It's not important how you approach a 10 (by "10" I mean a girl who is both physically attractive and getting constant male attention). Sure with 10s there are much more anxiety issues and this prevents you from showing your best qualities. And about negging - if you don't deliver it properly a "7" can get offended or don't care about it. It's just that 10s are more socially experienced and notice little details in your delivery that other girls don't. But you can always get the reaction you're seeking - you just have to be confident in what you say and what you do.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is a cliche' made up to make unattractive people feel better.

A hot girl walks into the room and everybody sprains their neck to take a look. Hell, the girl herself sprains her neck while trying to stare at a mirror while she's walking in. Sure, some girls do what they can to maintain an "average" attitude but this is very difficult to do because they don't necessarily develop attitudes; instead, the attitudes FIND THEM.

Your average dumpy girl doesn't walk up to a stranger and go, "OK, What? . . . what do you have to say to me?" (Like the hot tall girl of the bar did to me 2 weeks ago)

Your average girl has no time to sit at the corner of the bar and eye ball guys . . .Like the nearly undetectable but clearly existing line at the condom line where guys give each other the respect of privacy, guys hover around the beautiful girls.(even if they have no intention or balls to approach them). If you draw yourself back a bit, you can almost see a line of guys wedging for position to approach.

So . . . are they different? Clearly, yes. There is no doubt that more attractive girls carry different attitudes than less attractive girls. But should you game them differently? Personally, I don't . . . but I think it has more with the way I go about communicating with girls. And regardless of whether I'm playing golf with Tiger Woods or my side-winder swinging uncle, I play to win. . . period.

^ Well said.

I agree, Jurupa. And all credit for posting this thread; I think it's a debate/discussion that needs to be had. As far as I'm aware, this is one of those grey areas in terms of PUA literature. Certain camps do offer certain perspectives, but none in my experience have been as consistent in results as in other areas.

Picking up 9.5's remains one of my sticking points; I don't have issues approaching or with confidence. It's just when I see a 7 or 8, I know instantly that the HB is probably taken care of - it's just a matter of logistics and the group. When I see a HB9.5, I really don't know how it will go. I find that usually I can win with them very fast and easily, or fail very ugly-ly. I guess this is because if you hit the right chords, the HB doesn't need you to qualify her, she knows what she wants, oftentimes.

This is 99% my fault, but also, it's worth considering that in my experience, HB9.5's have just been down right unpredictable. When I say 9.5, I mean I see one every seven nights out. A good point has been raised in this discussion, and that's that in different areas there are different attitudes, so I guess we have to consider the old context/culture paradigm.

TD speaks of the 'AFC' becoming a 'PUA' and eventually going full circle to becoming a 'natural'. In the blueprint decoded he says an AFC doesn't get many shit tests as HB's aren't attracted to him; the PUA gets them and learns how to deal with them, which increases attraction. The natural has so much core value, confidence, self-esteem and contentment, that HB's see right through this and they give no shit tests as they have no need to test you.

I thoroughly agree with this model, however I think here is the catch and the confusion when it comes to 10's; 7's and 8's will follow this model, and SO WILL 10's...it's just, 10's are SO rigidly, dogmatically, religiously and inherently programmed to defend their life through barrages of bitchiness that EVEN IF they see your core value, they mentally struggle to operate in a different manner.

It's our job then, to break this autopilot, allow them to allow THEMSELVES to be attracted to you. I guess that's it. I'm out tomorrow so I'm gonna hunt down some hot bitches and hit them with barrages of NLP-based pattern interrupts. I will let you know how it goes, if I can be arsed.

Like anything you can take it or approach it on 2 levels. You are absolutley right. One way would be to approach it like why is she so special because of her looks and this would work if you believed it strongly because she would fall into your frame.

The other way would be to approach it from she has more social value and therefore I need to approach it differently. Both methods have pros and cons.

I hate rating girls, so I'll call them hotties, and there is a VERY pronounced difference between how most of them act and how normal girls act.

If you say there isn't, most likely you're not really approaching these girls, which is fine, but irrelevant to the discussion here. I've lived in Miami for the last 6 months where there are more of these girls than anywhere else in the US and anywhere I've been besides Stockholm. We're talking girls that don't have real jobs because they're so hot they don't have to. Girls who model for elite, Maxim magazine, Playboy, Ford, etc... The things I'm going to write about do not apply to all women or even MOST women. These are the top 1% of 1%, girls you see in magazines and on TV.

So the top 10 differences

1. Their frames are WAY stronger than normal girls. That's why they appear to be more unpredictable. It's because they always attempt to maintain atleast 51% of the power in the interaction.

2. They are usually already with guys. They may not be involved with them, but you don't find many true blue hotties in two sets with another girl.

3. They don't qualify themselves nearly as easily. This is hot girl frame. They actually do believe that they are of higher value. No matter how good your inner game is, that's their frame and they are sticking to it. Plus it's reinforced by the social proof of how she is treated everywhere, especially in clubs where you're going to find larger quantities of hotties.

4. They are very well socialized, they don't blow you out, they're too polite for that. Instead they give you nothing to work with until you eject and leave.

5. You get less input. I added this in the last point, but wanted to mention it again. Get used to hotties removing interest to test for confidence. You also get less signs she's into you and usually less direct compliance. You have to believe she's attracted to you and will stay that way.

6. They like complete players or deep connection. There is no middle ground with these girls as they either go for guys who don't appreciate them at all other than as sexual beings or guys who appreciate them as more than they are.

7. They instantly decide whether or not you're a guy who gets hotties. This is why it's so important to integrate both your inner and outer game because these girls are so adept at screening guys right away. They instantly decide who is a sexual threat and who is not. A lot of guys think they're doing well with hotties because they don't understand the sorting mechanism that puts you into a friend/orbiter category right away.

8. They do get approached all the time. Guys will send over drinks as you're gaming them, guys may brazenly offer them money or gifts at bars. Get used to it.

9. They don't hook as hard sexually in the venue. ASD is going to be more prevelant with hotter girls because they have more social value and thus more to lose by being all over a guy, right away. That's not to say it never happens, just not as usual. They are also better at disqualifying sexual escalations.

10. Cold reads are the best way to hook them. Having a series of cold reads that show you understand the hot girl world is one of the best tactical ways to game them. You'll also need social connection clues, social proof, and strong push/pull game.

I'm going to be coming out with a lot of stuff on hotties from my Miami time as I spent almost all my time gaming the top tier girls and had some really great insights into their selection process.

Stay tuned.

JS

Girls don't know what they want.

I am not talking about high value physically attractive girls. I am talking about the normal 10's you see in clubs/bars/etc. Ie the ones that are not in any media, like Playboy.

Well thats completely different then... yes 2 girls of above average attractiveness in a local bar are basically the same, regardless of if ones a little cuter or not.

I thought you were talking about the kind of girl Sinn was... and I was sharing from personal experience. I have an X who models for Ford and I can tell you her and the other girls I met when I would go to some of her shows and shoots, really are a completely different variety of creature.

another excellent post raf.

most pua's would agree that on average, an hb10 is going to have more self esteem then an hb 7. before people go nuts, remember, i said ON AVERAGE.

that being said, wouldn't it be a shame if you chose to be stubborn and not use this information to your advantage? since self esteem has an effet on the perceived value of oneself, and others, you can use this information to callibrate your game.

i think sometimes when pua's get good and start pulling hb 10's they think they should always game them the same as hb7's. i think it's just an illusion that some field experience with real hb10's will clear up in no time

Oh noo. I was more talking about the every day 10 you see in public. Not the high value physically attractive girl. As those girls I totally agree you need totally different game to get as they are different creatures.