Hi Folks Im Herne the Hunter and have recently had enough of being an AFC been reading a lot of articles but no field work tried yet.

Been doin the Im a nice Guy routine and been basically urinated on by girls for the last 15 years---Ive been reading a lot of the articles and am in full agreement with what ye say about wussyness and beta male behaviour and that nice guys do actually finish last.

A lot of the master PUAs say you need to stop being a wuss but you dont have to become a jerk.

Anyway to get to the point i was crazy about this cute girl and wanted to get to know her treat her with respect in an honourable way blah blah blah---she works in a shop that i go into the first 3 times i went in she was hyper friendly and flirty with me---i was about to initiate conversation with her with a view to talking to her and asking her out once she felt comfortable with me---when hey surprise surprise suddenly her friendly bubly face turned into a scowl---no more hellos no more smiles--it was all buisness only---''10 dollars sir''--''heres your change''---no smile ,no hello, no thank you, for a finish---i made a couple of attempts at being friendly---she made no effort--no eye contact etc etc,

This is not the first time ive come across this behaviour from girls--its actually the norm from them as far as i see

I stopped going into the shop as much in case i would suddenly be regarded as a stalker--

-ive been in there about once a month for the last year

----now heres the thing---I got fed up making an effort to try and warm up the princess i stoped trying to speak or make conversation or smile at her for the last 4 months---i go in say''that brand of cigs'' hand her the money and walk out without saying thanks either

-----suddenly she became interested----there was then a situation where she was bringing a trolly in the shop door --it was a situation where before i would have been on turbo wuss running to open the door for her---this time ignored her---she didnt like it one bit judging by the glares she was making at me later.

After a few weeks i went in again and she gave me a very lame hi while looking at the floor---I deliberately snubbed her----she did not like it one bit.


What im getting at is maybe some of them deserve to be treated this way---suddenly im getting attention from her even if its hostile---and ive redeemed some of my self respect by treating her this way--to be honest id rather be an enemy that ''lets just be friends'' ''ur a nice guy crap''---I have enough friends who think im a nice guy--I dont need any more.

is Going over to the darkside the answer for me----heres another one--in my AFC life i tried talking to girls or asking them on dates only to hear ''but I dont know you'' or the more polite version of but'' i dont know you well enough''

I got so fed up with this that through bitterness i started geting my torpedo in first on user/ needy hot babes who were trying to get nice guy here to do chores for them or give them lifts etc--right after they would ask for the favour i started quoting them their famous line-''but i dont't know you''

AND guess what--it was like ''does not compute system over load--it was if i had punched the user straight in the mouth--they had this confused look on their face-- and they got the message that it wasnt a nice thing to say to someone it also had the effect that they couldnt use it themselves on me in the future.a couple of them even nodded in respect when they got the message

What im asking is should fire be fought with fire--should their Sxxt be played on them
Is going over to the Darkside of being and arrogant self important shallow superficial person the answer--Should becoming a Jerk be completely ruled out---I felt good to get hitting back after years of crap and rejection from them---dont get me wrong I like women but id like them a lot more if they stopped being so self centred and bitchy

One word: Balance

You have to be able to differentiate between when you're being nice, and when you're supplicating. When you're being a jackass, or when you're standing up for yourself. It's a dance, it isn't just black(all jerk) or white(all nice) it's a whole lotta gray.

Thanks dude---the frightening thing was i was good at being bad--and strange thing was id of sworn it was actually getting me someplace with her finally

Seriously have to work on my oneitis as well

I look at it another way. It's not about being a nice guy or a jackass/jerk. It is about attraction.

By all means, open doors for them, hold out seats for them, etc etc, as long as you generate attraction (there are enough posts littered around the forum on the topic).

good point. i meant it in a very broad, general sense. your way sort of narrows it down to a certain specificity, in my opinion. i think the best way to learn is to first look at the big picture, and then with the big pic in mind, you can look at the specifics with a bit more understanding than if you just looked at the what. the how and the why are just as important.

Cheers,
Patrick

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it's ALWAYS free game.

heres something ive noticed from experience about the girls not seeing you lark---ive come across the following scenario at least 200 times---your walking down street--no one else there apart from a chick walking towards you 20 yards away--ur used to them looking down at their feet or dead straight ahead without noticing you--but if you are so used to this and you decide that im not going to bother looking at her either--and your looking dead straight past her---out of the corner of your eye-side vision you will notice that girl has taken her eyes off that imaginary spot in front of her or taken her head out of her ass and is looking at you in a confused/rejected way.

Is pretending not to see guys some kinda genetically built in female hard to get game--and they cant accept that--here is some guy that doesnt think im a beauty queen that should be gaped at-system overload no plan B