Its a controversial title and would raise a lot of eyebrows but I still wanted to share my thoughts, observations, and initiate a discussion.

Over the years I have seen and witnessed this first hand where the men have given the woman all the powers in a relationship but she has instead sunk the ship and destroyed a healthy relation. I'm going to site some examples to illustrate what I mean:

1) When we were in college I had a friend of mine. Great guy, straight As, one of the best athletes in college, in short a total star. He was what we'd call had everything going for him. And then, the cutiest girl at the time took interest in him. She flirted and he fell for it. They both went out for over a month and he started caring a lot for her (he was in his teens at the time hence believed that he had met his girl).

After summer vacations the girl started distancing herself for no reason and he didnt know what was going on. She broke off with him and he tried to convince her not to. Anyways, after 2 weeks he went on with his life and right when things were getting better she came back crying to him. He refused to take her back but she eventually convinced him.

Again, when he started caring for her and things were getting normal she broke off with him and this time for no reason. (she told him that she didnt want to give him a reason). he went on with his life and when she saw that he wasnt following her she came back again. This went on for 4 times and everytime he would walk away she would come crying. This guy became the laughing stock of the school. He really cared for the girl. He tried everything from letting her make decisions in the relationship to dating her exclusively but she knew she had the power over the most popular guy and she abused it.

Over the years I have heard similar stories over and over again happenening to a number of guys.

2) I know a man(Adam) who is in his 60s now, broke and in huge debts. But one time this man was a star, a son of a very renouned and rich business man, stylish, sauve, the life of a party and a man with a great heart who loved his family. He got married to a girl(Suzzain) who didnt come from such a well to do family. Suzzain is a sweet talker and a social gossiper (someone who keeps gossiping abouot other people, I just made that word). Adam is was very kind and had been brought up by 'his mother' and Suzzain wore the pants in the relationship. She eventually persuaded him to distance himself from his family and buy a house in another city. The greed for money made him lose his job and remain jobless for 25 years of his life. Every penny he ever had he ended up satisfying the needs of his cranky wife whom he could not say no to. She has spoiled his relation with all of his family and friends, made him take huge debts and basically ruined his life.

3) A guy I know got married to his GF who likes to make decisions in the relationship, which is fine. At first he thought of her as independent but a few years into his marriage he found that she was controlling. She wanted to know where was he spending his money even though it was his hard earned money. She would decide where they would go for vacations, the car they would buy etc etc.. And if he didnt let her make some decisions she would shed tears telling him that he didnt love her anymore.. She controlled him with sex and emotions. Anyways, he let her be happy while he worked 10-12 hours a day to provide for the family. HE did everything he could to keep her happy, from vacations to dinners to every thing. However, the ocuple is finally heading towards divorce. Her reason : I just dont feel it anymore for him.

There are numerous stories like these that I have heard over and over again. The only difference is that the characters keep changing but the story remains the same. I wonder sometimes whether women have ever been wired to take control in a relationship. Whether there women have the ability to ever lead and make decisions in a relationship. If not then all you men out there should never give your power away in a relation. Remember , respect her love love not dont let her take control of your life.


I want to encourage constructive discussion and hence would like you to share your thoughts

New topic, give the man the power in the relationship and he will destroy it.


Plenty of stories supporting the above claim, fortunatly this isn't the 50's, relationships rarely have a power source based in one person and it's arguable that, that situation has stayed the same for a large part of humanities history.

i'd argue that even in the 50's women could destroy relationships just like they do today. They still control the vast majority of men with their vaginal powers.

My story is closest to the first one marc shared. Only she cheated on my every time, then came crawling back...crying. I was a moron.

It's nothing to do with women destroying relationships, it's everything to do with this mysoginistic idea that if women have power they will fuck everything up.

Women can't think without feeling; they are more in touch with their emotions than we can ever realize. They may try to justify their actions and feelings logically but they don't understand themselves in a logical sense.

Few men actually internalize this, or are even aware of this major difference in the way males and females think vs. feel. Consequentially men in relationships will let themselves get sucked into a womans emotional shitstorms without knowing it.

In a strong and healthy relationship the man stands his ground as the leader and a backbone of emotional stability for her to come back to. The more feminine a woman is the less she can clearly express herself to a man and is unable to lead. On the other hand, more feminine less masculine guys will click well with more of a dominant, rational type, who now takes on the masculine role in the relationship.

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I maintain that as bullshit.

Emotion is not opposite to logic,although ARE emotional creatures it is an extreme to assume that women are illogical or do not understand themselves on a logical level.

It's also socially and historically wrong to assume relationships fail when the woman has control.

Thier is no real difference in how men and women think, their is a shift of emphasis in possible tempermants etc, but it's not a difference as we would see it normally.

Marc, have you heard David DeAngelo's theory about dog breading? It closely relates to what you are talking about here. Testing and controling is done at a subconscious level to see how much you can get away with. If you get away with anything you keep on pushing until you get everything. Once you got everything the interest is lost. Women are comfortable when they can feel barriers around them. It makes them feel secure. Of course the way to know the barriers are there, is to test them.

Not necessarly 100% accurate, but I like it.

Sorry to hear tht chevylover. Isnt it suprising that the same thing has happened to guys all over and everytime the way they come back to you is by CRYING. The story is the same every single time. It makes me think whether this is any kind of a test that women throws at you , just to see whether she made the right decision or not or whether you ever wanted her or not or may be and just may be she needs a validation one last time that she is good and can have any guy. I dont know the answer but something here intrigues me.
Who Said women are illogical. But when put understress or given a situation to react to the EMOTIONAL side of a woman overpowers the Logical side. Now I haven't read as many biological evolutionary books as some of the other guys but I'm speaking from my experience and observation.

For your social and historical stats argument, well yes there are very many examples and a lot from the guys in here too where relationships have gone down when the guys gave the girl the power. Think about it, if you were to drive a relationship, a company, or your own finances would you want to be driven by someone who is emotional or some one who is passionate & LOGICAL.

You are suprisingly wrong on the last point. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HOW MEN & WOMEN think. Put both of them in a similar situation and you would see that they approach & internalizeit differently.

TheJ, I haven't heard of the dog breading theory but it sounds interesting. Could you kindly elaborate on the part above in bold letters. That sounds interesting.
I dont know if these are your orginal ideas or from the book. But I agree to every bit said here. This makes complete sense and I absolutly agree to it.

Sure, my pleasure. Again, I don't want to take credit for this but rather most of it is from David DeAngelo. One of the exercise I did when I was starting to learn about PUA was actully a suggesting from DavidD. He said in his DYD series I believe, that you should ask women, the type of women you would love to be with, what do they find attractive in a man. What are they looking for and aim to be that man. One of the most common response I got was in the lines of 'Someone confident, somewone who can take the lead...' (looks came down the look somewhere but really down there..). Again DavidD hinted that answers were going to be around there. He goes into detail as to why this is and I'll try to sumerize as much as I can. Basaically it's all down there in the chain of evolution. A woman is very vulnerable compared to a man. She needs the man to be able to stand up for her, whether it's againts a lion or another man. How do they do this? Well they test. In the old days the stonger man was easy to see. Bigger, stronger, etc. Nowadays things evolved and big muscles are not what marks a strong man but rather a strong leader alpha personality. Since she can't go up to a guy and ask 'hey are you an alpha man that could keep me secure' and get a straight answer, she tests. Even after a while in a relation, to see if he is still an alpha leader, she will test him. To see if he will be pushed around or see if he has barriers and can bring a strong frame to the relationship. Women still find this attractive and look for that in a man. Mind you, she doesn't want him to fail that test and these test can be subconcious. But once the barriers start expanding, she will test more, hopping to hit that wall again. Sadly it rarely works that way and the women will lose interest.

Let's give a basic example. Let's say you go out every Fridays with your buddies. This is important for you and you let your new GF know. One day she asks you to stay around on Fridays. Let's say you refuse. You just created a barrier. She knows it's there and might complain on the spot, but she will also respect you for having your frame. Let's say 2 months later she asks you again and you comply. You have now just lost a bit of power to her. She will then assume your rule is broken once and thus can be broken again. That barrier is gone. It's the start of the shift of power.

DavidD makes the link with dog training. A dog sees his master as the Alpha of the clan (you and him being the clan). This is the natural structure of dog packs. You set up rules as the alpha (don't go on the couch, don't chew the remote.... ). The dog will test these and if you don't reprimend him (especialy early) when he breaks the rule, he will start to feel alpha and start to push you around more. When he no longer sees you as alpha, you are no longer someone to look up to and try to 'please' but rather a purveoy kind to his alpha behavior. Same basic parallel.

Again, this is a summary of some of his views. It's very generalised also, but it does the trick as to understand power loss vs attraction. He also then goes into a great deal about explaining that a perfect relationship is not necessarly the guy completely dominating the relationship but rather a mutual understanding of the roles and a shared responsability of the 'power'.

Very interesting indeed!

PS: sorry for the long post :P

I have never given women the power in the early part of the relationship where she hasn't abused it. However I find that the longer you know them the more it becomes better to give some of your power away. This actually keeps you in the relationship.

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Brilliantly explained. Thank a lot. I hadn't earlier thought much about the expanding of the boundaries.

So say from your example, one Friday you stay back at home=boundaries expanded. But the next Friday you still go out even if she wants you to stay back. What do you or anyone else think of that. Does that reinforces the boundaries to the girl.

I like your post and where this discussion is going. Because now we are talking about tests and dynamics After you have gone out with the girl once or twice.
Thts right. Its not about power sharing then. You still protect, lead and make decisions but at this point you make decisions taking her into consideration or discussing with her and seeing that she is alright with it. You've already established that you have a mind of your own and have earned her trust and credibility of leading and have conveyed that you would not be pushed around and give into her tantrums hence a consultation is not loosing of power once you are in a relationship. I agree with you.

The way I see it, you might be able to keep the barrier there, still affirm your Alpha status if you feel and make her know that staying on that friday was your choice as well. Let's say your girl invites you to a party you want to go it would be ok to go because you want to. If you go because she wants to, I don't think it will work. Then if it was your choice, you can resume your buddy night the next friday withough having her feel less secure.

If you follow the 'I won't give in' line too hard it may only make you come across like a jackass too, but your time and your lifestyle is valuable, that's why she is around right? So why change it? Make her fit in your lifet, don't fit in hers.

Oh for fucks sake, listen you terrified quivering bunch of cunts.

Women are not out to get you, if you are that paranoid of women that you think they will fuck everything up whenever they get the chance or that they are testing your boundries, which you have to keep on enforcing, you have problems.

If she is fucking with the relationship, or trying to mess with you...... then take some goddam responsibility here, theirs probably a good chance that she is just not happy with you.

Hell if my gf had she cheated on me, I wouldn't go "well that's her pushing boundries, I should of been more strict with her"

I would more likely be wondering, "ok, why did she feel the need to cheat in the first place?"

If thier has been just one thing that I have learnt from the community with regards to relationships, it is thus...

The strength of a relationship is not defined by......

Marital status.
Time spent in relationship.
Time spent with partner.
Relationship rules.

It is defined by this....

Feelings.

You can power struggle all you like to stop her from "pushing boundries" but at the end of the day, she is trying to push boundries and that should tell you one thing, the relationship is failing.

I fsomeone feels content, proud, happy with their partner, they are not going to jepordise that.

Granted everyone has rules within their life, I don't take narcotics, I would not expect anyone to ask me to do anything like that. And nobody would. If it is an exclusive relationship I expect people not to cheat on me, and if the relationship is going well they will respect this.

Here's the reality, women aren't like dogs that you train, or infants that you strap boundries round.

Thier are natural patterns and rules to every relationship, but these should not ever need to be enforced, becuase if they are being broken, then their is something wrong with the relationship.

People breaking relationship rules is an effect, not a cause of a relationship breakdown.


I'm going to toss these two things in, and you can dismiss them as "not real" if you want, but frankly with time you will encounter these situations and it will lead to your enlightenment anyway.

I have met a good few relationships where the power-base was clearly with the female. Non of them had any real problems that the "conventional" relationship would have.

I have met plenty of relationships, where the guy fucked up the relationship; the ugly truth is that love hurts.

Things don't work out as often as most people would like, now you have a choice, you can winging beta's and start throwing blame around, talking about how the other parties aren't fit to run a relationship becuase they are the cause of all your terrible problems.

Or you can man up, and keep going.

Oh for fucks sake, listen you terrified quivering bunch of cunts.

Women are not out to get you, if you are that paranoid of women that you think they will fuck everything up whenever they get the chance or that they are testing your boundries, which you have to keep on enforcing, you have problems.

If she is fucking with the relationship, or trying to mess with you...... then take some goddam responsibility here, theirs probably a good chance that she is just not happy with you.

Hell if my gf had she cheated on me, I wouldn't go "well that's her pushing boundries, I should of been more strict with her"

I would more likely be wondering, "ok, why did she feel the need to cheat in the first place?"

If thier has been just one thing that I have learnt from the community with regards to relationships, it is thus...

The strength of a relationship is not defined by......

Marital status.
Time spent in relationship.
Time spent with partner.
Relationship rules.

It is defined by this....

Feelings.

You can power struggle all you like to stop her from "pushing boundries" but at the end of the day, she is trying to push boundries and that should tell you one thing, the relationship is failing.

I fsomeone feels content, proud, happy with their partner, they are not going to jepordise that.

Granted everyone has rules within their life, I don't take narcotics, I would not expect anyone to ask me to do anything like that. And nobody would. If it is an exclusive relationship I expect people not to cheat on me, and if the relationship is going well they will respect this.

Here's the reality, women aren't like dogs that you train, or infants that you strap boundries round.

Thier are natural patterns and rules to every relationship, but these should not ever need to be enforced, becuase if they are being broken, then their is something wrong with the relationship.

People breaking relationship rules is an effect, not a cause of a relationship breakdown.


I'm going to toss these two things in, and you can dismiss them as "not real" if you want, but frankly with time you will encounter these situations and it will lead to your enlightenment anyway.

I have met a good few relationships where the power-base was clearly with the female. Non of them had any real problems that the "conventional" relationship would have.

I have met plenty of relationships, where the guy fucked up the relationship; the ugly truth is that love hurts.

Things don't work out as often as most people would like, now you have a choice, you can winging beta's and start throwing blame around, talking about how the other parties aren't fit to run a relationship becuase they are the cause of all your terrible problems.

Or you can man up, and keep going.

Double post for effect!

I have to agree with Fin.

For a while I thought the same as you, reason I'm here was a rough break up because she was cheating. But looking back, the longer the relationship went on the more we saw each other, the more I did for her and so on. Because of that her attraction woulda just plummited as my neediness increased...

Both parties can feck up the relationship, one of my good friends fucked his up by cheating and so on.

I guess in my case I could say it was my fault for changing, which forced her away. Then you could argue she was just a cheat.

Just don't lump all women in the same net. And the past is the past, move on and forget about it. Think in the now.