I don't even know where to begin.

I appreciate the earnestness and candor of Magnum's posts. I'm convinced he has good intentions. However, there is one blinding fundamental contradiction:

Magnum asserts that no PUAs are happily married. He infers that this is a flaw.
Magnum also asserts that PUAs are simply using the admiration of women to validate themselves. He infers that this is also a flaw.

Yet, to wit, I don't believe that the primary goal in life is to get hitched. The goal in life is to achieve self-awareness, pursue clarity in your relationship with truth, find goals and apply yourself to them, and then create something from the origins of your thinking mind in the attempt to be the best achieving human being you can possibly be.

Certainly, marriage can be a part of that, but it is by no means paramountly necessary.

So, by making a successful happy marriage the object and definition of success, you're STILL USING the admiration of women to validate yourself. It doesn't matter if you're out sarging or watching your bride walk down the aisle to you. The goal is to not need ANYONE to validate you. To be able to say, "I don't need women to validate myself. I alone will determine if I feel validation in my actions." Otherwise, your worth as a human being is simply at the whim of the collective.

The game is simply a set of tools to help you eliminate any source of fear from your body by forcing yourself to do the scariest thing we men have been socially programmed to fear: talking to girls.

If I can use the game to get over this fear, then every other problem in life has the volume turned down on it. Paying my cell phone bill on time when I number closed a HB10 at the library last night? No problem. Selling my product to a purchasing agent at a sales convention after I stole a girls chair, played the 5 questions game, entertained her friends for hours with great original stories and then honestly connected and listened to her tell me her most meaningful goal in life? Too easy drill sergeant.

Sure, there are guys out there simply using it to get laid. And hey, getting laid is fun. It's damn fun in fact. But the picture is much bigger than that.

To reiterate: Having your validation come through girls you sarge OR the girl you marry is not ultimately leading towards inner contentment.

"Always have a better answer."

hahaha

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V3nu

lol

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THIS USER HAS BEEN BANNED FOR BREAKING RULES 2, 3, 8, AND 9

Certainly could not have said it better myself.

Very interesting post! You think because I want marriage then my source of validation comes from the success of a happy marriage. On the other hand, PUA’s find validation with sleeping with women, and being successful in achieving their desires -- using PUA tools.

If I am correct above, then I understand your point, and it's the best point I have heard since I went on this rampage. Unfortunately, it's not going to pursade me to change my position.

Marriage:
Is a time honored tradition.

Mainstream American society gives people value for marriage.

Children are raised in a traditional value system, which helps to produce stable and productive generations of people.



PUA:
Is sex.

It’s using tools to get what you want.

It's undermining a value system put into place over hundreds of years of practice.

There’s no need to work through problems in a long-term relationship, if you can just move on.


I think everyone who’s a PUA is a quitter. They quit living their life because it was to hard to bear. So, they look to living someone else’s life. They compared themselves to other people and calculated their lower approval rate with society. Yes! Society is a double edged sword. On one hand, it promotes family values and marriage, and on the other hand, it promotes competion – which creates losers. To over come being a loser one must think positively about his self image, and never compare him-self to others. A “losers” happiness will be different than a man who has a body to die for, and lived his life persuading others to his desires. If you don’t naturally allow yourself to think and feel the twenty years of programming society and your parents have given you, then you are slapping yourself in the face. You assume that getting women and power is what’s important because other men are able to be loved using these techniques. Society makes you assume this, and that is why many of you turn away from society’s traditional values.

I say to you! Do not turn away from societies values, but rather turn away from the negative comments your mind makes, and the jealously you feel when you compare yourself to other peoples successes.

I understand that people need help, but focusing on PUA is going to lead down a road that will not bring ultimate satisfaction.

This is a new concept I am arguing, but believe me; I have valid points to assert my opinions.

Sincerely,
Magnum45

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Walk Hard

Well, I appreciate the kind words about my point, however, I must be honest here: That last post of yours was the biggest bunch of pseudo-intellectual gibberish I've encountered in a long time. Seriously. I hope the other people in the forum that just read that are laughing aloud with me. It's like listening to Oprah. First of all, it's hard to even follow your point, and there are so many contradictions that it really invalidates everything you're saying.

Yet, I will proceed with correcting a few obvious errors.

PUAing is NOT undermining a "hundreds of years of practice value system of marriage."

I think guys have been picking up girls at bars/coffee shops/libraries/K-marts/brothels/town meetings/Renaissance Fairs/castle balls for QUITE SOME TIME NOW. This is nothing new. Men have been sleeping with women and men have been sleeping with men and women have been sleeping with men and women have been sleeping with women for AT LEAST a couple of years. Or so I've heard.

Your perspective of history, which you blatantly bastardize at every opportunity to prove whatever contradictory point enters your mind (anybody reading this can go back to page two and check out this guy's attempt to assail PUAing by using the template of the assassination of Julius Caesar, which he repeated spells as "assignation"), needs an education that you can't find in Seventeen magazine, or wherever you ascertain your contrived and affected philosophy.

Last time I checked, you can read for a lifetime JUST on the royal mistresses of European monarchs in the 17th century if you want. Or you can research the history of prostitution in Europe during the Phylloxera outbreak of the 1860's; women being lured into men's chambers by grapes.

Pretending that a group of guys on the internet in the early 21st century who created some rules called "false time constraints, IOI's, number closing, and Yes Ladders" are leading themselves and society down a dark tunnel with no light at the end is simply silly.

What we're doing is NOTHING NEW.

We're just doing it better than our predecessors.

And please, please go re-read what you're writing and TRY to make sense of it. First you say that you shouldn't pay attention to what society tells us. Then you tell us if we don't accept the way that we've been "programmed" that we're "slapping ourselves in the face." Then you tell us that we're quitters that create negativity and jealously when we look at other people's successes.

What the hell are you talking about?

Seriously. This is like listening to my mother give me a pep talk after she watched too many episodes of "The View." There is no real argument or substance to what you're saying. I honestly don't know why I'm even bothering to write this, aside from the fact that it's a bye week for my Chicago Bears. I guess it needs to be said.

To all my fellow boys out there that are working on self improvement and learning the rules of the game: You are NOT quitters. Don't be lured in to feeling self-doubt by poorly written rhetoric.

Turn yourselves into the men you want to be, and if you choose to get over your fear of talking to females in the meantime: AWESOME. You've hit success on the fucking head.

There are no asterisks in life. Only scoreboards. So go win the damn game.

That's enough. Happy Sarging.

Yea your right. Being a PUA is something all of our children should aspire to be.

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Walk Hard

Quippy response. Enjoy your TiVo.

If you want to raise your children to be seduction artist then it's all good. I on the other hand think that using tools to get what you want is selfish, and people who are not intrested in sleeping with many women -- will not respect you for it. If you can't see the error in your ways then you will never change.

I think you are selfish and can't handle the pain you feel from being alone. So you manipulate women to feel satisfaction in your life.

You should focus on your life and feel satisfied without control. Control will cause you to lose trust among friends and collegues. It is harder to give up control for the sake of allowing the women to make an educated choice. Attraction comes after you have shown your true colors.

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Walk Hard

I'm pretty sure sex has been around longer than marriage has.

The institution of marriage and the value system associated with it is immoral, oppressive, and should be abolished just like slavery was. I think that, if people want to get together monogamously, that's fine, but it should not be insitutionalized with an assigned value system both de facto and de jure.

This would explain why you are a PUA.

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Walk Hard

while i agree that the 'community' has come to have a lot of snake oil salesmen and sociopathic people. I have had the honor of watching it develop since asf. Things have changed a lot and some of them not for the better. my ex girlfriend who was a beautiful brazillian girl. left me for another woman. I had been with her for alomst 5 years. I had absolutly NO social skills. after a quick search i found SS. most people don't even know what speed seduction is anymore. so i was there pre M3 model. The stuff was revolutionary because it worked...very very well... and as a matter of fact every single model today is built on meet.attract.close. the problem that has occured magnum is that this stuff has become so mainstream that everyone uses it. which faults the orginal premise of 'be the exception'. so you want game bro. be the exception to the rule. be diffent. be the player in the game not another pawn.

just some thoughts,
rockstar

I have something really important to tell you:

I was in that exactly situation few years ago, I was reading about those rules, routines etc. and I though to my self THIS IS BULLSHIT!

If I want to get laid I should stop reading how to do it, I HAVE TO TAKE MYSELF AND REALLY DO IT, go there and try! this is the best way to learn!

and when I was "playing the game"(like they call it) I though to my self NOW IM NATURAL AND I DONT WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME AND FOLLOW THE RULES IVE READ ON THE NET, I WANT TO BE ME, GET LAID BECAUSE OF ME AND NOT BECAUSE I KNOW HOW BY READING IT...

you know what I realized?.. I WAS DOING EXACTLY THE SAME WHAT I WAS READING!!!!!!! (ive realized it later)

MAYBE NOT PERFECTLY DONE AND NOT EXACTLY HOW IT WAS TOLD TO DO BUT I DID IT IN MY WAY!!!!! I FELT NATURAL BECAUSE I SAID TO MY SELF THAT IM NOT GONNA TRY THING THAT I READ BUT I WILL DO WHAT MY MIND WILL TELL ME TO DO-GUESS WHAT-I DID WHAT I WAS READING, BUT IN A MYSTERIOUS WAY I FEEL GOOD WITH IT, I FEEL GOODDD!!

So I'll should stop with the caps and I should tell you what I wanted to tell you at the beginning:




YOU DONT BELIEVE IN THIS RULLES?.. FOLLOW YOUR OWN!
rewrite them, edit them, fit them, write new rules, your rules, PLAY YOUR GAME!

Thanks, that's a compliment.

While Chief is living it up with beautiful women, you sit at home stressing about "omg pu is so badd! Ohhhhh"

Point is, this world is a dog eat dog world.

I don't, nor do you care about women's feelings as much as we express it.

Point is, even by giving people free money, it's not really "free" you still gain SOMETHING out of it, maybe if not physical capital, you gain mental capital, like well-being, no depression.

We all seek value, we all seek gain, we give to get.

Don't you ever think that by being faithful and showing love, that that's selfless, you're still GAINING something.

You're displaying an illusion of separation, which isn't healthy.

Just give in, already.

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THIS USER HAS BEEN BANNED FOR BREAKING RULES 2, 3, 8, AND 9

Actually not ALL of us are like that. To be honest, I care about how a woman feels and I'm sure others do.
But its not at the expense of someone's feelings.