I've studied a lot of PUA material, & have come across this in passing a couple times, but I think it is a largely ignored tactic to open as most seem to prefer indirect game. This alone if you can pull it off I think has the potential tell you about the aggressiveness to game the target, approachability, as well as give you the upper hand. Plus little chance of bad state killing rejection.

I recently watched an interview with Cajun where he said to NEVER look away if you make eye contact with a girl. Just train yourself never to, because most girls say almost all guys look away. This DHV automatically makes an impression, separates you & says so many things about how you. (Confidence, dominance etc).

This resonated. I thought why not take it a step farther & use the girl’s language of how they look at you when they want you to open. I just tired to initiate as much eye contact & hold it as long as I could comfortably, beyond the point most guys would look away, including myself normally when I was trying to "play it cool".

Smoothest way I found to do this was walking with the girl stationary, that way you incorporate body language & can change course & go directly over with momentum. It can get pretty intense with some of the looks I got back & no doubt it can spark immediate very primal feeling attraction.


My interpretation, of the types of Reponses I got.

#1 Girl doesn't flinch & holds eye contact with you, basically it's on. Collect yourself & go direct. When I did man up & finally did this at that moment, I found 2 types. Extremely confident girls amused & ready to test the shit out of me, & ones with doggy dinner bowl, so in awe they quickly turned submissive & soon couldn’t look at me or if they did collect themselves went straight back doggy dinner bowl.

#2 submissive girls (Seemed to be the majority after I got my “state” going). They quickly look straight down. Of those some would do a double take & glance back up or would glance back up when they thought I had stopped staring.(watch for that). The impression & intent was already made so i kept walking & came back more indirect/situational soon after to give them time to collect themselves & prepare for approach. I found they expected & were actually looking for you to comeback (actually read lips of 1 say to her friends "there's that hot guy"). Pretty easy open from there, few nervous ones though.....Those that didn’t look back up at all I figure have less self esteem, & are generally the types that get real nervous around you. I avoided those at this point as you have to carry the interactions. You can tell IMO just by the EC.

#3 girls that basically roll their eyes or look or turn there head or bodies away to the sides. Got a few of these. Just moved on. As I get more comfortable might try to take on a few of these. I suspect that could be a test as well & if you came in strong could possibly break it. I'm not there yet though.

Everytime I mention this I tend to get crap talked to me so I don't any more but yes it is an awesome way to get things going. Also try making eyecontact from teh opposite side of the bar throwing in a I think you are cute smile then not opening her till later. (again I expect the cult of MM to bitch at me for ignoring the 3 second rule yaddah yaddah but screw it).

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Nah, I tend to do the same.

I've read 10 times more material in the seduction community about not being the guy "scanning" at the bar than suggesting initiating EC, but like anything there's probably a time & place for everything. Just got to calibrate & pick your spots.

Subcommunication is almost all of this game IMO & most that have done a hundred plus approaches get that there is a much bigger conversation going on, under the conversation you are having much of the time. Eye contact & the looks you give & receive being the biggest subcommuication IMO.

You can just about size the person up & pretty much read them & have an entire conversation on your intentions & how open she is to it & the game plan in 3 seconds with your eyes, & body launguage. Pretty crazy once you start seeing it & expanding on it. Been aware of it for a while but seems to be opening up more now.

Also I tried scanning the entire bar as well, meaning EC with dudes as I walked around. I noticed many of them look down in submission as well. Some (other alpha's) looked back like WTF, just gave them a nod of respect & smoothly looked to the left.

Just overall doing this scanning seemed very animalistic connecting to the deeper ways of seduction, dominace etc that you don't get from a book, but that you know people respond to.

This "rule" is just used so you don't have enough time to get inside your own head and talk yourself out of approaching. If you have no problem approaching at any time during the night or being spontaneous, I wouldn't even bother with this "rule".
You just don't want to be like a vulture circling the girls and being creepy about it. There is nothing wrong with doing your own thing and being observant. You're right, there is a time and place for everything and that all comes down to when you are comfortable. If you feel hesitant or awkward, so will she.

I want to try this out for myself. I don't have a problem making/holding eye contact, I am just interested to see what percentage of girls fall into each "category". PUAdave, on an average, which type of girl did you find to be the most prominent?

Not sure how many I field tested this on last week. I just remember the highlights of each group, but overall “Submissive” was what I found mostly. Keep in mind I've read a lot of alpha material & put a lot of work into my body language & that I have been told I have intense EC & a very relaxed demenor by girls. So this may not have been something I could have pulled off a few months ago.

I did go kind of crazy with testing though, to the point I made long eye contact with just about everyone everywhere, even at the grocery store, which BTW was nearly all submissive & IMO felt akward & coming on to strong for there. The street, a little less so but still weird. The bars were a different story, & the attractive girls seemed far more prepared for it & many girls were doing a lot of scanning themselves so it was easy to make EC.

I made eye contact with all kinds of girls though, including those I wasn’t attracted to (“5” to “7”’s) , those were most of the girls in the place & looked straight down or quickly away (submissive) most of the time. Few of those looked kind of stunned too. Although some attractive girls were also in this category.

Good news was the amount of very positive inviting looks were more than the Bitch shield "don't try it" looks, but there were still a few of those.

What I figured out worked best was doing this on the move. If you are standing and staring, it did feel a ton more “creep”er like. Many times when both I & the girl were stationary they wouldn't hold EC either. So walking to the bathroom or the bar was normally what I ended up doing. Moving with purpose, just kind of scanning the territory elimnated lot of the akwardness.

Like I said I think getting body language (confident strut) into it also drew looks & gave me more attraction. Easier to make the EC. Also easy to send messages you like what you see holding EC and rotating your head to hold it as you walk by, & if it goes well you can just move in with momentum. & say hi.

Also found the reverse worked well when you were hanging with friends & the girl is on the move. They seemed to be scanning to see who is looking at her to, & you can ignitate EC easy. Some of those looked away "like you can't have me" although I actually had one girl hold EC while she walked by & roatate her head the same way I was doing. When my value is up I always get a some girls walk by and make EC & smile at me too.

The PUA on the move is the way to try this though. If you walk strong you'll get looks & can ignitate the EC. Hold it, see what you got. Kind of equated it to feeling like some animal walking through my territory accessing it. I think the subcommunications in doing that sparked a lot of dominace & attraction. To me it just felt like how our primal ancestors would have done it.

I think to avoid looking like you're staring at her, maybe don't look away until she does. Just look at her as much as you would look at anyone else.

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Good post Dave,

I agree that people undervalue eye contact. I love the feeling of having a confident woman looking me square in the eyes - I'm sure the feeling must be even more powerful for women when men look at them because confidence is a more valuable male trait than female trait.

A good alternative to the long stare is to triangle, where you look at one eye, then the other, then look at her lips. You sort of go around in a slow circle. I found this makes the stare a bit more seductive.

He he, actually there is a difference between "I like you but I am too afraid to approach kinds of smiles" and "Yeah yeah, I know that you are hot, hold your horses, I will get right on it, just wanna hang with my friends first."

Great post, PUADave. I've had very similar reactions when doing strong eye contact. Definitely a great tool to have in the arsenal.

For those of you guys who can pull it off, here's a great tactic i use a LOT in super loud clubs where nonverals are key:

Any time i'm walking through the club, i walk slow (about half speed) with a semi-smirk on my face as if i just heard a really funny joke. Because I'm moving slow, i notice girls making eye contact with me. When that happens, I look directly at them and slowly smile as I walk by. Maintain eye contact but remember to blink. The closer your get, the bigger your smile. Make sure it's a cocky smile and not a goofy one. A good 70% of the time I don't even have to say anything -- they'll open me.

Oh yeah, and an 8" multi-colored mohawk on your head tends to help, too.

That sounds very important, no clue if I was doing it. Hopefully I was. Good thing to be aware of though in the future & monitor myself a little.
I certainly undervalued it for a long time. Probably more about getting my confidence to where it is now & being able to do it. I still think there is a balance though. You have to look away at times or it's to intense IMO. I've read 70/30 (as far as gazing & looking away) is kind of the sweet spot.
I also try to remember to do the left eye stare, but forget most of the time. Less natural feeling. When I'm going for the kiss I just naturally look at her lips a few times already. Hard to forget that one.

Last 2 times I went out sarging, I kept this whole thread closely in mind and did my best to make serious eye contact with every girl I was even mildly interested in. What I found was that almost always they would avoid my eye contact or look away quickly. I couldn't tell if it was a gesture of subconscious submissiveness, indifference, or purposefully avoiding looking at me for some reason... any thoughts?

Yeah bro, not sure what stage you are at in your development. I've been sarging really hardcore for about 8 or 9 months now. I’m sure I couldn’t have pulled this off even a couple months ago, but I’m a lot more confident & congruent now. Hopefully DJ Fuji will weigh back in. I’m familiar with him through some online video's & his game is far, far more advanced than mine.

As far as what I can tell you it’s certainly something you have to calibrate for & a fine line. I probably came off as creep some even testing this last week because I had some uncomfortable moments. Takes some time to find a sweet spot & be congruent with a confident cool guy.

Also did you try this on the move I think that's important. It didn't come off as akward if I was walking & like if I was just standing around scanning. Many of the chicks would avoid eye contact then kind of like you indicated if I was just scanning, unless I had build value through relaxed body language & was social proffed. Otherwise "creepy man". You need to give them a reason to look IMO & make EC, through walking slow & confidently or by having fun & being relaxed.

I tried it in a couple of different circumstances, I'll outline them briefly.

First was on a massage girl. I think she purposefully avoided eye contact because she was becoming more and more turned on by me and wanted to make sure she didn't lose control of herself. Ok that came off arrogant as hell lol but I get a lot of serious compliments on my appearance here as I'm naturally attractive to the Chinese asthetic despite being highly average to white people.

Second time was at a club; I basically tried to make eye contact with everyone I talked to but when it came to the more attractive girls, the ones I was actively targetting, it seemed to me that they would often turn away from me and look at the dance floor or anything besides my eyes. I didn't look for anyone's eyes as I was walking because I didn't want to bump into anything lol. That sounds a little dangerous in a crowded club to go around trying to make eye contact with some hottie while there's tables full of drinks everywhere. I also went for eye contact a lot on the dance floor, but once again didn't get it very often, and certainly not for more than a second before they looked away.

It's now been two days though, and I'm wondering if something subconscious is colouring my recollection or my perception. Perhaps in reality I got a totally normal amount of eye contact, but I was expecting girls to just melt into my hands and when that didn't happen I blew it out of proportion slightly... not really sure. Definitely more practice and experience is a must though.

ChinaGuy,

When girls avoid eye contact like that, it's not because they're super turned on by you. I don't care how good looking you are. Avoiding eye contact altogether is an indicator of either:

a) Shyness, possibly cultural habits

or

b) Disinterest.

I'm going to bet on B. Submissive eye contact breaks don't look like that. Submissive eye contact breaks are when the girls looks DOWN and then looks back at you. If she DOESN'T look back at you, it's simply disinterest. Shyness is very similar.

The other factor involved here is that girls should be SMILING when you make eye contact (So should you, btw). If they DONT smile and try to break EC, it's them breaking rapport. That's why celebs wear sunglasses at night and in the club. It's them breaking rapport with the entire room becase you cant make eye contact with them.

If you dont make eye contact and smile, it just comes across like you're staring. It's weird and creepy.

And if a girl makes EC with you and smiles at you, walk up to her and go direct. "You can't look at me like that and not say hi." Credit goes to Cajun for that one.

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