Attn: People OBSESSED with Natural Game



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:09 am 
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some people get a little out of hand when they dicsover the power of inner game. in fact, i think someone people get so wrapped up in inner game, that they block out the rest of the world and forget its there.

don't get me wrong, studying inner game is important, and overlooking it is also a bad idea. however, improving your inner game to the point of absolute narcicism apparently leaves people out of touch with reality. i think that is why people are being so wacky around here lately. its almost like a brainwashed cult.

eventually these people will be hit with reality and come back down to earth. but i guess until that happens we'll continue to be bombarded with ridiculous threads like:

be a natural not a PUA!!!!!

all you need is inner game!!!!

just be yourself, forget what guru's tell you!!!!!

the game is all bullshit!!!!!!!

mystery/style lied to all of us!!!!!

routines don't work!!!!!

PUA makes everyone a robot. Be a natural!!!!!!

outergame is useless!!!!!!

structured game doesn't work!!!!!!

etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:10 am 
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I remember talking with you about this on the chat and I just want to say before the "fans of natural game" attacks this post that I agree with you 100%

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:07 am 
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A closed mind is the most expensive thing anyone can ever own. Your post shows an extreme lack of understanding, research and forethought... This posts makes you look like a fool not because of your belief in a specific structure, but because of your ignorance.

In the future if you'd like to make a thread that can serve to do more then make those with your stance collectively look like closed minded fools, while simultainously getting your ego stroked only by others who can't see past the bridge of their nose... then perhaps instead of blindly attacking, opening up a friendly discussion would be advisable... now that type of thread I would be happy to provide arguments for either side.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:08 am 
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some people get a little out of hand when they discover the power of outer game.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:32 am 
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Quote:
A closed mind is the most expensive thing anyone can ever own. Your post shows an extreme lack of understanding, research and forethought... This posts makes you look like a fool not because of your belief in a specific structure, but because of your ignorance.

In the future if you'd like to make a thread that can serve to do more then make those with your stance collectively look like closed minded fools, while simultainously getting your ego stroked only by others who can't see past the bridge of their nose... then perhaps instead of blindly attacking, opening up a friendly discussion would be advisable... now that type of thread I would be happy to provide arguments for either side.
I think you have totally misunderstood Sexcellents post, it is about not being close minded!
The people he describes are close minded, I think it is very important to be natural in your game but all those threads Sexcellent mentions are the close minded ones, the refute a big part of Pick Up that is proven to work, which path to select is up to to the PUA himself, but don't refute what others do when it is proven to work!
I say as long as PUAs are successful and they follow the motto of "leaving the girls better than they found them" let them do whatever works for them, people are different, and different peoples game differ! This is just the way it is!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:40 am 
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Why are you even discussing this?
I believe inner and outer game are related. If you change your outer game - your inner game will change. If you change your inner game - your outer game will change. You can not separate them - your internal state affects the way you stand, walk, talk and the way you stand, walk and talk affects your internal state.
There are some guys that prefer to focus on their inner game and some that prefer to focus on their outer game. And both of them are important.
Naturals are great but many of them rely on their intuition which is not 100% true. People who use outer game must focus on many things and techniques so it's hard to master it and you must constantly be aware of your delivery so it is much easier to mess it up. If you develop both your inner and outer game[by outer game I mean body language, routines, calibration, etc] then you can rely on your internal state but can also use some techniques when you think it's necessary so you won't be relying only on your intuition.
In my opinion it's best to stop thinking in terms of "Inner Game" or "Outer Game" and begin to view things as "Works For Me" or "Doesn't Work For Me" :D


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:00 am 
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People lack an understanding of how one go's about changing their belief system...

Playfellow you almost echoed my thoughts...

Outer game eventually BECOMES your natural inner game if done repeatedly. This is exactly how we replace/form new core beliefs about ourselves. Repeatedly behaving in a certain way (even if it is fake/in-congruent initially), coupled with visualizing that person we want to be.

Posted this about 20min ago....the topic was on anchoring but I meander into exactly how we change our 'inner game'/belief system...(from 'outer game')
Quote:

Quote:
It's the band-aid principle. it's fun for a while, but it's worthless in the long run.
End Quote:

Where did you get this horribly incorrect info from?

Check this out...it is not a gimmick...it is simply a form of controlling your emotional state, end of story. You have anchored thousands/millions of different states without even knowing it already in your life. When you initially had AA, that alone is an anchor! The THOUGHT/VISUALIZATION of approaching a women was anchored to the feeling/state of fear. In the same way that drinking alcohol to many people triggers the craving for a cigarette. It's impossible for us to get into a particular emotional state without a trigger....else that emotional state would be meaningless wouldnt it.

Now, as for your theory on it 'just fading away'...heres the thing, if you do not regularly anchor a particular state then yes the intensity of the state will 'fade' away, HOWEVER this does not mean it does not help you in the long (far from it!). Every single time you use that trigger to get yourself into state, what happens? You think, speak and BEHAVE differently. Now lets say for example you have anchored an emotional state of ultra confidence, once you have triggered that state you will BEHAVE more confidently. Now the very fact that you are BEHAVING in a certain way (in this case confidently) will slowly but surely re-train your subconscious mind to that of this confident state. Why, because our very behavior forms and strengthens our core beliefs.

Try public speaking 100 times, first off you will probably crap yourself, but i guarantee that after your 100th speach you will look back and see how your BELIEFS on public speaking and the fear you once had is now completely changed/morphed. You didn't even need to visualize anything to attain these new beliefs, you just forced yourself to act out, which imprinted new beliefs.

So, every single time you get yourself into state using a trigger, you are telling your subconscious mind that this is natural, this is who I am and you are impriting new beliefs...and after some time you will not need a trigger...you will BE that state, it will be a core belief of yours. Remember we are exactly what our subconscious believes, simple as that. And its all about communicating and re-training the subconscious to believe you are this new person that you would like to become.

Two main things that lead to changing our belief system is visualization/imagination (as the subconscious cannot tell the different between a real and imagined experience), and then the actual behavior (actually ACTING OUT will strengthen these beliefs).

Fundamentally that's all there is to self change/development. Experiencing a state long enough (through visualization OR real experience) until the subconscious believes it is real, and it will eventually without doubt, believe it real (this is exactly how you formed your CURRENT beliefs on everything in life).

You will find the above concepts in modern NLP, as well as personal development concepts which go back 100 years.

Jav I think its great that you tried anchoring, now get brilliant at it! It will change your world.

PUADave, awesome..as you say use everything at your disposal.

Once you start understanding HOW these techniques work on the mind, it will make so much sense (if it doesn't already!).


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:50 pm 
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Good points on how outer game becomes your inner game & inner game becomes your outer game. If you start with outer game I think most eventually interlize the routines & also build confidence off the successes of using canned material. If you get your inner game strong first you don't need much outer game. You can pretty much break all the rules.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:15 am 
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Nice thread!
I think the best is to be good at all worlds. Have strong innergame, have lots of canned material (but practice to deliver it naturally), be able to improvise on the spot (natural game), have an awesome lifestyle, etc

I'm a big fan of Mehow because although he uses some routines he is very smooth delivering them and has excellent frame control.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:34 pm 
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Routines work, and at the end of the day you'll still need them.

Thing is, don't copy every word someone else says. Make it a version that suits your personality. Because you are enough.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:48 pm 
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i agree - i rather prefer strong inner game - natural game but when al else fails i throw in my routines and stuff.
when i started it was like - natural was the backup and routines were the major part - now it's reverse


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