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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:51 pm 
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Quick note - I tried to post this elsewhere...but i'm still too "new".

Short version -
I'm totally awe-struck by the granular breakdown of every single aspect of game, just on this forum alone.

I'm reminded of a golf swing - try not to have more than 300 separate thoughts going through your head at any moment.

I've long been aware of all the terminology, ins and outs, gambits, etc. And what I've discovered is that all of this stuff is useless if you don't have any confidence. Or as I like to say, without the attitude, nothing works.

Gents look at a natural with women - and since there's little or no physical differences between him and themselves, they think it must be what he said to them - or he must have spectacular tricks and methods.

And the truth is - IMO - if I am totally confident in myself, I can go out at talk to women about aluminum cans and outscore an insecure guy armed with all the latest, greatest and up-to-datest lines, methods and systems.

I believe that concentrating on anything other than myself - and turning myself in to what women are attracted to (A strong, confident man - again IMO) - then I'm a fake and wasting my time. And I say that because let's say I use some of David D's cocky and funny routines, and let's say she gets interested as a result. If I'm not in reality THAT guy I just came off as, I will sooner or later (and probably sooner) be exposed. She'll be confused, and disappointed, and walk.

Am I off my rocker? I don't thinks so - but I do acknowledge that a shit-ton of method and training and all that does help a lot of men. But at the end of the day, I would argue that what makes it work is that they mustered up the confidence to try that shit in the first place. THAT's what attracts a woman.

What say you?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:39 pm 
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I think it all comes down to what you as an individual want to get out of the seduction community.

If you are that person who just wants to go out and have one night stands and never talk to the other person, then I don't see how acting fake would bother you.

I would bet, however, that most of the people who are on this forum are people who have been through unpleasant experiences with the opposite gender, or no experiences at all. Some people are here because they are shy and want to open up and climb out of that shell.

Assuming that the later is the right idea, no one is here to act fake. People are here to change themselves as a whole. These routines you see on here, they are nothing but skeletons and ideas that should be taken and changed around. They should eventually stop being routines and just become a part of your natural personally.

You said you have tried out David D routines before... how did they work for you? Obviously you said it wasn't you, but if it worked for others, it may turn on that light bulb in their head that makes them think, "Okay, this worked, but why?". To someone who is not a very funny / confident person, them seeing this work can change their natural mentality to "Okay, so now I know I am funny. I can be confident and people like me." They aren't using routines anymore but they recognized the behavior behind it and can incorporate that into everyday life until it just become second nature. Being natural is not being fake.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:42 pm 
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JD Dallas, you are exactly correct. If I remember correctly, in MM Mystery wrote that finally, if you your internal game is completely solid, your external game will in turn be gold. What is inside of us is reflected on the outside to a certain degree.


Pick-up methods are 100% useless unless you spend a significant amount of time in-field. The idea of PUA is not to give you a bunch of routines, but to sharpen that spiritual blade which lies within you. The routines are manifestations, and if they become the focus of your endeavors, your skills, from my understanding, will be superficial at best. These skills, lines, patterns, everything are a means to an end - not the end in and of themselves.

So, everyone - study PUA hard if that's what interests you, but for God's sake, sarge at least once per week if not more. Start tonight. Go on!

All this should be obvious to everyone - and everything you seriously take up in life should be treated in this way. This is the only way to really connect with what you do in life, to let life move you.



Sorce

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:41 pm 
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One of the things I love about this message board is that I've got two responses, and both from different sides of the aisle.

Good stuff, gentlemen.

I still contend that even if you have "technique" the thing that makes it work is that you mustered the confidence in the first place to go try it out. Confidence is what is sexy.

I was hopeless and helpless when it came to meeting women, dating women, even talking to women. Oh, I might get a girlfriend from time to time accidently - not really sure how I did it - and then have her dump me after a while. And the crazy thing was, I thought I was the ONLY GUY in the world who felt this way. I thought I was unique when it came to being single.

But, as it turns out, the more I thought I was unique, the more I found out I was the same as A LOT of other guys.

Let me explain that a bit.

I could zero in on a problem area of my life - for example, being dateless - and convince myself I was THE ONLY MAN with this issue. The more I would worry about it, the more acute the problem became. I was hyper-aware of other guys with girlfriends and dates, and it seemed every guy I knew had no problems meeting women.

Have you ever felt like that? Gone out somewhere and it seems like EVERY guy had a date or a girl with him? And that you were somehow missing the boat, and it would probably always be that way?

I think you and I both know this condition is a lot more common than it first appears. If you don't know it - trust me, it's true. Almost every man goes through a period of time where he feels this way. But the tragic thing is, some guys NEVER get out of it. It's what you might call the wrong attitude.

But in my experience, terminal single-ness isn't a unique thing - and it isn't beyond repair.

Since I've been teaching men to be successful with Dating and Women, I've gained tons of insight and experience into the right attitude that makes being successful work.

I wasn't born into the right attitude or the wrong attitude. So let me start by saying that getting to the point in my life where I had the wrong attitude took some time. Years and years of not being successful had its consequences. Going through life doing the wrong things with women built up my attitude toward women and dating, and became WHO I WAS.

I went through the actions, and became that person. I became the guy who didn't do well with women.

The good news is the same can be said for getting the right attitude.

It doesn't happen overnight. But it does happen.

You can start taking the right actions, and become that person, too.

Have you ever heard the advice, "If you want to be rich, hang around rich guys and do what they do." ?

Well, that's were I'm headed with this.

The approach I took was sort of a "fake it til you make it".

I got a hold of new skill sets, techniques, pick up lines, the works. Lots of good stuff, all of which wasn't part of who I was - but was part of who I wanted to be. I wanted to be a guy who always said the right things to women - things that would make them think of me as a boyfriend, sexual partner, a man - anything other than "another friend" or some creep. I wanted to be the guy who had tons of women to date.

That's where training, coaching and learning come into to play. Like with anything else you want to learn, you start with the basics, some repetitive actions, and build a new skill set. The real magic happens when that stuff starts to become automatic.

It starts to become who you are.

One of my favorite things to do was to start presenting myself as the guy I wanted to be. Just to my friends at first.

So my attitude was, "I'm the guy in our group who gets all the women". Anytime something like that would come up in conversation, I'd react and act like "the guy that gets all the women".

It wasn't too long before I started to become known as that guy. That was the beginning of the change in attitude.

Fast forward to now, I teach men everyday how to be successful with women.

Along the way, getting to that point, EVERYBODY would ask me "how to do it".

Questions like, Where do you FIND these women? What do you say to them? How do you know when to kiss a women? Etc. etc.

I really had to think about it. I mean, did really know exactly what to say? I must have, because I was good at meeting women. Usually, I just winged it - just went up and started talking to them. I knew it was going to be a challenge to get the answers the guys wanted and needed, because it wasn't easily defined.

I just knew how and when to do it. I was a natural.

In the process of thinking about it and breaking it down - I was able to retrace the path to becoming this dating guru that everyone turned to. With some time and effort I was able break it down. I couldn't remember, for example, EVERYTHING I said - but I started to see some consistencies in situations and conversations that just seemed to work.

Some naturals are just born that way - the rest of us have some work to do to get there.

That work is the techniques, the experience, the lines - the nuts and bolts of the actions I took to get to the point where I had a change in attitude, and I was supremely successful with women.


Because you can get "pick-up lines" anywhere. There's tons of great stuff out there - just ask me. I've bought and read and practiced it ALL.

But to make them work, you have to be coming from the right mindset. The right attitude. All the technique in the world is ultimately useless if it's just a technique and doesn't transform who you are.

Don't get me wrong - just knowing SOME of the inside info, like what to say and where to go, etc...helped me be much more successful than I EVER was before. But I still could feel that something was missing. Or I'd eventually be "discovered" as not the guy who pulled off the pick- up once I started dating these newfound women.

I couldn't just come off at the beginning as a natural - then revert back to my old patterns of being a wimp with women. That was the trouble with techniques and lines - women constantly TEST you to see if you are for real. The HATE weakness in a man, and will try to expose it whenever they can to get to the real you.

But as long as the real you IS that strong, attractive, confident MAN that got her attention in the first place - she'll be there until you decide to cut her loose. Bank on it.

Women are always looking for a reason to "eliminate" you from their consideration, hence the "tests". But here's the big thing I discovered - they're also looking for a reason to fall for you. Which reasons - what evidence - do you want to give her?

I think we all know how to make a woman run screaming from the room - but not every man knows how to make her attracted right away.

The best thing you can do is make a decision. Now.
That you want to get this area of your life handled, and kill your inner-wimp.
Then, get ahold of some technique - and start practicing. Now.

Find guys who are good with women and watch them in action. Befriend them. Ask them questions. Do whatever you need to do get some advice and get moving forward.


The key is, if you aren't born a natural - like very very few men are - then you can and should become a natural. Stop waiting around for something to happen and take some action. Dive in, make some mistakes, learn new things. to tell you it can be done. A lot easier than you might think.

_________________
~ This Link to My Dating and Attraction Website - Free Content and More ~
www.modernmalelifestyle.com


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:01 pm 
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Quote:
JD Dallas, you are exactly correct. If I remember correctly, in MM Mystery wrote that finally, if you your internal game is completely solid, your external game will in turn be gold. What is inside of us is reflected on the outside to a certain degree.


Pick-up methods are 100% useless unless you spend a significant amount of time in-field. The idea of PUA is not to give you a bunch of routines, but to sharpen that spiritual blade which lies within you. The routines are manifestations, and if they become the focus of your endeavors, your skills, from my understanding, will be superficial at best. These skills, lines, patterns, everything are a means to an end - not the end in and of themselves.

So, everyone - study PUA hard if that's what interests you, but for God's sake, sarge at least once per week if not more. Start tonight. Go on!

All this should be obvious to everyone - and everything you seriously take up in life should be treated in this way. This is the only way to really connect with what you do in life, to let life move you.



Sorce
You make a great point.

PUA is just sharpening your social blade, it shouldn't be a new sword.

Balance is great.

Without theory and reading your blade is rusty and it wont go through their flesh and bones, or maybe just their flesh and not the bone.

And without a sword, there's nothing to sharpen (I.e. total AFCs aka 400 pound losers with 1 inch dicks)

Good point.

And JD I skimmed your post and it's quite interesting - I'll read it fully when I have the time.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:24 pm 
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Badolzon

wow - nice analogy. I love the sword to the bone concept.

my post - that you skimmed - could actually be summarized as thus:

I was pretty average at best with women. Lots of LTR's that always ended the same way.

I started looking into methods, systems, the whole pick up community thing - and it helped in the sense that I felt like I didn't know what to say to women - which is what I think most men go through when they see a woman they want to approach.

At a minimum - having something to say gave me the tiniest shot of confidence, and the more I approached, (crashed and burned, had some success, the whole gamut) the more I realized that - for me - confidence and attitude above all else was what I needed.

In this respect, though, methods and systems and gambits and game helped push me over the edge to develop my own voice and my own confidence and game.

And it all boiled down to a simple equation: If I have more invested in a relationship or interaction than she does - she walks. If she has to work harder than me, she stays.

Translation: Value.

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www.modernmalelifestyle.com


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:03 pm 
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Quote:
Badolzon

wow - nice analogy. I love the sword to the bone concept.

my post - that you skimmed - could actually be summarized as thus:

I was pretty average at best with women. Lots of LTR's that always ended the same way.

I started looking into methods, systems, the whole pick up community thing - and it helped in the sense that I felt like I didn't know what to say to women - which is what I think most men go through when they see a woman they want to approach.

At a minimum - having something to say gave me the tiniest shot of confidence, and the more I approached, (crashed and burned, had some success, the whole gamut) the more I realized that - for me - confidence and attitude above all else was what I needed.

In this respect, though, methods and systems and gambits and game helped push me over the edge to develop my own voice and my own confidence and game.

And it all boiled down to a simple equation: If I have more invested in a relationship or interaction than she does - she walks. If she has to work harder than me, she stays.

Translation: Value.
Yes, I focus the most on creating value - value exchanges.

I noticed no matter how high of an initial value you have at first, you can lower it.

No matter how good looking you are if you're all over her she'll bounce.

It's all about balance - too much of ANYTHING is bad.

Even too much air and water is bad for you - hyperventilation / water poisoning.

Theory and systems are very important.

Perfect practice makes perfect.

If I'm approaching 1000 sets a month, but I gain nothing from those experiences/ I haven't used any methods, then I'm just gonna be the typical guy in the bar all the time.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:43 am 
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Quote:

If I'm approaching 1000 sets a month, but I gain nothing from those experiences/ I haven't used any methods, then I'm just gonna be the typical guy in the bar all the time.

Great Point.

All of ANY method or system is the product - or least, we hope is the product - of trial and error, and weeding out what "works" and what doesn't.

If it doesn't come from field experience, then it's just theory. I suppose it could be mathematically proven, ala E=mc2, but what's the fun in that?

It's a lot like swimming. Jump in. You can read about it all you want, but until you get in the water, you can't swim.

when in doubt, approach.

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