Hello, Good to be on a forum where people are committed to improving their lives,

I've read quite a lot of pick up literature and listened to a lot of audio books. I've field tested a little bit, but I decided to hang back and get myself together properlly before I went into the field proper. During this time I've reflected on the pick up stuff I've been exposed to and it's raised some observations, doubts and questions that I hope you will be able to give me some fresh insight and opinion on.

My fist observation is that most of the master PUAs I've seen are pretty attractive guys. I've noticed from my own life experience that really hot women (tens) don't necessarilly go for a guy with a pretty face, but they almost always go for a guy with an ideal strong body (or a guy with a pretty face). David DeAngello has a reasonably decent looking face, but a great body. Sinn has a good face and a great body. Gambler and Adam Lyons both have good looking faces! Do you think that a guy without a great body or nice face can just pick up their techniques and have success with incredibly attractive women?

You might contend that Mystery and Carlos Xuma and Neil Strauss don't have these qualities. But I've read that Neil Strauss was actually pretty rich before he started on the Game - he had a house with a jacuzi for Chrissakes! And do we know for certain that Mystery and Carlos were nailing HB10s in their early careers? How do you know they weren't just getting with average birds? How do you know they didn't just realise 'Hey, there's money to be made by marketing pua techniques, and convincing average/below average guys they can have the success with women that they desire'? For all I know they could be con men.

If you are a physically attractive guy, no doubt that not being a pussy around women will improve your dating life dramatically, I'm embarrassed that you needed someone to point that out for you.

But if you are a less than ideal physical specimen - a bit fat, thin, short or ugly, and you've used PUA techniques to get 10s into your bed, let me know, because I'd would LOVE to believe this stuff can work

This post kinda disgusted me so I feel impelled to speak. It does work, these guys are living proof of it. Ever go out and see this gorgeous girl with an average guy? Thats proof that this works. And laying HB10s are the goal, but few people just pick-up a book and go out and f-close a hb 10 on their first night out.

EXPERIENCE is key. Mystery has insane experience, style came in under the radar and had a great lifestyle attatched to him, gambler is making himself known in the clubs, adam lyons married his hb 10 wife. These men are proof that game works. I think people starting out really don't understand that good looks have nothing to do with pickup.

Looks are a tool to help you along, but being Well Groomed and Fit is what women are looking for. Get off your computer and do some jumping jacks if you complain about how your weight is affecting your game. Pick up is about aquiring the skills to talk to and escalate women into a long term/one night stand relationship.

To conclude, go out and try this for yourself. I knew this stuff worked the moment my friend started talking to me about it. I laughed at some of his outrageous ideas but I knew that this stuff was legit because I could relate it to my own experiences with women before learning this stuff. But by all means don't let other people formulate opinions for you, please go out and find the answer yourself.

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Look at Mehow man. That guy is practically albino, balding, doesn't have an amazing body, used to be a programmer nerd, and he pulls 10s left and right.

Don't let yourself have limiting beliefs about your attractiveness. Those kind of beliefs killed me for a long time in terms of my game, but as I got more success with women I realised that being confident and fun is what they care about way more. Of course, PU material gave me the impetus to go out, get a new haircut, buy some new clothes, and all that stuff, which is somewhat important and can help, but don't for a second think that the shape of your face or your height or weight is gonna PREVENT you from getting a girl. As soon as you start thinking like that, you won't have the core confidence necessary to game successfully.

But this is all a side note to my main point. You'll never realise how true "looks don't matter" actually is until you GET OUT IN THE FIELD AND PRACTICE. You can read all the ebooks in the world and know every model back to front, but until you actually get in-set and field-test what works for you, and become congruent with your material and style, you won't get the results you're looking for.

Sorry for the novel but I felt it important to get this all across to you.

I just wanted to poke my head in here. I'm not the most experienced pua by far, in fact I've hardly put any practice in, but I can tell you that if you structure your learning and start from the beginning and work on the beginning first until you have it down, and continue forward, you will notice the little things that really begin to add up to dramatic increases in your success with female interaction and companionship.

As for your questions, you say you've read a lot of PUA literature, and I am not questioning that, but if you have, you should know that women don't think on the same level as men do. Any PUA who's worth his weight will tell you that to be successful you have to understand and put an iron grasp on the fact that women are not attracted to men in the same way men are attracted to women. That isn't to say that women won't jump after the hot guy, but they are effected more deeply on an emotional level, and WILL go for the guy who creates stronger emotional attraction a huge percentage of the time. Remember, your questions are derived from the male mentality (it looks good, I'd hit it), but with PUA, you should strive to see things from a womans perspective and communicate with her on that level.

These techniques aren't cheats, they aren't manipulation (well, I suppose speed seduction techniques might be but regardless), they're teaching you to connect with a girl on HER level and show her that you are what she wants. You may think you're lying to her by presenting a false facade but again, any PUA worth his weight will tell you that as you continue to practice PUA you'll become the man you're perpetuating.

I suggest you read up outside of just PUA material, a great book to read in regards to the difference in mentality between men and women is called Men are From Mars, Women Are From Venus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Are_fr ... from_Venus

If you're lucky enough, as I am, to be really close friends with what I like to call a "Super" natural, then you can watch PUA techniques at their finest first hand, and ask questions. My closest friend has every girl he talks to wrapped around his pinky finger without even trying, and he shares his secrets with me without all the words we in the PUA community use to classify actions and such. Sure, he has a very athletic body and attractive face and smile, but by adopting his mentality and asking him for advice on my sticking points, I've had GREAT success with women who are vastly outside of my league, and I am by all means no more than a 4 on the looks scale (trust me, I'm 6'6" but I'm also pretty chubby and I have a sort of mean face, with a lazy eye, and believe me when I say lazy eyes are a huge turn-off to women), and I regularly date and fuck girls who are 8 - 9 HBs because of the advice he gives me. PUA teaches you to be a natural, eventually, it won't be canned routines, it will be routine, no pun intended.

You have to understand something about the PUA culture. Like I've said before, it isn't cheating! Naturals have taken their ability to attract and nail the hottest ladies around, given it a name, and tried to put it into terms that us none-naturals can understand and relate to, and eventually practice. That is what PUA is. It isn't just a place to learn how to nail women, as you mentioned, it's a way to improve your life over-all. It CAN go bad, and has (as shown in Style's book The Game), but it will vastly improve the quality of your life.

Good luck, and I hope I've helped concrete your faith in the community.

No, only if you believe they will work and have zero doubt. It is all what your inner game is leaking out to tell them. Females are good at reading subcommunication.

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I am your god. By the way, life has no meaning; any meaning you add to it is subjective.

Thanks for the posts guys, I'm feeling better already

@Philosopher - you didn't address the key point of my post which was that the very PUAs you mention are pretty reasonable physical specimens.

@Jolly Green - thanks, your experience is the kind of inspiration I need

I have had very little social experience in my life. I come from a rural area, where every girl on an 8-10 level (and there aren't many of them) is snapped up by some guy with an ideal physique. I think I'm gonna have to up sticks and move to fresh pastures where there are more single girls, ha.

It's already crossed my mind that if I think to myself and believe that tens won't think I'm good enough for them, it'll come across, and it'll turn them off. But if I'm right in thinking 'they'll always wait for the ideal physical specimen to approach them' then it doesn't matter. But thinking about what you've said I realise that they might be thinking 'this guy makes me feel really good/attracted and that bigger/better looking guy might not make me feel the same way - I'll stick with the guy who knows how to make me feel good'. Maybe.

If physical attractiveness isn't critical, that raises loads of other questions, but I would like to keep this post on the topic of how important is physical attractiveness to PU and do mystery, carlos and mehow really pull 10s?

Cheers!

I'm glad what I said could help you in your decision, and as for your last question, HB 10's aren't quite as elusive as people would lead you to believe, sure, they're definitely a handful in a thousand so to speak, but you have to think about the NUMBER of girls out there. In a town of 20,000 where half of the populace is female and 5% of that are HB 10s, that leaves you with 500 HB10's. That's a good number, remember, everything people say that relates to those kind of subjects should be thought of relative to the other values in the equation, like I did above.

OH YEAH! Also don't forget that the hotness scale is NOT universal and is insanely subjective to it's beholder. I don't know about you, but Mystery's ex Katya is definitely an HB 10 in my book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-ts8wB_I8w

That girl is just... Wow.

Other girls I classify as HB 10's are...
Lisa Edelstein
Kate Beckensale
Megan Fox (shocking I know)
Olivia Wilde (yeah yeah two House girls all at once lol)

The list goes on. I kinda don't like the HB scale at all but it does help occasionally to communicate success or lack there of with a set of really hot girls or w/e. To communicate how far out of your league a girl you nailed was, etc.

Here's some examples of hot girls with average/ugly guys.

http://sumwebs.com/storage/glamgalz/img ... der_08.jpg <-- He might be rich or w/e.

http://poponthepop.com/images/gallery/a ... 60x691.jpg <-- Anna Faris and Chris Pratt, wtf happened here? PU perfection, cuz I doubt he's just "a nice guy". :p

Looking for a pic of those two led me to this article.

http://www.spike.com/blog/top-ten-hot-chicks/86789

Everybodies rich here so, you can't just say "he's got money". Of particular interest in this one is #1, Christina Aguilera and Jordan SPAM. Now, this guy isn't downright ugly, but he's WAY fucking under-league for Christina, and he's slightly chubby, as seen in the link below.

http://celebrityhookups.files.wordpress ... uilera.jpg

DEEP! Those guys have done seriously well for themselves, especially Christina's husband!

Hi Joc2009,

I'll be honest.. I SERIOUSLY respect your original scepticism. When I got into all of this, aged 17, I was equally cynical.

Things that aren't science based, like our artform, can be difficult to understand until you experience them working yourself. Just think about new "fad" diets and credit schemes. You don't trust in it until you try it yourself and have success.

Especially when you read techniques which seem MUCH easier than you would expect. I always assumed that it would be difficult and complicated so it came as a shock to the system when I realised that it's actually not. It takes time to learn and perfect but it isn't mega-difficult.

So you've got the proof that looks aren't that important. I'm a very average looking guy but I've had a lot of success myself. Just go out and try it... at the end of the day you don't have anything to lose.

Just blast out onto the scene with confidence, panache and style and knock 'em dead.

Best of luck.. you're in one of the greatest artforms in the world!

V.

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Vince Wagner

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