The Seduction Community did something very important and valuable.

It gave many men hope that things could be better, that they could have the kind of money, career, wealth and women they wanted.

This is a very powerful thing. And I’m sure many of us are grateful for that.

However, we have made a mistake. A big one.

We forgot about what this is all about.

Instead of becoming the men we truly want to be, we decided to become only… the men women want.

We have made it look as if chasing after pvssy is glorious enough to be considered a worthy goal.

And instead of following our, hearts we make decisions on the grounds of whether or not women will approve of our actions.

And in the process we’ve lowered out standards.

For example, we’ve been told we don’t need to be rich to get women. So what did we do?

We stopped working, studying and building our lives for the sake of sleeping with beautiful women.

Instead of building character and integrity we walk around reciting routines (by the way it doesn’t matter if you make up your own, a routine is a routine).

In the end, we are perpetuating the very belief that we’re trying to fight; that men are not OK the way they are, they must be something else.

Don’t get me wrong, in the society we live in it is important to learn how to deal with the opposite sex.

But it has to be done on the grounds of respect and honesty to ourselves FIRST.

If everything you do is just because you want another “DHV”, all you are doing is seeking approval. Think about it.

Guys, let’s wake up. Instead of trying to only get to know women, let’s get to know ourselves first. For our own sake and the sake of our sons.
Peace,
Jean Paul

Something I've realised about myself through chatting with some amazingly talented people over the past few days is that I have a problem in MYSELF with the seeking of approval.

Everything I do is trying to seek approval from others, always doing it to look good in front of others.

Now, this is not the extent that you see on US Teen TV with the guys running around saying 'Does this look good ?' 'Will she like this ?', etc ... it's more underlying than that, so far down that whilst I think I'm doing what I'm doing to make a better me, I was actually doing it to gain social approval. What's the difference ? I think my goals and my behaviour are different to what they would be was I doing this stuff solely for myself.

I think you've touched upon something briliant in the OP, but I'd like to hear more from you regarding how you think people can change. Some of the advice I've been given so far is A+, top grade stuff, and I'm really working on myself.

It's amazing how many people on this forum are actually here for their own validation that they have in fact made it as a man, a member of society, with women, etc. You name it most people aren't truly hear for themselves most on this forum are here for validation.

I'll be honest I was here for validation too when I first started. That is why I had to take such a long break from the community to distance myself away from seekign that validation any further.

Let's be honest when you post a good field report and people tell you that you are the man and you did a good job it feels good.

I'm glad you can admit it because most people can't.

Great post Jean Paul

_________________
Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

You said that if you were doing things for yourself your goals would be different. I will let you in on a little secret. Until you start doing what you truly believe in, you will never achieve your full potential.

You have to face the fact that as a man you will be rejected and that the more you become you true self the more fierce your enemies are likely to become.

When it comes to women, no matter what our dear "gurus" say, routines will not get you quality women.

How much can you respect your relationship if you know it exist purely by calculated action?

You also say you are working on yourself. If I were you I would stop right there.

You are not being true to yourself in the first place (from what you said). So what are you working on? On becoming the man the community says you should be?

It takes balls to follow your heart. That's why you've been given two. Use them.

You want to be a leader of men or a follower?

Learn to face life. That's what will make you more attractive.

You will like and respect yourself more if you start listening to own heart and soul.

All the best.

Great post but you're assuming that everyone is like this, an assumption which compromises your own post. Not everyone is like this.

Hvaing said that...
If you're young and free isn't this a worthy goal, as long as you don't neglect your life for it?

I'm actually going to have to argue with the OP, here.

We _have_ forgotten what this is all about, but this post is a great example of our mission having skewed from its target. I didn't come into this to become the man I want to be. I came into this to learn how to pick up girls.

Maybe you want to become "the man you want to be," but I was already the man I wanted to be. I'm still that man. Learning this skill, practicing this art, did not make me a different man. Learning and practicing made me more proficient at picking up girls.

This is not a self-improvement racket. At least, it didn't start out as one. There are successful, powerful, friendly, honest, respected and respectful men out there who do not know how to seduce women. There are some total scumbag, deadbeat fucks who do know how to seduce women, and it has nothing to do with having a strong character or self-respect. Those things help, certainly, but they're not prerequisites.

I've been seeing a lot of posts like this, lately. It reads like something I'd find in a book about "Finding yourself." Gents, if you want to "find yourself," feel free to spend a few weeks in the woods meditating or take yoga classes or whatever. If you want to learn how to seduce women, it'll help to stop treating it like some spirit journey to the deepest reaches of your soul.

It's a skill and it's an art, like sales and dramatic acting.

_________________
Repent now and save 50% on your next divine judgment.
-Monkey's Little Brother, Spud

guys i think most of the people got it wrong...the whole pua thing...the point is not to try to run after girls seeking for their approval...of course this you will do it at the beggining ...but the more experience you become the more natural you become...you need to integrate these things to yourself in the same way you have integrated your shyness, anxiety e.t.c before you knew about pua...
dont take it so bad...and besides...find me a better way of meeting women...
women is probably the most important thing that men thinking very single second!
i believe that is worth it to change...anyway women want to be fooled and lie to them...i know its sad but thats women...just get them and accept whatever might happen...

Fin says (he is sitting next to me) : It's a cliche but... 2008 called they want their thread back. No offence its a good point but a lot of this has been covered before and lot of this is hyperbole, most of this OP is not really entirely accurate, as it's a pendulum swing of extremity as a rebellious over-reaction to the previous extremes of the PU generaion in 2005 etc.

_________________
“A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.”

Hopefully this will make my post clearer.

First of all, a vast majority of PUAs are not getting great results with women. It's a fact we must face.

Believe it or not, by becoming a man of true integrity you rise above the need for PUA tactics.

By being true to yourself, which includes being honest in your pursuit of women, you achieve a level of attractiveness no routine will ever give you.

If you want to be the kind of man who runs around with tactics and routines that's your choice.

However, you are limiting yourself to the kind of woman who will want to actually be with you.

I know this upsets many people but a real man doesn't need all this.

As far as chasing pvssy being a worthy goal is concerned... It's not.

I'm not saying you shouldn't go after women and to sleep with them. I do it too.

But there is a time for it. You energy must be put into something that contributes to your life and into the society.

I believe there are two main reasons that as a man you find yourself looking for advice on a forum such as this one.

Neediness and lack of integrity. Which result in things like shyness, anxiety and little confidence with women.

Monkey, it has everything to do with strong character and self-respect. By strong character I don't mean good or positive character.

Without a strong grounding in yourself you will need tactics to attract women.

So now you think scumbags have something you don't? Could it be... balls?

When you are free to express yourself, you become charismatic and women are naturally attracted to you.

The "powerful honest men" you talk about, do they behave the same with women?

Look, if all this pretentious stuff works for you, that's great.

But my experience is, there are many guys who have spent, months, weeks even years learning and practicing all this without much improvement.

In the mean time real men are getting laid, married or whatever else they want to do with women.

To me, being a PUA (what it has become) is for boys.

This man speaks truth.

_________________
Attend The 21 Convention in Europe and North America at http://www.The21Convention.com/Attend/

There are so many possible ways to respond to this. Honestly, you've thrown me for a loop by questioning my testicular fortitude. Normally, I would respond to your points with an explanation that, while AFCs and Real Men get laid all the time, pick-up provides men with a framework that explains the why, and allows men to get laid with more regularity. That this is an art, and not everyone can be a da Vinci; that some people will have a natural aptitude that others will lack. That this aptitude will have a distinct effect on progress.

But when I look at your total post count, and take into consideration ad hominem attacks on my genitals, you have all the makings of a troll.

After all, as a Real Man, you have no reason to be posting on this forum, do you? You would be neither needy nor lacking in integrity, right?

I'm done with you. ^_^

_________________
Repent now and save 50% on your next divine judgment.
-Monkey's Little Brother, Spud

You know what Monkey, you seem like a really nice guy.

I like to put money where my mouth is.

If you want, send me a PM. I will show you how I do this.

I promise you, if you listen you and apply, will never look at another pick up technique in your life!

To me, this simply sounds like someone who read "the game" and decided to generalize.
What he is saying is true in some cases but certainly not all.

This past year I have read a lot of posts from various members who decide to try to draw all the forum members across the same line.

Sorry man, most people are not the same, even though we came to the same forum we are all individuals we different personalities and goals!

_________________
.............
Slywalker

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