First off my name is John and I'm 24. My story goes like this. My older sister has a friend shes been best friend's with since she was in junior high. Her friend has two daughters that are twins. I will call the one I like S.

Two years ago my sister visited from out of state and came down to our house. her best friend B and her two twin daughters S and R came over to visit her. S and R were only 15 back then. Anyways, I kind of flirted with S and she flirted back. I ended with giving her a hug and got her myspace and stuff.

So for the next 2 years we never really talked or saw each other because there was no reason to and she was too young for me. Just a month ago I found out she had just turned 17 and I told her happy birthday and that my sister was coming back to town again and we should hang out. She agreed with me.

So my sister came back to town and we went over to S and R's house. I flirted with S pretty much the whole time. She would follow me to any room I went, she agreed with everything I said, she took a picture of just us two in a shot with heads close together, and gave me some playful touches on the arm and stuff. I ended it with just a hug but I made it a little longer than just a regular one.

The next few days we just kind of regularly talked and then I came out and did some banter with her that I just learned about over a text.

Me: Hey! Stop starring at my ass!
her: lol what?
her: I'll stop starring at yours if you stop starring at mine :-p
me: I like that :-p
me: We should hang out this week
her: Sure, just tell me when and where.

We ended up going to see a movie and I drove us and her twin sister there. There was a lot of laughing and flirting on the way to the theater. Once we got there I sat in between them two and just kind of leaned back and had open arms and legs trying to show I was comfortable but both of them had closed arms and legs. So we watched the movie and every now and then I would tap her on the arm and lean in to tell her something while looking into her eyes and she would lean in and talk to me while keeping eye contact. The movie ended and we went back to their house.

Of course their parents were both home so I couldn't do anything really. I asked her if she wanted to be my massage therapist because my neck was sore and asked her if she had any appointments open. She kind of giggled and said sure. She pulled out a chair and had me sit on it and gave me a shoulder and neck massage right in front of her parents which made me feel awkward but oh well I went with it. After the massage we both sat down at the computer and she showed me a bunch of pictures of her friends and told me who they all were and she was like seeking my approval of her friends. She had to go to sleep so we hugged and she went off to bed.

The next few days we kind of talked a little bit over text and myspace playfully like usual. And I told her we should hang out again at the end of the week. We made plans for hanging out on the 4th of July.

So it was the 4th of July and I came over. Her mom and dad were both there of course... I sat next to her and I got my ipod and some headphones and gave her one headphone to listen to while I listened to the other. I played some Hoobastank songs kind of how I felt about her and we just did that for 15-20 minutes and it just felt like a good connection as her body language was more open and she was kind of leaning towards me. 7pm came around and we had to go pick up her sister so all of us(including her parents) jumped in their van and I sat with her in the very back. We listened to more music with each other and talked about music and flirted a bit. I then started telling her how I learned some massage stuff from a "girl" friend and I told her to give me her hand. I lightly rubbed my thumb between the joints of her knuckles up to her wrist and then massaged her fingers. After that she seemed really hyper and flirty.

So we picked up her sister and got to a lake to watch fireworks. Got out and she made me some necklace out of glow sticks so I put it on. We walked down to the shore came back up. Found some poppers and we started throwing them at each other just laughing and having a good time. Then I mentioned to her about the massage I was suppose to give her(told her that I was going to through a text before and she was cool with it then). After I told her that she kind of walked off into the van and started talking to her mom. She stayed in the van until the fireworks started. We all sat and watched them and she had a serious worried look on her face and she didnt really talk to me much. After the show was over we got back into the van and left. She talked to her ex boyfriend flirting with him for a while. She finally got off the phone.. We got back to their place and she was kind of distant with me. I found a video I wanted to show her on the computer and called her over to watch it so she came over and watched and we were both laughing and amazed by the video and she kneeled down next to me and put her arm on my chair. Then I started doing some dance moves and I was teaching her how to do them. We were laughing and having a good time. later on I had to go so I gave her a longer hug than usual and left.

This is where the bad parts start to come in... hours later that night I sent her a text message saying "Wow... I so wanted to kiss you but couldnt because all the people around! Your eyes are hypnotic and I like you not just because im a guy but I like your personality too" She never replied back to me the next day so I sent her an other message the next night saying "About the stuff I said last night, i just want you to know I would never try to do anything with you unless you wanted me to and I just want to get to know you better. How do you feel about that? She sent me a text later that said "I don't mind getting to know you better" I was like "Thats good to hear " hours later I sent her an other text saying we should hang out again sometime this week and cruise around and just listen to some music. no response from her. Then I sent her a text that just said "Dork" just trying to tease her. No response... So later on that night I saw her on myspace im and I sent her a message saying "Whats up Dork!" never got a response and she eventually logged off.

That all leads up to now. I just want to point out some stuff about this girl. She is only 17 and is very flirty naturally, she has quite a few ex bfs but she is friends with them now which I think is cool, she currently has a boyfriend but she told me hes always busy doing something like she sounded disappointed with him.

So all your PUA masters out there can you please assess the situation and kind of tell me what might be going on as best as you can. I would really appreciate it. I really like this girl mentally and physically and want things to work between us. give me all you got! Thank you very much, I appreciate it!

Here's where I think it fucked up...
Don't tell, her FUCKING do it. I reckon she had a convo with her mom about that, and her mom is thinking you just wanna FUCK her. This guy is too old etc. That's when doubts creep into her little mind.
This is the nail in the coffin. Telegraphing your sexual interest to her in a text msg. And then trying to justify it with a 'I like your personality too.' She's gonna see through that a mile of.

One thing I've learned is women LIKE honesty. If you tell her you want to kiss her don't fucking justify it with a lie. She'll think you're trying to be sneaky.

YOU MISSED YOUR CHANCE TO KISS her and hence seal the deal. When you were on your own on the beach what should you have done? If you kissed her it wouldn't have mattered what her mom said. She would have been invested.


-Never telegraph your sexual interest to her before she does.
-Never say you wanna kiss her in a text message. A kiss should be a fleeting moment, it sounds premeditated to her now.
-Don't bullshit her with 'I like your personality crap.' She's heard that shit time and time before and can see right through it. Be bold, an unapologetic for your sexual frame. If she's uncomfortable apologise for HER reaction not for your actions.

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Wow that was Harsh! but thats what I have to hear to know what to do so thanks! I didn't lie about the personality part though I really do like her sense of humor, the way she is really flirty and cute and very talkative. Maybe I should of mentioned those aspects instead of just saying "personality."

I really appreciate your advice, but you didn't mention anything about how I could attempt to correct the situation and still have a chance with her. I know a lot of you are probably thinking that it's already ruined and there might not be a chance and how I should just move the fuck on, but if there is something i can do I would like to try. I'm not one for giving up anyways and I like challenges so I say bring it on!

Sounds to me like she was kind of into you or at least enjoyed your company, but you may have pushed it with the whole "Wow... I so wanted to kiss you but couldnt because all the people around! Your eyes are hypnotic and I like you not just because im a guy but I like your personality too" text. There was a chance she just saw you as a good friend and that weirded her out a bit... or she was started to get into you and you just rushed into it head first. Either way, you said she has a bf right now, and disappointed with him or not, she probably doesn't want any complications right now.

I would say, even though you don't want to, just drop her for now. She is ignoring you for a reason... like I said, you may have jumped too far too soon and it weirded her out. Leave her be for a period of time and then if the situation is right, maybe try talking to her again... like months later. Have you considered gaming other girls when she is around at like a party or something and using them as social proof or pivots? Just a suggestion, but like I said, let time pass and drop her as of right now.

ok so you know what I just told her exactly this

I figured I should at least get some closure so I know whats going on so I can at least find out what happened and what I did wrong and still be cool with her and if I'm lucky enough she'll still be interested.

Wow, dude wow so many things to say... you had a chance but definitely ruined it by over thinking. It was over before it even started. I feel bad but after this you'll be all the wiser. When you mess around with a 17 year old you're playing with fire - especially when you get attached. The second you heard her mention an ex boyfriend you should have fell off the earth man. Or at the least if you felt like you COULD use it to your advantage you should have been everything he's not EG. no drama, no clinging, everything a girl loves when they first meet someone. It's almost always over if there's ex talk going on (THEY JUST CAN'T LET GO - YOU CAN'T WIN). After a positive evening at your computer you shouldn't have sent a text about her beautiful eyes - this is stuff women do. It does nothing unless her interest in you is crazy high and by then it doesn't even matter what you say. It just makes things worse when you get no response and then continue to reach out (she got the first text, I promise). What you didn't know is the whole evening you wondered why she wasn't replying was because she was with her ex, talking to her ex, or thinking about her ex, and not thinking about you or your 'not sure how to respond' texts.

I would have payed for this knowledge when I was 18 but I wouldn't have believed anyone if they told me anyway. Dude you're gonna be a machine with the ladies, move on and keep learning.

ok so I got a couple responses from her.

Her: lol I wasn't upset I was just tired :-p dont worry I let ppl no when im upset.

her: and I haven't been replying much because technically I still don't have texting.

I believe her on the part of texting because her parents do take away her phone when she texts too much they even told me so.

ya I now learned for sure I shouldn't have said anything about wanting to kiss her or about her eyes and then keep reaching out afterward. She mentioned her current boyfriend which she has and how he moves around too much and never has time to spend with her. But based on her responses I put above does that mean she might still be interested or is she just trying to be nice?

I think you should be less worried about what she's thinking than what you're thinking. But yes, I think she's making excuses and lying to you. I think you should stay away from this girl because she's nothing but problems - but I know you won't. Like I said, be less available - cat string theory, don't talk about her ex *EVER*, only be the fun guy who doesn't talk about anything serious. Don't appear insecure, don't ask what she's thinking or that she didn't say hey when you saw her, or reply to your text - you don't care, ever. You never reach out first, you always leave her hanging. She doesn't know what you're up to, you don't talk to your friends or her friends about her, mystery and value is the only advantage 'the other guy' has against a boyfriend or ex.

I think you want her so bad you're going to over think and make a mistake. What you really need to realize is when you get involved with a girl who's already in a relationship, or not finished with, *unless she obviously isn't happy* you are only a rebound. Good luck, though.

ok good stuff guys, I'm learning a lot! We had an other exchange of messages.

me: lol so what parts was I right about?

her: lol umm the part about those messages takin me off guard but it was just unexpected that's all.

I completely missed the part about gaming other girls with her around. She has a twin sister that I also game on but that's not the same thing probably. I don't game on her anywhere as much though.

that was a perfect response. i dig your style with it man. you just have to not give a fuck and magically, things will fall in to place, because for some reason, thats how life works. doing this will prevent you from getting too caught up in her as well as so involved that you get one-itis. keep your options open and plant as many seeds as possible to achieve it

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When Life Gives You Lemons, You Paint That Shit Gold

Well this can be cheeky but why not game her as much? If you can get a good rep with her sister, she may try to compete with her for your attention. Pay more attention to her sister and the sister will see how cool of a guy you are, how funny and adventurous you are, etc. Word will get back to the girl you are after. She'll wonder why you aren't paying as much attention to her any more, which may prompt her to contact you. Because they are sisters it can create a jealous factor.

Remember, nothing is full proof, and in no way am I saying "OMG DO THIS AND IT WILL WORK." it was just a thought I figured I would throw out there. I would just go and game other girls and if the sister is there, game her too. Don't go out of your way and make a hassle out of it.
Looking through this thread, most of this ^ is pretty decent advice. Give that a look over again and maybe some things will click for you. Best of luck.

You pretty much told her you can control me I'm a wuss.
And she's only 17 don't catch a case....

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Good advice from everyone! Unlike a lot of PUAs you guys aren't the dumb ass ones that tell you to do all the stupid shit that scares girls away like I've seen before. I'm already taking some action based on what you've guys have said by not clinging to her as much, talking to her sister more, and also talking to an other girl K that I'm suppose to hang out with next week.