I feel like the community is good for the most part. I mean it DID change my life afterall.

But I feel like there are so many brick walls I ran into before achieving my success.

Many of the "aspiring PUAs" are worried about shit tests and bitch shields and ask whether or not they did good and people actually respond positively.

I believe that is a bad thing to do. I feel like there is a "path" to success with PUA, but there are several several misleading branches.

Many PUAs are focusing on the wrong things, and then wonder what they are doing wrong.

Example: "I needed to pass this shit test and I failed. I will try doing THIS OTHER THING to pass it next time. I am improving myself, yay!"

Do anyone of these guys honestly think it's shit tests that successful men are focusing on? Do they think any of the Gurus or the Naturals give a shit about shit tests?

The term "shit test" is something PUAs decided to make up to rationalize their failures with women. Protects the PUA ego when in truth it's a simple confusion due to their own awkward personalities.

The community deviates from this 'path of success' with concepts like that of shit tests.

We should be focusing on changing and developing new personalities, not providing step by step "How To's".

Think of it this way:
Kid 1 learns the multiplication table via pure memorization. He doesn't realize the similarity between 5x6=30 and 6x5=30. No foundation to support his knowledge.
Just memorzies numbers. Doesn't understand 5x6 actually means adding 5 to itself 6 times in a row. So after learning from 1x1 to 12x12, how will he ever figure out what 528x203 is??

Kid 2 learns through logic. He knows that 5x6=6x5. He has a FOUNDATION of his knowledge. He can further expand his knowledge without the use of 'pure memory'. He can find out what 528x203 even though he has never done it before.


So Kid 2's education is what the PUA community SHOULD be implementing.
But soo much of Kid 1's education is around that it's making it hard to lay down a foundation, or a PERSONALITY.

I just hope this sticks to everyone's minds. I just hope people have these thoughts in their heads while being active in this community.

<33 Grape

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I agree and disagree.
You really think so? Women themselves admit that they test guys in this way, I dont think its all smoke and mirrors. In fact the more shit tests I see, the more obvious they seem and the more easily I find myself noticing them.

And ye I agree with your arithmetic example....dont give a man fish, teach him how to fish. There is however a mix of both of these on the forum from what I've seen. Plenty of 'how to' fish too.

There is however IMO a lack of connecting the personal development/self help side of it with the PUA side of it. A newbie, after reading a few posts would probably think that being a PUA simply requires learning a few canned lines/skills and working on that little thing called confidence....meanwhile its about becoming a new 'person', which takes time. It is a life changing experience which involves continually retraining your subconscious mind and replacing limiting beliefs with new liberating beliefs which will enable you to succeed. It works like this for all 3 sectors of your life...health,finance and personal. They call it 'development' for a reason, you are continually ACTIVELY changing by the day.....for the better!

I've been into personal development for about 5 years now and it has quite literally changed my life (especially financially). I see my PUA development as a corner stone to the 'personal' sector of my life mentioned above ie. family/friends, people skills (with male and females), relationships, love, sex, social dynamics and human behavior etc.

I then have completely separate development 'programs'/studies for the financial and health side of my life.

All of this is true.

Some people are more prone to just "learn" without "understanding" I dont think there is anything we can do to change that. I just focus on the ones who are prepared to go beyond the "quick and easy path" the "just do what I say and all will work out" mentality.

About the brick wall... Yes we all face major difficulties and many at that. But the fact is that we face them as we progress. People who do not learn never face the problems because they dont know that the problems excist. How can you get attraction building problems if you never approach?

Ezo

I just feel that the PU community is turning out cookie cutter kids that really only revert back into AFCs or turns them into total donkey fluffers. It just falls to the committed people to advance as it does in the rest of society.

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When you masturbate, God kills a kitten... so do your part to help control the overflowing pet population.

this is because of the fact that on the internet you get all the information. and thus newbies think it ALL applies to them, when in reality, most of it won't.

Like I just read Herbal's Book and NOWHERE did he mention anything about shit tests and bitch shields or most of the common issues. He focused purely on putting your most attractive self forward.

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Every Saint has a Past, Every Sinner has a Future

This is true. But it's also true that women purposelessly ask questions to mess you up. That's why slowing down in response is showing you weren't bothered by them.

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If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name in a Swiss bank. - Woody Allen

I totally agree with Grape, you need to have a FOUNDATION for what you are doing or you are going to loose the attraction that you have built with the woman. If you are only getting women because you have memorized "pickup lines" then what happens when you run into a situation that you have never run into before? Or What if you can't keep that exceptional woman around when you do find her (yes this can be friends with benefits.) Don't get me wrong pickup lines are great, you need to know what to do, but you need a foundation for it first. Many guys can't delay gratification for ever a little while, if they could they would spend a little time working on themselves, then the pickup lines would work SO MUCH BETTER in the long run.

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Time to make some women dream about us!!!

The PUA com is a greate place to start, and i basicly agree that u need a foundation to build your skills on, and thus the begining of the "canned materials",and so, i find out from others what works and what doesn't, if u are realy an aspiring PUA, u will use what u read, and the experience of others to understand what women actualy want.
But here is the issue, most just copy/paste what they see, like monkeys, without asking why, or why not.This mentality is very common, but it does not sprout any PUAs, only counterfiters, the basic rule in this is to better yourself, and improve your skills thru other's experience.
And the game should not be aplied only for women, but in whole your life.
Like the saying "evry forest has it's dead trees", this comunity has plenty, and it's not because of lack of material, or to much of it, it's because guys are lazy,and go for minimal efort,"Why the fuck should i go to the gym?It's fucking hard,i'm better of smaking off...or why the fuck should i understand that? it gives me a headache..." and so on, the chalange should be inside of U,you should be the one that want to understand, and thus better yourself...not try and just read a couple of lines, canned, and deliver them, women dont want to hear a story, they want to LIVE one , u are not a story teller, u are a STORY...
Prince charming, the Dark Knight, u are an actor, u adapt your game to whatever role makes u confortable, u mold it to your personality...
But some peopple dont get that, and/or are to lazy to think, and thus we get alot of freaked out wannabes that think that what they did was good or bad, and then ask what went wrong or good...without actualy thinking it...
I challange evryone to think what they do, after they do it, and do not encourage peopple to do things just like i say them to do...
In most my posts/replys i try to make peopple understand why they should do something, i try to make them see how a woman thinks, not just act like a little puppet on strings.
And another thing i saw that happens here, when peopple tha try things, usualy "canned", get a neg feedback from a target, they blame the advisor,let it be known that u can't generaly use a tactic to wheel in a woman, u have to adapt it and improve it so it best suites u
Best of luck

I also agree and disagree.
Article one, the shit-test.
I believe this is a true test women give to judge character of a suiter. And I also consider it to be prevelant in most women. However, if you are confronted by a shit-test you have to know how to handle it, and there really arn't good canned responses for these tests, (besides Neil Strauss's comeback originally credited to Sasha Baron Coen's 'Da Ali G Show': "Respect").
The best way to respond in every situation, and this brings us to article two...
Avoid being someone you are not.
In the Pick-Up Community, we sometimes shed our old selves in hope of creating someone better, but the risk is we avoid selling our personalities, quirks, and hobbies for a few fleeting moments in bed. At least for some people this is true.
The TRUE PUA is using pick-up as a stepping-stone to better social confidence. THAT is the ideal, IMO, to pick-up. Use these strategies and convesation starters and rules to make yourself a socially commanding person.
Hope this weighs in here.
Cheers from Portland,
JONAS

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Beware the wrath of a patient man.

Very very insightful responses guys!! This is sweet!!


Alright, personally I think what an AFC calls a 'shit test' is actually called a Rejection. Only bitches who want to get rid of awkward/creepy men do these shit tests.
But what's PUA doing to still making us be creepy men trying to pass shit tests?
Why even try to confront them in the first place you know?? Why try to confront rejection? Rejection only happens to the worst of us.

So instead of focusing on passing these rejection points as awkward and creepy men, let's focus as a community on changing ourselves into the men that women actually want so that we won't have to deal with rejection via shit tests and bitch shields.

Instead of faking the attraction switches, why not ACTUALLY possess them?
Instead of using our efforts to come up with more and more routines, why not spend time on things that may be more efficient and productive?

Right now the community's method of converting AFCs into true PUAs is by letting them experiment on their own, find what 'works best for them' and them having them form their own personalities.

Well.. instead of having them have to go through all these miserable phases, why not come up with a better method of teaching them?

I blame a part of it on those of us who are here to Teach. We "teachers" need to get better at teaching so that the "learning" AFCs will be MORE successful Sooner.
We are offering the students little cheat sheets known as Canned Material which are very counter-productive when relied upon too heavily.
We should be focusing on building Foundations.

All the naturals have foundations. All successful PUAs have foundations.
So let's found out what these foundations are and teach others what they are without giving them cheat sheets.

<33

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Grape's eBook of 2009 (71 pages of useful information) http://www.scribd.com/doc/24523878/Grap ... ok-of-2009

Well posted Grape

Well stated Vision

Grape I agree with much of your last post...however...
I wouldn't call a shit-test the same as rejection. They are worlds apart in terms of the womens intention. A true shit-test is to test your character....weed out the wussy's...and depending on how you handle the shit-test, she will make a decision from there as to whether she would like to continue the interaction, OR reject you.

A REJECTION is pretty much her officially having made up her mind that you are not a potential suiter (in her mind). This as we know may happen upon approaching, or it may happen well into the interaction ie. when you screw something up.

A shit-test is something that cannot be avoided IMO, its the way society has conditioned HB's to test a males character...I mean how else would they test us to see if we have strong self worth? They cant ask us this upfront 'hey out of interest.. are you a wuss with a weak self image?', we need a 'real life' test for them to be convinced of this.

And bitch shields, as we know this is just the way society has conditioned HB's to allow them to have some peace and quite. And we have blabbering drunk AFC's to thank for this, else bitch shields would not be necessary. I personally think that bitch shields make things fun and interesting, a challenge. I enjoy psychology so it really fascinates me.

Canned lines, I believe have their place, but only for starting out to tackle something like AA, it takes your mind off WHAT to say and this allows you to focus on approaching plenty women until you're comfortable with the approach. Once you're comfortable with the approach, you can start throwing in more natural game. I prefer using 100% natural game to create attraction. I have been 'guilty' of using canned lines for opening. After opening though I let loose and flow from the heart.

And yes I completely agree that ultimately one needs to let one's true personality shine through! Be the best version of 'you' that you can be. After all this is who you really are, this is your selling point in life! Nothing is more attractive than a unique personality at it's best, and this go's for anyone and everyone on planet earth. We all have extremely attractive (and unique) personalities, its just a matter of developing and exposing them to the world. Once you have achieved this you will literally be irresistible.

I believe that the foundations that you are talking about Grape is what's called experience. What separates people in the two different categories is primarily that one person has experience and the other doesn't.

I also strongly believe that the only way to change your lifestyle which this is all about, is by pushing yourself outside comfort. If you face the trouble instead of running away from it you'll learn gradually, just like with everything else in the world. And by skipping the steps in the learning curve you lack the "foundation" that people who went through it got.

Over to shit-tests:

Shit-tests is something I've encountered in every attempt I've done of talking to a woman. Usually I get a lot as well, and not just one. However, shit-tests shouldn't affect you. This is the ultimate point of all social interactions. The most attractive quality a person can have is being positive and self-confident. I would believe that you also give out shit-tests even if you don't notice, I at least do so.

- Exerio

Tried to stay out of this thread... But guys. That is not true. First of all, they are probably not bitches. That is an unhealthy way of seeing women, they are people too. And a shittest is not a rejection, far from it. A shit test is a calibration. Measuring your value. Your strength.

I never see a shit test as a failure, that is when the game really begins because I know that she is interested enough to waste time to size me up.

Ezo