic competence is the ability to overcome potential communication problems in interaction.

I hope that these paragraphs made you think about particular situations and concepts.

Cheers
Jez

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Fin: Jezebel of PUAF -> More awesome than a T-rex fighting a giant shark.'


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:52 pm 
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Hey Jez,

Nice things you are learning. I think the parallel to the 4 levels of competency (unconscious incompetent -> unconscious competent) can be nicely made here with the 3 communicative competece that you are listing.

All these learning concepts can be applied to many aspects of PUA really from just initiating approaches, sub communication skills all the way to sexual prowless. Learn the vocabulary, learn how to use it efficiently and learn ways to go around the obstacles you might have untill you have the competency to go direcly to what you need.

Good luck on your exam ;P

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:16 pm 
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Hey J, nice interpretation!
I left it open since i decided that it is possible to be read in many different ways, depending on what are one's 'problems'. Linguistics are great on many levels.

The grammar is just the base that we need to be able to comprehend in order to build on it, the grammar itself doesn't work our way up, it is just the bridge to the other side of the road, the real journey begins only then when you are willing to take it to the next level. It's a choice that everyone needs to do, constantly, it is not by any means a one time event.


Above all, one should never stop trying, learning, developing, no matter what level we've reached throughout our experience. There's always more to come and to be seen.

Cheers
Jez
P.s In order to see the picture, you should first realize that there's a picture.

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“A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.”
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Fin: Jezebel of PUAF -> More awesome than a T-rex fighting a giant shark.'


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:46 pm 
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Quote:
P.s In order to see the picture, you should first realize that there's a picture.
That reminds me of a french quote (liberal translation from me) :

"When the wiseman points at the moon the idiot looks at the finger"

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Wet your beak in the stream
Game we're playing is life
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:58 pm 
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Quote:
"When the wiseman points at the moon the idiot looks at the finger"
Sad but also very true!

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“A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.”
Quote:
Fin: Jezebel of PUAF -> More awesome than a T-rex fighting a giant shark.'


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:07 pm 
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I only clicked on this post because it said "short summery" and I didn't beleive Jezebel has every written a short post on the forum - she still hasn't :lol:

However, I will let her off because its a post with a good message especially if you change it to explaining emotions.

There are no direct translations for emotions into English that perfectly describe how you are feeling, so this is when being able to describe how you feel in detail is a huge bonus. Emotions are contagious, when have you been happy and a room full of grumpy people made you grumpy too (or visa versa)?
This apply's for every emotion, if you are happy and show it through the way you communicate and describe other things you will find people will hardly ever manage to be angry at you!

Madals


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:53 pm 
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I like how things are going so far, by now we have two different readings, both very true:
Quote:
the 4 levels of competency
and
Quote:
[...] especially if you change it to explaining emotions.
P.s Madals, i promise someday to write a short post dedicated to you! =)

Cheers
Jez

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“A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.”
Quote:
Fin: Jezebel of PUAF -> More awesome than a T-rex fighting a giant shark.'


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:43 am 
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Being a FPUA how do you feel when someone uses canned materials on you. If he is attractive would you let him game you. Sorry If my question is not related to the topic.

Also you are a FPUA but are you pretty ? I am just trying to picture whether you are the nerd types or the intelliegent hot types.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:27 am 
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Haash, your questions are really not related to the topic of this thread but however …
I’ve been in the situation when a guy is using canned material on me and my reaction was to start laughing and then tell him that if he wants to have a chance to pick me up he has to do better. The whole thing ended up by me giving him ideas and pretty much trying to school him.
Attractiveness is a very relative concept in my opinion. One guy can seem very cute till the moment he opens his mouth and he loses all the cuteness. For me, it depends on whether the guy is intelligent or not. Looks are superficial and they can be easily destroyed by the person’s brain activity (if you know what I mean).

I consider myself attractive… sure there are days that ‘I don’t like my hair’, but in general I am very happy with what I have. To be honest, sometimes I would like to be more ‘invisible’ on looks level, because you know… you get tired to be hit on just because of your looks… there are many guys out there who won’t take the time to actually see the real you, and feeling as a well cooked piece of meat, most of the time isn’t pleasant.

Cheers
Jez

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“A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.”
Quote:
Fin: Jezebel of PUAF -> More awesome than a T-rex fighting a giant shark.'


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:10 pm 
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Quote:
I’ve been in the situation when a guy is using canned material on me and my reaction was to start laughing and then tell him that if he wants to have a chance to pick me up he has to do better. The whole thing ended up by me giving him ideas and pretty much trying to school him.
Been there, done that.

What kind of material was this guy useing ?

[ Bravo ]

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:49 pm 
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Johnny, the most obvious. He opened well but everything came to an end when he tried to run the cube =)lmao. We talked and talked, he couldn't believe that a girl would be into pick up... good thing was that he was willing to try some new things, we number closed 2 girls that evening... a team, wooohoo =) All in all, it was fun :)

Cheers
Jez

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“A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.”
Quote:
Fin: Jezebel of PUAF -> More awesome than a T-rex fighting a giant shark.'


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:49 pm 
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Oh, the cube.... classic.
So what new techniques did you teach him ^^?
Routines or something that concerned him ( individual factors ) ?

[ Bravo ]

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When you lose, don't lose the lesson. ~Author Unknown
Fear has a large shadow, but he himself is small. ~Ruth Gendler


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:11 pm 
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As you know, I am not a big fan of routines. I just tried to explain to him that he doesn’t need lines in order to get a girl’s attention. The discussion was mainly on him being more natural and smile more, realizing that the girl is just a girl - another human being. Of course he asked me if he doesn’t use the routines what is he supposed to talk about… ‘Whatever interests you, that’s the easiest way to be naturally passionate talker and get passionate listeners’, of course not forgetting to include her in the conversation, was mentioned too. We generally talked about inner game and transitioning.

Cheers
Jez

_________________
“A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.”
Quote:
Fin: Jezebel of PUAF -> More awesome than a T-rex fighting a giant shark.'


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:41 pm 
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As you know, I am not a big fan of routines. I just tried to explain to him that he doesn’t need lines in order to get a girl’s attention. The discussion was mainly on him being more natural and smile more, realizing that the girl is just a girl - another human being. Of course he asked me if he doesn’t use the routines what is he supposed to talk about… ‘Whatever interests you, that’s the easiest way to be naturally passionate talker and get passionate listeners’, of course not forgetting to include her in the conversation, was mentioned too. We generally talked about inner game and transitioning.

Cheers
Jez
So in the end you werent interested at his routines as a girl but instead how he could leverage his persona more into the conversation/ showing his inner core in a much more visible light?
( No further questions your honor )

[ Bravo ]

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When you lose, don't lose the lesson. ~Author Unknown
Fear has a large shadow, but he himself is small. ~Ruth Gendler


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:59 pm 
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Hehe, Johnny!
I wasn't interested not so much because of his routines that he tried to run on me but because he was way too young (17) for me, other than that he was in fact a very smart and sweet boy.
Are we done with the interrogation? ;)

Cheers

_________________
“A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.”
Quote:
Fin: Jezebel of PUAF -> More awesome than a T-rex fighting a giant shark.'


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