So I found this girl about 2 weeks ago, for the sake of simplicity we'll call her Liss.

Liss is an HB8 and she cuts my hair. She's 6 months younger and two years ago we graduated High School together. I didn't know her too well in high school (she had a boyfriend) but have recently started to get to know her through shared friends. I asked her out at the end of one of our style sessions and she accepted. So we've gone out 4 times and I'm starting to get to know her pretty well. I've found out that she may have the best personality (usually HBs don't have a personality, but Liss IS her personality!) I've ever seen! Why? She is very fun to talk to and rarely gets boring and unlike most girls she can actually keep the conversation rolling on her own (you know what I mean). She is independent artist, owns her own car and always shows up to work on time (very important to me).

That all makes for a good personality, but here comes the part that I never expected: While talking to her the other night she mentioned she's VERY into video games! She plays many first person shooters (halo, cod4 and broadlands) and even plays online. That really threw me off and I was kind of taken back during the conversation in disbelief. But anyway, here come my questions:

She sends me a LOT of text messages throughout the day. I prefer not to text because I've had relationships that have been "texted to death" because it eliminates challenge. (You reveal everything about you with no emotion, you become boring, she feels she's figured you out, goodbye.) So here are the rules I've been sticking to for texting: NEVER double text for a response, always sort-of answer questions, always be cocky and funny, always call to set things up. So my question is, since I hate SMS, should I just flat out ignore text messages? Maybe call her at the end of the day and say I was busy?

We've gone on four dates (I've taken her to dinner, painted a picture with her, gone to the movies and we've visited her family), but I am worried about her getting bored without a challenge. In the past that has been my BIGGEST problem with women. (I'm too available, they get bored, disinterest, goodbye.) So I was arranging a date with her last night and told her to be ready around 8 pm. My boss called and told me we had an emergency at work so I cancelled and worked until 2 am. She sends me polite messages all night apologizing for the way the night turned out and that we should get together tomorrow (today). I only responded once with I am super busy and I'll talk to you soon. Last night I got to thinking that I still had the upper hand and she obviously wasn't disinterested, sending quite a lot of IOI my way via messages. But I wanted to increase her interest so I ignored her request to hang out today and flat out left her in the freezer all day. My question is is leaving her in the freezer a good idea? How often should I freeze her out? I don't want her to get freezerburn. (or do i?)

This is my first relation after finding the pua forum and I've learned A TON here just for being registered here a little while. I try and use natural game the most as that seems to work best with my high energy attitude. Overall she seems very interested and very cool. And I want to keep her interested without getting boring.

Hi,

Reading your post it is obvious that you care about this girl and probably want a serious, long-term relationship. If that is the case, I wouldnt recommend gaming her at all. I mean PUA techniques are great to pick-up women and to build attraction, but in a long term relationship you just want to be yourself. If you pretend to be someone else she will find out anyway.

If you dont want to text a lot then thats fine. But rather than toying with her and freezing her randomly I would tell her that you just do not like texting that much and that you prefer to talk about things personally. Come clean and just be yourself - thats the best you can do in a serious relationship.

Complete nonsense. PUA techniques are not only for picking up women. At the first place PUA is about becoming a better person, a more attractive one. It is not about the techniques, it is about what the techniques communicate to women. A woman wants a man that is nonneedy, respects himself, doesn't put the woman above him because she is pretty, has a lot of social skills, knows how to interact with women, that is loved by women, ... If you understand nothing about PUA then you might think that being a PUA is just learning some sneaky lines to get her into bed. Someone that understands PUA knows that that is not the case. Being a PUA is becoming another person which is more interesting for women than the person you were before.

Learn to respect other people's opinions, it sure doesn't look like PUA made YOU a better person.

99% of the people here have not become a different person because of PUA. It takes A LOT for a person to change, if it is at all possible. And PUA techniques are not that revolutionary imho. That's why I recommend anyone looking for a serious relationship to just be himself. Yes, if you have changed thanks to PUA, then act that way. But dont freeze out your potential girlfriend because some rAFC with 30-some posts on a forum tells you to do it. Freeze her out only if it feels right for YOU.

No need to freeze her out. You already cancelled on her and she took it very well, indicating that she is still very interested in you. Just set up that day 2 and make sure to kino, build comfort, and you'll be fine.

Thanks NA. I was feeling like all the PUA 'tricks' seem to have the potential to hurt in the long run, but most PUAs aren't in it for the long run. I'm still confused though because of what DP said as I see how they can help mold you into a better, stronger, less needy person, but he didn't really offer any help in my case.

I've wanted to keep away from freezing, but it just made sense at 1 am the other night. I am dating 2 other girls and don't want to get one-itis. (Even though I'd call it out right now and say that she might be worth it. But then again, I'm 20 and permanent anything just does not exist.)
Okay, thanks blondguy. No freezing. I felt really uncomfortable doing it. I was looking to show that I'm not needy, not clingy and independent by freezing her out, but like I said, uncomfortable.

Thanks for the help so far. Remember, I'm not trying to lock her down, just trying to see what it takes to keep a girl interested and keep it challenging.

What was wrong with my remark ? Something that is completely not true is complete nonsense.
Not respecting a person is a worse crime than (supposedly) not respecting an opinion.
Complete nonsense. People change constantly. You are not going to go from an AFC to a PUA in 1 day, but every day that passes you change a little bit more into the direction of a PUA.
Are you even a real person or a internet bot ? If being yourself is the right way to be, then you can take that advice. But if you are too needy and to naive, being yourself is the worst advice ever. People on this forum are here for a reason. The reason usually is that being themselves hasn't really helped them when it came to dating so they are looking here for help. So being themselves is the worst advice you can give.
So he has to listen to an rAFC that tells him to do what feels right for HIM ?

I am not going to say he should freeze her out. But freezing a girl out can really make her go crazy. I once froze my girlfriend out because she was so needy that I was tired of her. I needed some time alone without constantly talking on msn to her and texting her. So I told her I was going to take a walk and be back in 30 minutes. When I returned from my 30 minutes walk I met some fellow students that asked me to join for a movie. So I just went to watch a movie with them without telling my girlfriend anything. I didn't freeze her out on purpose. I just needed some time without her because she was an attention seeking maniac and it was just too much for me. So when I returned to my room I noticed she called me like 15 times. While I was checking the phone she called me a 16 th time. So I took up the phone and she started screaming like hell. I don't remember what I said but it doesn't matter because for her there was no excuse for what I had done. The next day she cooled down and wanted me 10 times more than before. So freezing out might be a possibility.

Freezing out can work because you show you are nonneedy. A woman wants you to want her so much that you would do everything for her. The moment she feels that she got you in the position that you would do everything for her, she will drop you like a rock. That is how they are. I learned this the hard way. And now I make use of this knowledge. You have to be carefull though. If you freeze her out too early she might think you are an ass and drop you. But freezing the girl out on the right moment is gold.

Yes, and something that is completely not true is also utter bullshit. That does not make it a respectful way to say it. And please, when it comes to opinions, there is no such thing as "completely not true".
Ok, now that not respecting a person is a crime, no less, please bear in mind my previous comment. Please note how I used the expression "doesn't look like it made you a better person", instead of, for example, "you are a complete dick". The difference being that I am implying the possibility that I might be wrong, and probably am, I just don't like it when someone calls my opinion complete nonsense.
Yes, I am a bot. You called me on that one.
No, he should listen to himself, but thats just my opinion. I leave it up to him to decide if it is complete nonsense or not.
This is true. Being needy is never a good thing, even in long-term relationships. But from reading Bonfire's post I certainly didnt get the impression that he is needy. Not freezing out your GF is not needy, calling and texting her constantly is. If he did that, I would probably advise him not to.
Exactly my point. I'm not saying ALL the PUA stuff is useless, I'm just saying that it is designed to get a woman attracted to you as quickly as possible. But in the long run it won't matter how much ESP, NLP, freeze out techniques or push/pull you use, she will see the real you. In fact I can't imagine anyone wanting to be C/F in a 3-year relationship. I know what I am talking about, I am married. You know what would happen if I tried to freeze out my wife? I'd be DEAD.
Then again, maybe I exaggerated the seriousness of this whole thing. It's obvious you like her, but are probably not looking for anything too long-term.

Sorry for the long post and good luck!

Firstly, PUA techniques are not "designed" to do anything. PUA techniques generally are a measure of what is successful in attracting a women and what it is not. Men with high levels of testestorone demonstrate these techniques naturally because this hormone produces an attractive personality to women - the attitude that no particular woman is important to them, the bad boy, the leader, the guy surrounded by other guys, aggressive etc.

PUA techniques also play oppposite to the wrong social upbringing that men should buy presents for women, buy them drinks, pay them compliments, pay for their dinner, shower them with attention etc. This upbringing is what has caused so many problems for men. Being needy, nice, caring etc. puts you into LBF if you apply it too much too soon. Sure, you can apply this attitude to LSE women and 1-4's. But if you want the hottest, best woman out there, you need to act like the best male out there.

I am not saying it is right to be like this. I am just saying that it is all about nature and it is all primal. Women strive to get a males attention (in particular the best male in the group), men show interest, perhaps sit with the woman (sleep with them) for a bit, then back to the group. A woman will not find a man who sits with her continually attractive. Her logicial mind wants her to, but it is her primal mind which is stronger. It is not natural/primal to be in a long term r/ship but society states you must - so we must obey.

Fortunately, if you continue this type of a r/ship with a woman up until she falls in love(needs you) with you then you can start to be more beta. Her primal mind has been loaded with positivity about you and will allow for your beta actions.

There is a difference in being married and the start of a young r/ship. A HUGE difference, so it is wrong to compare.

Firstly, I have to agree, I hate SMS myself. It is fine for a purpose, but like reading a book, it can be interpreted in very different ways depending on the person and the persons mood when reading it. I try to stay away from it now but sometimes it is the best way when you first start dating a woman.

Don't ignore her texts. Just keep them to a minimum. Take the attitude that if you WANT to answer, then do. If you don't, then DONT. Only reply if she says something interesting or funny. Don't reply if it is dull or boring. Of course, your attitude and life will affect whether or not you WANT to answer. If you have a full, big and active life, you will find that you WOULD only text when and how you can.
Again, if your life is full and active, then leaving her in the freezer is going to come naturally. It IS good for r/ships but what it does to the girl is to promote LSE within her. She will start doubting the r/ship and possibly herself. She will start doubting the reasons you gave her for not meeting up and instead imagine they were made up excuses.

You say you have been on 4 dates and met her family already?

The thing is with women is that when they like someone, they will pull a lot at them, want to do things, meet the family, go on lots of dates etc. and it is hard not to resist that if you are actively looking for a proper g/f. What you need to do in the early stages is keep it to once or twice a week, don't always be available and don't get drawn into her enthusiasm too much. When you do meet her, be positive and fun and most importantly leave her in a better state than when you met her.

Some of them certainly are. Or when a PUA says: "you have to make up a DHV story that includes preselection by women, leader of men... etc" that is not designing it to get a certain reaction from women?"

Yes, and they are born with the Cube as well.

Don't get me wrong, I know many of these techniques come naturally to some. And I am not against them. But some certainly can be counterproductive, if what you want is a long term serious relationship. For example, randomly freezing out a girl might get her into your bed faster 80% of the time, but it might destroy the relationship the other 20%. If your attitude is "there are other fish in the sea", then thats great. But if you really care about this girl and dont mind waiting a few more dates, then I dont suggest it.
Don't worry, I would know. I am not telling Bonfire to marry her, I just used it as an example how some techniques are great at the start but n/a later, in serious relationships. In some cases, I can see how it might be a problem if you only act C/F for the first 4 dates and then suddenly switch to your normal self. Or do you want to act C/F for the rest of your life?

Thanks to Crucial, NA and Don for their recent input. As for the HB and the cancel and freeze out this past Sunday I'd say it may as well have not happened at all! I got my work done, got to hang with some friends and yes, she's still texting me and calling me (same as ever), but what I have learned is that freezing out should be left for later down the road (fifth or sixth date). I can see no difference between the way she acted pre-freeze and post. Not even a "hey where were you on Sunday", just a "Good morning!" right when I woke up (easy IOI) so it wasn't a fail, but it didn't matter either way because her interest level was still the same.

So really what everyone can glean from this is that freezing out is technically just a term for HAVE A LIFE! Same principle applies to SMS. Reply when you can, reply when she says something meaningful. Like the dog and the bell, she'll start to realize you only respond when it's something meaningful. So remember, when you find your high level HBs don't go gaga and screw up your life to make EXTRA room for someone you just met. That's just creepy.
VERY good advice Crucial. You pointed to a pattern that I had seen in myself but reaffirmed my suspicion that women are very interested and may (consciously or unconsciously) be putting you through interest tests. If you're always available not only will you quickly run out of date ideas and reveal all the best parts of your life in casual conversation, but you will also show her you have NOTHING else going on but her! (and who wants to date a doorknob?)
I have been noting this in a lot of PUA techniques as well. If you mold to a certain PUA technique and want to continue any form of relationship after you're going to have to be yourself the WHOLE time! Nobody dates a shell.

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I have learned a lot with so much great input, but I've got a lot more questions (should I start a new thread for this?):

I'm having a lot of trouble with DHV and Kino escalations (naturally). In my style I tell a lot of jokes and am usually the center of attention. I'm most comfortable in big groups (5 or more) where it's easier for me to DHV and escalate kino, BUT I'm having trouble controlling DHVs and executing Kino escalations when I'm alone with my HBs. I'll either get the girl by luck because she's interested too and starts the kino first or we just kind of sit and laugh for a while at a few of my DHV stories. Nothing usually comes of the latter other than friendship. Are there any comfortable and natural techniques for escalating Kino while steering the conversation away from DHVs only? I'm absolutely certain she gets bored (because I'm pretty much boring myself after 5 or 6 DHVs).

What's all that about?

What's wrong with admiring punctuality? I think it shows a level of respect and maturity