Hey guys - I'm 17 and I've never really been a ladies' man. I have had girls like me some but never the real popular/hot ones. I'm always the nice guy and the friend zoner.

I'm real funny and stuff but I get caught in the conversation with women and forget to continue flirting.

Also, I know that I'm suppose to seem too busy and stuff and sort of ignore them, but in my experience, they just decide I dont wanna be friends with them and they stop talking to me. On the other hand, I'm told I should never ask a girl I like to hangout one on one or anything because it will show that I like them too much and it will turn them off! what the f***? How do I get a girl if I never spend any time with them alone or let them know how I feel?

There's this one real hot girl at work im interested in. We were talkin one night and I got her number and i was flirtin and stuff. called her the next night to work out plans for a group organization she wants to go to and she implied she would like me to call back later that night - I told her i had things to do. Anyways, I am REALLY into her but she always falls for the douchebags and im not one of those guys. how can I ask her out or something without giving her the upper hand?

please answer my general question or the specific one. thanks - good forum.

anybody?

Err... no. I don't think anyone has ever said that. At some point you need to ask the girl out.

The only thing even similar is suggesting you'd like to see her again without directly asking, thus prompting her to give you her number or something... but at some point you do need to hint, tell or ask for 1 on 1 time.


EDIT: Showing too much interest is more like calling several times a day, calling her right away if she doesn't return a call or always being available when she wants to get together.

So for this girl I like - where should I ask her to hangout? Is lunch just good enough for the first time? I'm worried theres not enough natural ways to do kino there. I had thought about going to the park/lake with her and chillin but that seems kinda ridiculous and push-over ish. How should I ask to hangout and what are good ideas? Keep in mind we are both 17 and she has guys ALL OVER HER all the time. so she doesnt need me im just puttin myself out there to see since i know she thinks im cool.

Wow... this is a little scary. I feel like I'm starting to actually learn this stuff...

First of all, she does need you. You are better than all those guys. If you don't believe that, she will agree with you. Look up some of the stuff on frame control and inner game around here.

Second, it probably doesn't matter that much where you take her. Don't choose a place because you can/can't do kino. I'd say choose something you find fun, and secondly something you think she'll enjoy. That way you'll be more comfortable, in a better frame of mind and she'll enjoy it too.

bttt

you have to learn to give a shit, while not giving a fuck

_________________
Every Saint has a Past, Every Sinner has a Future

thanks? explain please.

In order to define a balance you need to define the concepts, as a lot of people have no idea about what differs these points, in fact, they aren't really a shared statistic.

Not caring is an ability you don't want to evolve, cause if you didn't care you would be apathic. However, you should also just keep this at a normal place, for instance: Don't reward unless the person deserves it. If you do, then that is mainly how you get into the friend-zone.

Not showing interest is also bullshit in my opinion. MM advocates it and so do a lot of other people, and of course, it works fine in the start. But what if you actually get the girl? You can't keep this up forever, and I don't see why you should, as you can get at least equal if not more girls by going direct.

Over to what the problems tend to be. The problem is never the amount of interest, or the amount of caring, not at all. It is strictly the one thing that screws you up, dependency. Really, this is the thing that get you into the friend-zone and even at times into the 'stalker-zone'.

Live your own life, be happy when you meet her, and talk to her. But do not expect reactions, just go with the actions you want to. Do this and I can guarantee you that you will look with different eyes on 'gaming' in the future.

- Exerio

Convey that you are interested sexually, but give them mixed messages to keep them guessing. this alone conveys that you are a challenge

If you have created enough attraction initially...she will WANT you to convey you are sexually interested, what girl wouldnt? afetr all she is now ATTRACTED to you.

General rule of thumb is to only show interest once she has. HOWEVER if you havent really had a chance to create attraction the first time you met her and things are still fairly neutral, but you want to see her again...well then you only have one choice and thats to ask her out. Tell her you want to meet up....BUT make it sound very UNdate like. ie. as if you just wana hang out and do something cool with her. no dinner, no movie etc. cos that spells DATE to a girl. Oh, and NEVER stop teasing her. As soon as you do you will notice the sexual tension starting to die.

I always try make hanging out on MY terms, this makes you a little harder to get hold of, so if she asks to do something be like oh I might by a little busy, can I get back to you. Then make it a time that suits you, which should be because you are so busy, not because your gaming her, but if it is don't worry Also when setting up a date I think that it's good to make it like your going to do something cool and it was an after thought to invite her along. Hey I'm heading to the beach today, you should come along. That sorta thing. I don't think that being one on one is a bad thing, it can only help strengthen your relationship. Hope this helps.