Watch your mouth you lil kid. You are just a 19yr old kid going through the entier learning process with may be a few ONS & some relationships under your belt. But you still have some growing up to do and mature.


Is that all you got from all your posts. Do you have a reading disability or have problems in processing information. Go back and read again, NO one is saying that women are the enemy or they are out to GET YOU.
Its too late when she is already trying to destroy the relationship. You have got to read signs before hand and make sure it doesnt get there.

And everytime a woman wants to break a relationship it doesn't mean that she is not happy with you. There is something as a self destructing proficy which is very interesting and has got to do with a girl's background and the relationships she has witnessed around her while growing up. I'll explain this in another thread some other time.
You are at the opposite end of the guy who doesn't take any blame for the failure of the relationship. Both of you are irrational morons who want to need to find the person responsible for the failure. A relationship fails because of two people 90% of the time.

1) Lack of communication
2) Lack of trust
3) Jealousy
4) Wrong expectations
5) One of the partner's 'self destructing proficy'

Every guy in here should stop fucking taking all the responsibility for a failed relationship. How many of you guys have dumbed a girl just because she wouldnt give you head the way that you want. Or just because she is isnt that great in bed or she doesnt know how to cook. My guess would be 0-1% of the guys. The rest of us tell them what we like and 'how we like it'

In the same way I have come across a lot of great women who would tell me how they like flowers on valentine's day or a gift once in a while, nothing bit but even a small thing to see show that you love her etc etc.. As a man you should be able to open the paths of clear communication for the girl for her to tell you how she is feeling and if she is loosing any interest in the way that you are.
This doesn't make any sense. She would try to test the boundaries to make sure that her choice is right. To make sure before she gets completely emotionally involved that she is not going out with a looser. Its a test on her sub consious level. And if you cant see or recognize that then I can put my money on you not having even one great healthy fun relationship that has lasted for a few years.
Again kid, jepordising a relation is different than testing the boundaries.
So where are they now? Or were you soo dumb that the girl broke off with you and you kept on sitting on your couch with a beer trying to analyze what the hell happened hahahaaaa....
Sure guys mess up too, but its not solely becaus ethey have the power to drive or make decisions. Most of the time they mess up because of cheating on someone or getting into an addiction such as gambling etc. How many time shave you come across guys who would tell a girl not to have a good relationship with her family !!

And love should not hurt. It should enrich your life. And your statement tells me for sure that you are someone who lets his heart out to women and expects a lot from them and ends up getting hurt. Get a Grip Fin

Watch your mouth you lil kid. You are just a 19yr old kid going through the entier learning process with may be a few ONS & some relationships under your belt. But you still have some growing up to do and mature.


Is that all you got from all your posts. Do you have a reading disability or have problems in processing information. Go back and read again, NO one is saying that women are the enemy or they are out to GET YOU.
Its too late when she is already trying to destroy the relationship. You have got to read signs before hand and make sure it doesnt get there.

And everytime a woman wants to break a relationship it doesn't mean that she is not happy with you. There is something as a self destructing proficy which is very interesting and has got to do with a girl's background and the relationships she has witnessed around her while growing up. I'll explain this in another thread some other time.
You are at the opposite end of the guy who doesn't take any blame for the failure of the relationship. Both of you are irrational morons who want to need to find the person responsible for the failure. A relationship fails because of two people 90% of the time.

1) Lack of communication
2) Lack of trust
3) Jealousy
4) Wrong expectations
5) One of the partner's 'self destructing proficy'

Every guy in here should stop fucking taking all the responsibility for a failed relationship. How many of you guys have dumbed a girl just because she wouldnt give you head the way that you want. Or just because she is isnt that great in bed or she doesnt know how to cook. My guess would be 0-1% of the guys. The rest of us tell them what we like and 'how we like it'

In the same way I have come across a lot of great women who would tell me how they like flowers on valentine's day or a gift once in a while, nothing bit but even a small thing to see show that you love her etc etc.. As a man you should be able to open the paths of clear communication for the girl for her to tell you how she is feeling and if she is loosing any interest in the way that you are.
This doesn't make any sense. She would try to test the boundaries to make sure that her choice is right. To make sure before she gets completely emotionally involved that she is not going out with a looser. Its a test on her sub consious level. And if you cant see or recognize that then I can put my money on you not having even one great healthy fun relationship that has lasted for a few years.
Again kid, jepordising a relation is different than testing the boundaries.
So where are they now? Or were you soo dumb that the girl broke off with you and you kept on sitting on your couch with a beer trying to analyze what the hell happened hahahaaaa....
Sure guys mess up too, but its not solely becaus ethey have the power to drive or make decisions. Most of the time they mess up because of cheating on someone or getting into an addiction such as gambling etc. How many time shave you come across guys who would tell a girl not to have a good relationship with her family !!

And love should not hurt. It should enrich your life. And your statement tells me for sure that you are someone who lets his heart out to women and expects a lot from them and ends up getting hurt. Get a Grip Fin

Watch your mouth you lil kid. You are just a 19yr old kid going through the entier learning process with may be a few ONS & some relationships under your belt. But you still have some growing up to do and mature.


Is that all you got from all your posts. Do you have a reading disability or have problems in processing information. Go back and read again, NO one is saying that women are the enemy or they are out to GET YOU.
Its too late when she is already trying to destroy the relationship. You have got to read signs before hand and make sure it doesnt get there.

And everytime a woman wants to break a relationship it doesn't mean that she is not happy with you. There is something as a self destructing proficy which is very interesting and has got to do with a girl's background and the relationships she has witnessed around her while growing up. I'll explain this in another thread some other time.
You are at the opposite end of the guy who doesn't take any blame for the failure of the relationship. Both of you are irrational morons who want to need to find the person responsible for the failure. A relationship fails because of two people 90% of the time.

1) Lack of communication
2) Lack of trust
3) Jealousy
4) Wrong expectations
5) One of the partner's 'self destructing proficy'

Every guy in here should stop fucking taking all the responsibility for a failed relationship. How many of you guys have dumbed a girl just because she wouldnt give you head the way that you want. Or just because she is isnt that great in bed or she doesnt know how to cook. My guess would be 0-1% of the guys. The rest of us tell them what we like and 'how we like it'

In the same way I have come across a lot of great women who would tell me how they like flowers on valentine's day or a gift once in a while, nothing bit but even a small thing to see show that you love her etc etc.. As a man you should be able to open the paths of clear communication for the girl for her to tell you how she is feeling and if she is loosing any interest in the way that you are.
This doesn't make any sense. She would try to test the boundaries to make sure that her choice is right. To make sure before she gets completely emotionally involved that she is not going out with a looser. Its a test on her sub consious level. And if you cant see or recognize that then I can put my money on you not having even one great healthy fun relationship that has lasted for a few years.
Again kid, jepordising a relation is different than testing the boundaries.
So where are they now? Or were you soo dumb that the girl broke off with you and you kept on sitting on your couch with a beer trying to analyze what the hell happened hahahaaaa....
Sure guys mess up too, but its not solely becaus ethey have the power to drive or make decisions. Most of the time they mess up because of cheating on someone or getting into an addiction such as gambling etc. How many time shave you come across guys who would tell a girl not to have a good relationship with her family !!

And love should not hurt. It should enrich your life. And your statement tells me for sure that you are someone who lets his heart out to women and expects a lot from them and ends up getting hurt. Get a Grip Fin

1. Actions speak louder than words;

You dislike my choice of tone when critiquing the nature of your beliefs.

You then respond with ad-hominem and an condesending tone. :S

Now if you look over your post, most of your remarks aren't related to the topic at hand which leads me to believe that that you have been offended on the grounds of me using that tonality with you specefically rather than just the use of that tonality in general, which you tried to imply. As your post reads like a back lash, rather than an attempted to show me "a better way".

2. No one says that women are the enemy, but the belief that women cannot be entrusted with power comes from two source attitudes:

1. Women are incompetent when it comes to responsibility.

2. Women will for some mysterious reason attempt to abuse power when given it.

Both these attitudes to me indicate a hostility towards women when concerning allowing thm a major role in your intimate life.

3. Do you perhaps mean self fullfilling policy, and your comment about parents and observing relaitonships, does that not come under bowlby's internal working model?

And no a break in the relationship does not mean she is unhappy with you, it can mean that, but other possible explanations may be that she wants to explore other avenues and romantic choices, or maybe she feels that she needs time to re-evaluate where she is in life, and doesn't want any other influences present.

4. Actually no I don't take ALL the responsibility, where did that one come from?

Blaming failed relationships on the fatc that you let your power slip, is differring all problems to her, and that your fault wasn't a problem in itself.

5. Hang on we're talking about relationships yes?

Why are you describing what seems to be a shit test.

If your gf is giving you shit tests...... I shouldn't need to say much more.

6. Define testing the boundries, becuase I define testing the boundries as dong stuff the other person will not like, for the sake that they do not like it.

7. 5/6 of them are still together.... why did you associate me in their?

8. Girls don't mess up solely becuase they are given power.

9. Love shouldn't hurt but unfortunatly it's more complex than that, if you want to have a good relationship you have to go through the thick AND the thin. Sometimes you have to say goodbye, even when you both want it to continue, the feelings of love and emotional attatchment when severed or tested to strain us. Thats part of having an emotional attatchment, in fact that is how psychologist actually tend to define emoitonal attatchments.

No one said love wouldn't enrich your life :S

"And I find your statement of women shouldn't have power" - to tell me that you have ahd a bad relationship and are paranoid that it will happen again, so are now obsessing over how women will fuck you up if you don't "keep an eye on them".

You should be able to relax in a good relationship. It's maintenance should be one of enjoyment. Yeah at times it'll get pissy, but that's the nature of things, outside of that try and channel your focus in a more altruistic way towards pleasing your partner, rather than keeping scores on who has "TEH P0WERZ".

I think this is the source of our misunderstanding. Nobody is saying women can't be entrusted with power. We are saying that they don't want to. Again I'm generelizing here so don't come back with an example of a girl you know who liked keeping the power and making all the decision and would get pissed off when her boyfriend would initiate things. This is a generalisation that some mPUA have made and that I somewhat agree with given the women I've talk about this to and my personal relationship experiences. When they make the calls, initiate things all the time (again here the important thing might be 'all the time', I'm not saying they don't like to be initiating things on their own) or take the lead in the relationship, they loose attraction. Do they want to loose the attraction? Do they want to screw up the relation ship? Hell no. They were attracted to you because of your strong frame of reality, because of you dominant alpha personality. They like to know it's still there.

Let's make a little analogy here. Let's say you buy a satin shirt because you like how the fabric feels like. Are you going to be thinking 'alright I like how this satin feels so I'll just fold it nicely, but it in a box in my closet and never touch it again'? No of course not. You'll wear it once in a while maybe even enjoy the feeling of it when you are folding your clothes.

That's what the women is doing when she is 'testing the boundaries'. She doesn't want to screw up the relationship. She wants to know you are still the dominant, alpha... that you can still stand up for her.

Again feel free to disagree.
Well how do you normaly respond to people that call you a cunt?

I was not arguing against his use of ad-hominem- merely highlighting the hypocrisy inherint in implying that someone is offensive and immature, then proceeding to recipotate in an even more immature and offensive manner than the origonal "offender".

The idea that women do not want power* (and IMO to assume that their is an internal power struggle within the relationship is flawed premis to start with in a healthy relationship.) or will abuse power becuase of thier nature, or indeed are not suppossed to have power in the relationship stems from an older age.

The 1950's, the nuclear family, where the man dominates and the woman follows, the male is the top man. This fell apart, really fast!

Why?

1. It couldn't cope with the actual reality of relationships in contemporary society, the model of man holds power and woman listens; just failed to keep up with diverse possibilities faced by people in the 20th Centuary.

2. The system was REALLY fucking old, the 1950's nuclear family type ideals drew their relationship idea's from chrisitian values, and the relationship idea's of christianity have not changed since their emergence in roughly 100Ad when the NT was formed or even older if we consider the fatc that the christian bible derives a lot of it's laws from the older judaic tradition.

Now those idea's on relationships were drawn up at a time and in a place of extreme oppression towards women, this was back when women could not hold important titles or lead or have much say in anything.

Think middle eastern burhka's.

So needless to say those traditional values fell apart when applied in a setting where women had more independance and free will.

Now even though a large portion of the world is and has been christian, a large portion of europien marriages did NOT follow those ideals, simply because of living conditions, work conditions and social structure making it impractical.

Infact in Britain, (or in scotland at least) their is a culture of joking about women and how they tend to hold sway over their partners.

So you understand that I am at the very least, skeptical that (IMO) anyone holds power in a healthy relationship.

-------------------------------------------------------

Maybe I am just being put of by the word power. I don't like to see a relationship dynamic as the resultant equillibrium established when to people attempt to gain control of one another.

Healthy relationships should be a more positive dynamic, involving people pleasing each other for altruisms sake, and for their partners sake.

I find if someone is doing all the "giving" then generally that relationship isn't healthy, but sometimes that is just the way the dynamic works.

In some relationships their will be a leader character, in a healthy relationship (we'll use male terms for eaisiness's sake) the leading character is a leader, a prince charming, a hero who can be relied on, someone to look to.

In a bad relationship, one in which the occupants are concerned with "power", the lead character is more like a corrupt sherrif or jail keeper.

It's a matter of emphasis, the leader has influence, becuase he is a leader.

Where as if the person is concerned with power, they try to gain influence, so that they can become the leader.

It's a subtle shift, but it is important when regarding topics like "leadership".

If you are to take a leading role, it has to be something organic, something that evolves out of the relationship dynamic becuase thats how you two interact, rather than something that is conciously worked toward.

It also has to be genuine, if you are the leader, you should be the leader becuase it happened to be the role you took up in the process of trying to please your partner and have a happy relationship. Rather than a role that you have taken in order to ensure your cookie cutter chosen relationship dynamic is implemented, in which case you are not her leader, you are her jail warden.

Does that kind of make sense, I do see that leaders do emerge in relationships, (and sometimes that role switches depending on the situation), but I don't see it as a matter of power, or a must have quality for a good relationship or even something gender specefic.

Looking forward to your responce

Funny you hsould bring that up. Your #1 is somewhat close to the mark while your #2 is off. Again, I think it would be oversimplifying to think this is due to a hand few of reasons, but again this fits perfectly well with the 'power' struggle model as well.

Women before WW2 rarely led an active role in society (except housewife and such) during the war, men were at war so they needed people to work. The women where asked to work.



Does that ring a bell?

Women then got the taste of independance. They got more active roles that were denied to them since ... well you said it 100AD. Now that they felt the thrill of what they could accomplish they decided that men and women should be equal and the nuclear family model fell. Feminism was born.

Yeah, I definetly think it might just be the word "power" that has some strong NLP anchor on you ;P

Yes, relationships should be more of a ballanced dynamic. But you have to make sure you don't change in her eyes. How did you make her feel attraction in the first place? By being a wussbag? No, by being an alpha male (well I don't know your pick-up style, but it tends to revolve around that). Make sure you stay that way or something will go missing. Ever heard that before? "He was great at first but then things change and I just don't feel it anymore".
Never said they will abuse power. Never said they are not supposed to have powre either (btw how do you define power). Again, I'll bring my satin shirt evemple again. How do you know if it's still soft: You feel it. You don't abuse it. You don't go caveman on it. You don't pull on the fabric until it tears. You fell it. If one day, you find that it's not soft anymore, what do you do?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_l4z_uk_P7MU/S ... 400/02.jpg

^^^

The conditions which were just pre-womens sufferage, were not typical of european history, economically, with wages so low and the industries the way they were, women were often required to work just as much as the men.

It was only with capitalism that suddenly a household slowly found it could start supporting itself with one person, thus the christian value of man dictates and woman obeys.

Now this value was within society, but only publically, their is little to show that it was regurly applied and seen as the norm.

Public ideals and their relaity can be miles apart in history.

Q.E.D. 18th Centuary Venice, it's rather ironic that a masqeurade is a good demonstration of Venitian society was like, externally values of chastity were generally upheld, along with chrisitna attitudes to sex, but behind closed doors, homosexuality and prostitution was rife, Venice in it's age as well as being largely publicaly religious was also a City which pushed forward alot of sexual experimentation with it's want to try new extreme's.... the infamous Venetian Aristocratic Orgies spring to mind. Everyone was involved in it.

"A Venetian Nun, is as the name suggests, a Venetian first, and a Nun second." - Old Venetian Joke/Saying.

This was as oppossed to Parisian society, which spoke quite openly about it's role in the sexual exploration of the 18th Centuary.

But this is all aside, values that were suppose to be implemented, or that were supported by laws or major institutions are not neccessarily the values used.

The chrisitan relationship dynamic is the same.

And even if we were to agree that women did NOT hold power, it swings the balance now, women do hold independance, an ability to ask for divorce, an ability to get a divorce, protection from abusive partners, a society which supports single women on their own.

And this changes certain social factors when considering relationships and how they now operate, sure nothing biological has changed, by society and the attitudes and psychology behind it has.

"Women on top"- Nancy Fridays, great collection of sexual fantasies written by women, but it is especially pertenant to this debate as the book deals with how female sexuality has changed with the advent of feminism and a more independant society for women.

i did not say that you need to change, but surely if you get along together is no need to be watching your back. The thread title smacks of having paranoia towards your spouse.

Now you shoulnd't change who you are when dating women as oppossed to being at home, or ofcourse, she will date you, you will get a relationship, she will find out your not the guy she dated, and dump you.

But as relationships go on they change and evolve, the dynamic that you have with someone on your first date, may very well be different to that, which you have with that same person a year down the line, people evolve and so do relationships. It's just life, it's up to us to nurture that relationship in a way that is best, but to try and stop it growing or changing at all is looking for disaster.

You will change in the relationship, why, because it's good for you, that you grow, that you learn, it's just making sure that you develop in a way that is good.

I dislike power, becuase power equates doing something when the other person doesn't want you to, but you do it, because you have the power. A relationship isn't built on power but on conection, as relationships go on, you become more and more vulnerable to that person , as you grow intimate with them. It's nothing to do with power, because power shouldn't really come into it.

And check the title of the thread, but if you disagree with the threads title, then I side with you

You need stop confusing change with "something bad". An ability to change in itself is attractive because it shows that you are an alive and dynamic organic being, people can grow in relationships, become more sensitive, more confident, more understanding, more forgiving, less jaded.

A relationship isn't a fixed thing; it's an ongoing, moving, changing, living breathing, fucking, eating, running, jumping, snogging, growing, evolving, playing, diving, laughing, crying, sleeping, adventouring thing.

Agreed, but in traditional 'women' fields. There was no cop women. No women working in industries. No women business owners (well I'm generalizing here, there was a few, but a very few and with stories behind them). The change was not women starting to work per say, but rather women accessing moer active roles.
Well that's not very surprising at all. It's the bassis of Push/Pull. Deny something and people will want it more. Robert Green in his book Art of Seduction actually goes into a great deal of detail on this period.

I agree it is ironic, the church by denying open sexuality to people only increased people's desire.
Agreed, and this is all for the best.

Interesting. I might add it on my 'to read' list.

Sure agreed. But then we are swaing away from attraction and moving towards love. Love has a completly diferent dynamic then attraction. If you want "love" advice, don't come to the PUA comunity (well the part about becoming a better self is always good).

I disagree with that entirely. I don't want to repeate myself on this too much too, but this is way oversimplifying.
That's more like it. Power is the ability to do. I'm not saying again that women shoudn't have the ability to do. I would say that women want the man to have the power to do. More then her? Perhaps. It's going to depend on the women. Most women I've met. Yes, they do or did.

I agree that the "and they will abuse it" might be off with the discussion we are having. Would you agree to a thread title Give power to the women and the attraction will be lost?

It is good if you change based on your beliefs. It's bad if you are changing for any other reasons.


I'm debating this with a "passion" because this was maybe one of the biggest eye opener for me when I started to read the 'PUA' material. I could reverse engineer 2 of my past relationships that ended up with her dumping me to this. It always puzzled me. Both after 6-8 months. Both of them said something similar to this "I don't know why, but there is just something missing. We seem perfect for each other, but there just seems to be something wrong. It must be something with me because you have all the qualities I look for in a guy, but something is not how it should."

Both relation was with a girl that I could connect on so many levels. We had similar interests, similar sense of humor, she was good looking, she thought I was good looking. The sex was good. The trust was there. But something was missing. During those 2 relations I never (almost never) led. She would ask me what restaurant I wanted to go to. I would answer "Whatever you like. It's not so important to me, just pick one.". Etc. The times I did take the lead, where the besty moments of the relation. I would take her on a impromptu road trip and she loved it. Etc. I wasn't keen enough to realize this when it happened or after we broke up for that matter. I did after reading some of the theories I read in David DeAngelo's material (and other PUAs).

We need to grab a beer one of these days and chat about this.

Cheers!

1. And, women may not have had much official power such as employers, but then again, as with the case with feudalism neither did many men But the history is that way, their is little to suggest that the chirstian value of man has final say was as widely implemented as would be thought.

2. Venice was nothing to do with push-pull, it wasn;t a case of the laws failing to control, rather no one including those enforcers wanting to enforce them. Casanova himself (who although a hero of mine, his name has been distorted into some sort of "Player" icon, he is infact a far more historically significant person) was trained to be a priest and pursued that career right up till his early twenties, along with many of his friends who he writes of encounterin who were priests. Venietion law wasn't their to control societies norms, but rather keep the oligarchy in place.

It was a masquerade in that much of the appearance was false, but it was nowingly false, and few people if any had any problems or tried to deny the liberties of the time.

3. Love is not that much of a seperate topic, it really is just a mix of attraction and emotional connection.

Not many on here but their are a couple of guru's who have covered that topic, and we do have a relationship section in this forum PU has become rather diverse since the third gen PU scene.

4. It is oversimplifying but that's the general connotations, that you can do whatever the fuck you want. It's a case of having control and power over someone in order to manipulate.

5. Surprisingly your either attractive or you are not, real attractiveness is hard to lose, buying temperature can be lost however. I would agree to refuse to take the lead and the realtionship may fail.

But thats not so much to do with attraction as it is with the working dynamic.

6. See your problem was fuck all to do with attraction, rather the dynamic didn't work out, she wanted you to lead the relationship in order to give emotional stimulation, which although can be a segment of attractiveness is often a seperate matter.

7. I more of a wine and spirits person, but maybe we'll meet on that one

PM me your msn details and maybe we can continue this type of discussion at more length?

I like the discussion we have had so far in this thread and am back after a busy week at work and social commitments. Let me get to the constructive discussion first.
Disagree Thats not how power is defined. Power to me is a constructive driving force which is nothing more than say LEADING in all respects. Now say for example, you and your GF/wife go to buy a new rug for your living room. She gets in the store, you both walk around, look at stuff, she looks at a few rugs, you give your opinion, she chooses one which she thinks goes with the furniture and you too like that one, you pay for the rug and you both walk out.

In the above case, you let her choose the rug according to her taste and that is great. Is that loosing of power-NO. That is doing things together in a relationship which is the most exciting part !! But in the same example, imagine you come back from work one evening and find a $1600 rug in your living room and when you ask her she tells you that she went to the store and bought it in cash because she thinks looks good. Now, she makes decisions for both of you, handles the finances the way she wants without consulting/discussing with you and assume/wants you to suck it up and live with it- This is loss of Power to me. The rug is no big of a deal but when she starts making decisions on things that matter to you like your finances that involves you without consulting you is something that doesnt go pretty well with me.When she decides that you should not be with 'that' friend of yours or 'that' relative of yours thats when you are loosing your power You have to lead as a man and cannot be driven in all directions, phycially, mentally, financially, emotionally by a woman. Period.
Agreed. The first thing that I agree with you on Relationships should be fun, they should help you evolve and discover yourself and hence change is good. There is nothing wrong in changing but changing into a wussbag is not acceptable and I'm sure you arent suggesting that.

Nuclear Families.

Your explanation about nuclear families families failing because they suppressed women, and women had desires, and the burkha example etc.. is flaued.

Firstly, if you study the law of middle eastern culture you would see that the Mughal Emperors had a lot of respect for women and a burkha is no ways to suppress women but its there because you dont want a stranger to have "eyes" for your wife etc.. Women in very high posts too wear burkhas, thus burkhas have nothing to do with a woman's independence.

So now to the conv. of nuclear families failing. Well earlier it wasn't a global world and men around the world had to leave their cities, towns, and even countries in search of a life and a livelihood. Under these circumstances women felt the need to take care of the house and tough up to do some of the 'man's' job. Also, insearch of a better life for kids and the entier family both men and women started working to earn more money and make ends meet. Now if a woman works and earns is that loosing of power- NO If she buys a new car for herself from her own money, is that loosing of power- NO. That is independence, which is good. But if she uses her money to get your house, in which you live too, painted without even caring to tell you whats on her mind- is she leading -YES. Is there a power shift- YES.

I have no problem with the word POWER or the title of this thread, because I believe that unless you communicate/convey to a woman that you have a BACKBONE, cannot be pushed around, or lead which ever way she wants you to She will test your boundaries and unknowingly it will lead to a point where the man would feel that the power is abused and the woman starts loosing attraction for the man because she is the one who is leading ALL THE TIME.

When I think of women who say that they want power, in my head I interpret as they wanting to have a 'say' in the relationship, they want to be heard and their opinion be considered which is great and thats how relationship should be. Women should be taken into consideration when you make important decisions that involves the two of you, women love that. BUT IF SHE IS THE ONE LEADING AND MAKING DECISIONS FOR THE TWO OF YOU THAN YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.


If you think that your GF has never tested your boundaries than you are living in a fantasy land and you prolly dont even recognize it when it happens. There is nothing much that I can say in that case.
Haha.. I have read a few of your other posts and you always come up with very strong opinion and it seems you see things in just black & white. You strongly word it and refuse to accept any one elses arguments or thoughts. And hence I just did what Kasabi had done in one of the posts. That is to word my argument strongly and push you to the corner to see whether you really are that hard ass, tough guy that you potray to be or you are just ... AnD when I did that you went defensive and from calling all of us CUNTS you started conveying your thought in a more respectable manner, which is good.

Fin, honestly think, and this is truely a constructive feedback, most of what you say or your knowledge is very BOOKISH. From reading your other posts and this one I think your arguments are rooted in some or the other books that you must have read and you havent yet explored the different relationship dynamics in real life which is not always in black & white. .... Think about it It would help you to talk to people about their relationships, the ones that lasts and even theones that fail, talk to people on this forum and have more relationships just to understand the dynamics. You would see that everything is not in black & white.

1. I think we are working on different definitions of power, I see power as seperate to leading, people follow leaders, becuase the leaders know what is best, people follow those with power, becuase their is no choice.

It's case of being the guy who demands his girlfriends attention, and being the guy who gets his girlfriends attention.

I don't think a loss of power means you can be pushed around, I'm tempted to say that if you are being pushed around by your partner, then she doesn't care to much for you.

Unless she is just being playful or attempting to garner attention.

2. My reference to the burhka was what kind of attitudes the origional christian values stemmed from, the problem with the nuclear family, was too fixed it was unable to cope with the multiple scenarios that faced many couples.

3. No partners do test my boundries, but I don't expect it from them later on in the relationship, in the ealry phases when you are establishing a dynamic and the relationship has yet to become the norm, people are going to explore how their partner thinks and feels.

4. Pretty much, I'm not much of a hard man when I teach, I lost my rag with what I felt was blatant mysoginy, over time I have spotted how aggressiveness tends to make people prickle up.

Now I was trying to teach you something which I felt was important for you to learn, now upon the initial post, you worked yourself up into a storm, a position from which you would not learn anything, it was clear that you weren't attacking my argument but rather attacking me as a person, indicating that you weren't really attacking my argument, but rather you were emotionally hurt and in a place where you wouldn't want to listen.

So I decided to word the opening of my post to step the heat down, where we could learn. You could either meet me where I led you or continue with ramblin and snarky comments and look like a prick.

I've seen alot of posters who have tried, me included to teach via flaming, but you rarely see the person on the recieving end learning anything new, they just spew back their own anger.

5. I've been thier, and you are thier now, it's easy to assume that someone who disagree's with you is either niave, blind, or lying about what they "know".

I'm however uncertain of where you are drawing this conclusion that I see things as black and white, if anything my critisism of pop culture is that they have simplified idea's of romance, sex and love so that it is hard for us to progress sexually.