Everything needed to have begun with a strong sexual frame. . . and if she told you "LJBF" due to cold feet and the need to feel more "secure" before sex, YOU ARE WAY IN. Keep the sexual level up, continue to game other girls (But you need to do this well), Continue to treat this girl like the skittish girl she is, and you have a great shot at fucking her and turning her into your girlfriend. If all the above holds true, you take a big swing at it soon and she'll go for it.

If you didn't begin with a sexual frame and she "LJBF" in response to a "verbal proposal", then you've just got yourself a decent pivot . . . who still can be yours later on but you'll need to amp up your game overall.

Good luck.

But can they be used as pivots---from experience anytime ive been LJBFed it equates as im not interested period but im just saying this line to be polite.

I remember one case where i accepted LJBF called her on phone a bout a week later---she answered stony silence..then ''why are you calling me''...i told her she did suggest we remain friends---''oh er ok sure''...she had no intention whatsoever of remaining friends.

ok i get the point about not being an AFC whining bitch and not stop talking to her --but cant she see right through that act as well --[wont she know that you are sore but pretending not to care]-as she would that you are sore at her for rejecting you and not talking to her.

What really happens if you stay talking to her and hanging around her----she tells her hot friends that you are a creep that cant take no for an answer and are just hanging around hoping she will change her mind=DLV also a DLV is her telling her friends that she has already rejected you--will her hot friends want someone she has already rejected

Dude . . . that sucks. . . . I feel for you . . . but . . .

If this is a common occurrence for you, I'd look deeper into your game overall . . .

For just about every time I've been LJBFed (Plenty of times . . . going back decades here) it's nearly always been, "I want to fuck you but a piece of the puzzle has not been completed yet." .... And it took me a while to figure this out.

My last "closure" for this issue occurred a 5/6 years ago. Long before that, when I was a freshman in college, I had the hots of this particular senior. She seemed to me like the total package. Hot, mature, fun, etc . . . We went out, made out, then in the car she pushed me off and gave me the LJBF.(Actually, her words were, "let's take it slow". I was heartbroken. Ha ha ha. . . well, I was just a kid like most of you . . .)

So I went with the whole, "I am a little kid who is heart broken" route. --- This did NOTHING for me. (And I learned later on that this did NOTHING for her.)

She contacted me years later (which happened to be about 5/6 years ago). She needed closure just as I needed closure. She traveled through a few states to "catch up" with me and do the tourist act where I lived. We spent a day . . . had lunch, went for cocktails, dinner . . .more cocktails. This entire time, we KNEW we were going to fuck. It was building, building, building . .. and even when we got to the door of the apartment(I let her stay in one of mine) she told me, "OK, you can come up. But NO sex. . . and no kissing . . . I really mean it." - She still needed to play the "innocent role" ... I mean . . . even NOW!?!?! This is when I fully realized that this is just second nature to some girls . . .it's just in their blood. They MUST do this to protect their souls.

We go up to the apartment, chat a bit . . .and then . .. well, what do you think happens when two people who finally unleash their sexual frustrations that were built up over many, many years?

Had I played it right, we would have fucked on that very first night, many many years ago . . . Get the point?

yeah,but remember I live in Ireland where the women are weird--up until about 5 years ago the catholic church[while molesting every kid in the country they could] and their mothers had every girl convinced that she was a slut if she was even on the same side of the street as a guy

This is just my opinion . . . but the frame that I am suggesting is ESPECIALLY suited for the type of environment that you mention. This is the type of environment where girls will AUTOMATICALLY tell you, "No kissing! No Sex! Let's just be friends! Let's not do this, let's not do that!"(Otherwise, they'd just be whores right?)

So instead of burning the bridge, you just go, "OK . . . cool . . . "and just continue holding their hands and escalating.

They just go, "Huh?"

Still making excuses...still playing the fiddle...

But then you wonder when you're out and she's all over that jerk?

'But I thought she was a sweet catholic girl?'

Kasabi, that advice is gold-dust. Unfortunately, a lot of kids are in the early stages of developing game... And will still be 'oh so hurt by the let's just be friends speech', and will still be unable to put that shit into practise.

But when you guys do...when you reach that epiphany... It's FUCKING mind blowing.

_________________
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My Journal
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I need to checc out Kasabi's method. You're getting good reviews.

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Kasabi, I've been trying to do as you suggested with my situation. The two of us went to a bar and I was trying to escalate through simple kino or whatnot, but midway through she pushed me away and said that she wasn't in the right state of mind or something like that. Any suggestions? I'm pretty sure I'm just done with this girl, way too fickle for me. One second she's cuddling up to me and I'm putting my arm around her and the next she pushes me away and says she's confused. Whatever, plenty of women at new years

I'm gonna answer this on behalf of Kasabi lol...

You say you started to escalate with her. This is GOOD. She was letting you touch her so she didn't just brush you off immediately. Great. She's STILL game.

But half way in between she suddenly has a change of heart and comes up with some chick BS excuse... Oh I'm soooo confused.

Now the trick here is to REMAIN absolutely indifferent. You're ROCK SOLID. How you react, or rather how you DON'T is critical. You should make out like her reaction doesn't matter to you. You're her friend and you're going to be there for her whatever.

You need to pay attention to this though. She wants you to step back. So you do. You UNDERSTAND women, but you also understand that this is just her little head of emotions (anti-slut) defence starting to kick in.

Grab her hand and say, 'Hey that's cool, you know I'll always be here for you.' Come on let's sit down get drink.

Then you sit down and you act like NOTHING FUCKING HAPPENED. You sit slightly away from her and you appear slightly dis-interested. But you talk about something non-sexual. You still engage her. Act NORMAL.

Then you start to RAMP it up again with kino. And you carry on building tension.

Pushing through, where others have given up. You're rock FUCKING solid.

She'll notice this and be attracted by this. All you are doing is looking for that window of opportunity when she slips back into attraction with you and then you fire on all cylinders.

If she stops you again...?

Lather rinse and repeat.

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Thanks dude that made a lot of sense. I think part of it is she knows I'm the kind of guy who wants a relationship and she's scared of starting something that's more than a fling. I think I'm going to start gaming women slightly older than me, maybe around 24-25. It seems like too many females in my age group are petrified of starting something real even when it's staring them straight in the face. All good though, giving up is never an option right? One other question though, I showed her my soft side too soon I think, what's the best to recover from that? Lol that's sort of just naturally who I am.

Kasabi,
because I respect as good advice what you say on other matters I am willing to give your advice here a try when the opportunity comes up when i get LBJFed next 10 times--I must say though im extremely doubtful and wont hold my breath of it working here--however im open minded enough to be willing to give it a try

LOL tweeby . . .

That's pretty fucking good . . .

And Herne,

Here's the truth of the matter:

The girl ACTUALLY RELEASES SEXUAL TENSION by saying, "Oh . . . I'm not in the mood," and then WATCHING the guy go, "What? Why? Why? are you doing this to me! Come on! I love you! I want to have sex with you! Please! Please! I really, really, really want you!" (Do you see what this does for the girl?) She is fishing for this.

You go this route and you wont' get laid because you just gave her an orgasm with this bullshit. She just wants more . . . so she'll just laugh and giggle through her orgasms and continue to lead the guy on. (This is what the AFC's like to call a "tease", when in fact, almost all girls are programmed to do this)

BUT, if you burn the bridge, obviously you won't be getting laid.

So what do you do? Read tweeby's last post several times. And you do it with a gleaming smile that comes from pure pride. You're sticking around and you sure ain't letting her get her jollies with a few word games. Meanwhile, you're making her even more horny.

I can picture your face as you wrote this:
What do you think? Will it work this way or not?

Kasabi---your an evil Bastard And i mean that as a compliment---NOW I see where your comming from--i had taken your wisdom up completely wrong

WOW this is a great thread. Tweeby's post is pure gold. I'm in a situation and I'm pretty sure what i just read will help out a ton. Thank you Tweeby and Kasabi

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Itcha Boi Nemo!

Update: HB9 friend and I went out and had a blast, the kino got intense at one stage, no f-close but a kick ass time none the less. Applying the previously posted advice above definately paid off. One thing though; I was the one who decided to leave and cruise home. The next day I rang and asked her if she wanted me to stay and got a VERY vague response. Does me asking this sound AFCish?

p.s: This is so true, HB9 played this a little coupled with the anti slut comments. I brushed it off best I could.