Forgive me for asking, but I fail to see the difference between my post "going off on a tangent" and the one two posts above it recommending seeing a psychic, zen buddhism, and hypnotherapy. If you could explain when it is appropriate to go off on a tangent and when it isn't, that would be greatly appreciated.

~Antithesis

I found out about the game a year and a half ago and have made sporadic attempts to work the principles into my day. Although I've definitely increased my ability to create attraction in women, my half-assed approach to learning and applying this stuff has caused serious problems with closing, mainly due to inner game issues, so I'm starting from scratch.

Although I've approached many women, sometimes cold, over the past year or so, I still found the mission difficult. Normally I would only approach when the situation demands it (ie basically the girl approaches me, eg by sitting down next to me in a cafe) or if she gives me very strong IOI's over a protracted period of time.

I travelled to a city I don't normally frequent, and that seemed to help, also the fact that it is a tourist trap so most people are fairly upbeat.
I mention this because I've heard that approaching on your own turf makes AA less severe-definitely not true in my case.

There were at least as many women I didn't approach for no good reason, as I did. The cute girl in the seat opposite on the train giving me multiple IOI's, the girl removing some crap from her storefront who would have made an easy hit-and-run (if neccessary), the chick with the wonder woman golden leggings that were begging to be commented on.

It took me well until midday to make approaches. Strangely, I came across a guy in Starbucks reading "The Game", who, judging from his peacocky-type stetson, wasn't just looking through it out of intellectual interest. I noticed a two-set with one HB8 sat down right next to him, who he looked at briefly, then left without talking to. Obviously I'm not the only guy having trouble with AA.

The girls I did eventually approach yielded some surprising results:

1) Hot babe carrying a broomstick talking to friend while crossing the road. TF - "OK why the broomstick?" HB "Helps me get about", big teeth smile, TF-"Weird girl" her and friend giggle, I cross road.

2&3) For some reason someone stuck two giant sculptures of a cow and a bunny in the centre of town next to a square of benches constantly being filled with hot tourist babes. This provides me with two easy approaches "Which do you prefer? Bunny or Bull?" Both said bunny. "Yeah I'm a bunny guy myself".

4) Best one. Lots of tiny japanese girls appear with stupid hats. I simply grab one girl's hat impulsively. This is technically assault, but she turns around smiles and says hello in knee-weakening accent. Mutter "luv your hat" and wander off. Probably should have followed this one up but that wasn't the plan and wasn't in my programming right then.

5) Girl stacking books in library. Smiles as I walk past. I come back five minutes later and say "They don't make you do that all day do they?". Get a nothing response. I've noticed openers based on drudgery really stink, can't imagine why...

6) Irish girl fumbling with map in the street. TF-"Are you lost love?" I give her directions to her hotel, ask her where she's from, "Dublin" the answer. "Cead mile failte" I say in response (Gaelic for a hundred thousand welcomes). She laughs, but in a sort of get-me-away-from-the-serial-killer type way. Possibly this makes Irish chicks think of boring secondary school gaelic lessons or something, it never seems to get a good reaction, or maybe I'm just being paranoid.

Probably should have pursued this one also as she clearly needed someone to show her around, but like I said, it wasn't in the plan.

Additionally I made four or five crappy non-approaches along the lines of "Where is this train going?" which yielded only functional responses. I hesistate to include these as legitimate approaches since it is the sort of thing I would ask random girls even when I was AFC, and goes nowhere. One such inquiry did get me some nice IOI's though and allowed me to employ some quick kino on a hot hippy chick.

I also spent far too long in Starbucks exchanging eye contact with a HB7. Although this was a definite lead judging by her obvious interest the seating arrangements made it impossible to approach. I kept hoping the bloke sitting opposite her would f*** off but he didn't.

I'm not sure whether to count today as a success or a failure. On balance a success because I definitely feel my game came on today. My body language and voice were a long way off perfect when approaching, but significantly better than they used to be. At no time did I get a really bad response, which may be helpful to other newbies reading this.

However, I certainly didn't say hi to everyone I met, and I'm not even close to being able to do that as yet (Is this even possible. Can an expert PUA really just approach any women, at any time, however much her defenses are up?). I guess I have to keep doing this, hope this helps someone anyway...

I can understand that there are some people who think that saying "Hi" to a complete stranger is a big thing. I used to be one of them. I couldn't even bring myself to say that one syllable word to a stranger. I was too scared to get scowled at.

For people that have difficulty treading just a little bit out of their comfort zone (saying "Hi" is really a tiny bit in fact), I have an alternative which can make you feel more comfortable. When you're in your car and you have to stop for a red light, just look at the person in the car next to you. Make sure you always smile (not a weird big grin but a normal friendly smile). Nothing can happen to you; you're in your car. Hold eye contact for a few seconds at first, when you start feeling more comfortable you can hold eye contact for as long as you want (make sure it doesn't get inappropriate though, one time some guy thought I wanted to drag race). It may sound stupid but it feels pretty good after having done it. It's just a really small step you take out of your comfort zone.

I did this every times I was on the road (and still do at times) and then went to the local mall and said "Hi" to a lot of people. It felt really good. You will find that after having done this successfully a couple of times, that there is really nothing to it. That very day I started talking to a girl who worked at a clothing store. It was my very first approach and it felt awesome.

As soon as I got off work today, I decided to jump on the forum and see if there were any interesting tips for me to start out with. Lo and behold, this was the first topic I selected to read. I decided to give it a try since I had nothing else to do today and I got ready to hit the mall. As I walked in, I was very excited because I was trying something new. I know also that this excitement could be good or bad. As I started my first lap around the nearly deserted mall, I noticed two 19-20yo HB7's making out on a bench. I decided to keep walking since they were obviously busy. I walked past a few other HB7-8's and a few more mature women and simply smiled and said "Hey." The results astounded me. I got major IOI's from nearly all of the HB's and this just boosted my confidence even more.

I then decided to hit some shops and see if there was anything worth looking at when I stumbled across an HB9 working in Aeropostle. I decided to take it a step further with her. I found a shirt that was very peacock, the ones with the sparkly letters and crap, and I brought it over to her. "What do you think about shiny shirts?" She looked at me and said that she usually didn't like them too much, but she thought it would look great on me. I noticed this as a very strong IOI. Within 10 minutes of just fluff, I had her talking about how the shirt would even compliment my eyes. I used Juggler's strategy of making short open ended statements to get her to tell me where she was from, why she moved, and even that she had just gotten back from Disney World. --- Point being, I count this as a success. She didn't give me her name and number so I asked her what her name is and then didnt give her mine. I just told her that I would see her when I came back in for that shiny shirt.

Tried this again on a girl in Pac Sun and she said that she liked shiny shirts on her boyfriend. I had no clue what to say for a BFD, so I just thanked her for the help and walked off.

I realized that I had at least spoken to almost every girl in the mall that I didn't have to chase down so I decided to go to the Commons, an outdoor mall down here. I don't know what happened on the drive over, but I suddenly had no one's attention. I thought that it might be because I was wearing a dark blue shirt outside at night and I wasn't peacocky enough anymore, so I changed.

Still hardly anything... I boiled it down to be that the Commons is a huge tourist area and a lot of people were more focused on their vacation with their families than noticing guys. Not a good night to go there sarging, but I'm definitely gonna try it again this weekend.

I would really appreciate any advice to help me improve it this weekend. Oh, and I found it hard to approach people that didn't make eye contact or that were otherwise occupied. Anything for this?

Well... I didnt try this on every women but at least i tried it on 1.

Here is how it goes. As i was walking in the underpass towards the otherside of the road leading to the park, i saw a lady. she seems to be in her 30's and looks like a typical american/european. I remember seeing this thread and decided to give it a shot. I just smiled at her (without showing teeth) and amazingly she smiled back (I didn't expected it). After this, a few question ran thru my mind and i would need advice from you guys.

1) I am only 17 and by smiling to every1 will i be perceived as a pervert?
2) I live in a Asian country. So i predict that the result would be different on an asian lady. Most likely get ignored. Should i even smile at them?
3) Is it better to smile with or without teeth shown?
4) Other than smiling how do i engage in a conversation?

Your professional help is much needed, thanks in advance

Good stuff. You actually did more than the Newbie Mission's objectives. The point was to just say hi, but you actually engaged in some conversations.

When people don't reciprocate your social engagement, that's an opportunity to exercise some good ol' shameless persistence. YOUR PRESENCE MUST BE KNOWN BECAUSE YOU ARE FUCKING AWESOME. Your "Hi" or "Hey" must be LOUD and proud so that they can't help but to respond back to you.

I've done this mission countless times by running through it with newbies. Sometimes, if someone doesn't make eye contact or say "Hi" back to me, I just keep saying "Hi" and "Hey" over and over again while continuing to turn my body toward them. They start feeling awkward if they don't say "Hi" back.

The point I make here to newbies is that the entire POINT of this mission is to just engage people socially. It doesn't matter what happens in the end; the only thing that matters is that you say hi and engage them.
1. Are you pervert? The number one thing that matters is your genuine intention. If you are not a pervert, you will most likely not be perceived as a pervert. Smiling and socializing with people is not a perverted act in itself.
2. Yes.
3. Whatever feels more genuine at the time you decide to smile.
4. Say words. lol

For all newbs on here that are having trouble with this, stop thinking of it as being hard. In fact tell youself that it's easy and really logically think about why it is hard(you won't find a good reason to not smile and say hi to people). Another logic game i play with my head is the pros VS cons - what good can come VS negative consequences. In this exercise the only logical answer is YES do it: there is effectively 0 negative consequence

My little story in relation to this is as follows. I am currently voluteering at a festival in my community and have been saying hi to every person that even remotely makes eye contact (and I have been actively seeking it). Most people including and especially HBs are very receptive (after all I am a target to HBs just as they are to me). I can be more effective by actually approaching more of these HBs.

There was a rather entertaining HB approach for me yesterday; 2 girls were taking pictures of eachother, I approach with "woah, ladies, no no no your doing it ALL wrong" i told the one that was posing to turn around, then move her hair (she did this without even questioning me lol) after such time I left. my inner man tells me i should have pursued more but i did not making the same judgements I tend to (in this case they looked 18ish and I get to thinking that they'll be boring or immature and decidedly I lose all but physical interest)

A very good exercise!

What I am concerned not so much for learning the responds are usually less bad than initially you are afraid of, but more you learn to be spontaneous whatever the respond will be. That even a negative respond (for example: the look as if you are crazy) will not bother you.

As my own experience women do respond for about 20% with a 'hi' back, 30% just (pleasantly) surprised, 30% unpleasantly surprised (the 'you are crazy look') and 20% doesn't respond at all.

I kind of did my own newbie mission today instead of the recommended one. I will try to do the suggested one another time.
I went to the shopping mall in my local town centre, but I didn't have the courage to say 'hi' to any HBs as this is VERY wierd where I come from, plus I wouldn't have known what to say if they asked me why i said 'hi', or have been able to continue the conversation without them thinking i was creepy

BUT my actions (or what I was able to do) were completely contradictory as instead I went into virtually every shop and made the store-owners think I was as wierd as possible, just to teach me not to give a sh** what people think about me and to overcome AA. So i went into women's clothes stores and asked for advice on women's clothing, pretending to be a cross-dresser; I tried to make a one penny bet in the bookmakers, claiming this was all I had in my account. I went into a camera store and asked if they sold a 'camera eye' that i could use to make a film of my life.

Why did i do this? I guess I was using comedy to hide behind the shameful reality that I need to do 'exercises' to learn social skills. I could imagine I was on some unfunny candid camera programme or face-to-face fonejacker rather than accepting that I am trying to become a cool person. Plus, when I walked away knowing they were laughing at the mentalist who just walked in, I had something to laugh about too.

I have heard of similar techniques being recommended to overcome AA, but I personally think that saying weird things to people is a self-defence mechanism so that when you are rejected, it isn't the real you but a fake persona being rejected
That's why I'll find it harder to start a normal conversation with an HB, where I'm putting my real personality on the line

I'm sorry, but that was completely terrible.

First of all, it doesn't matter where the hell you come from. Being very social and saying "hi" to tons of strangers can be "weird" WHEREVER you come from. It can also be casual if you direct your own frame to make it so, but that's a little more advanced; you don't have to worry yourself with that for now.

Have you EVER said "hi" to a stranger in your entire life? Asking "Why did you say hi?" is the weirdest and most socially awkward thing anyone could ever do. I can't even believe that I just read that. That's seriously fucking unheard of. No one's going to do that. Stop being weird. Just trust me when I say that you will be just fine doing this mission as it was intended to be done.

The entire point of the newbie mission is to say hi to a ton of women. You don't have to continue conversations at this point. Just say hi and keep walking. No conversation to worry about.

NEVER USE THOSE SELF-DEFENSE MECHANISMS. NEVER HIDE BEHIND ANYTHING.
Such masks and self-defense mechanisms only push you further into your comfort zone and make you more of a pussy than you already are. Man the fuck up and put everything you possibly can on the line. That's the ONLY real way to improve.

I accept that doing the mission as said and being yourself is the only way to improve, which is why I will do it. But I think that me being uncomfortable about doing it isn't weird. In the UK, no stranger has EVER said 'hi' to me then walked on. If they did, I would say 'do I know you' or 'why are you saying hi, you don't know me'. Actually I'll rephrase that, the only times people who don't know me have said hi is in a 'taking the piss' tone, not a friendly one

Although I'm generalising, it's true that people are much colder in England than the USA and saying hi to strangers, (unless it's just you and them passing one another in an isolated place) IS weird, especially if you're doing it to every girl you pass in a busy place like a mall.

Bullshit, or as you say in the UK, Bullocks! (I learned that one from V for Vendetta)

I've never been to the UK, but the fact of the matter is that human beings universally respond well to smiles and greetings. Your own negative social conditioning has made you think in weird ways. You think that it's normal to be anti-social for one reason or another.

If it's actually true that the English culture is that socially repressed, then they all just need a fucking wake-up call from YOU. All you have to do is make eye contact, smile, and say hi in order for you to remind them that being social is normal and natural.

Your external environment shouldn't be such a huge factor in your anxieties and desires, anyway. Just do what you really want to do independent of that bitch-ass pussy named "comfort zone" following you around.

The guy does have a point about British culture. The type of responses Americans get with the newbie mission are clearly not the same as you get in the UK-we are very different societies, and Americans are naturally much more extrovert.

One difficulty with the UK is that most people will simply not make eye contact with you and will not acknowledge you at all if you say anything, either ignoring you or simply not understanding why you would say anything to them. I don't know how useful it is to get this reaction, you might as well not bother for all the social skills you develop doing this. Additionally, saying "hi" with a big cheesey grin just feels unnatural.

Since I'm capable of and have made approaches, I don't think this is neccessarily anything to do with AA, or just AA anyway, I just don't want to project myself as a big cheesy wanker.

Maybe more experienced Brits could comment on this.

In my post further up the page I explain how I approached the newbie mission, which was to come out with a situational opener, where the target can't easily just ignore you. You might want to consider this, Karma, if just saying "hi" feels too weird.

I did it a while back in the UK, all the things you think are limiting beliefs. People are friendly and will say hi and chat to you as long as you don't seem weird. Go out now and try it people will not think you are weird I promise

Ok fair enough. I'll give it a try.