It seems that the trend is to reject the Mystery Method nowadays... People from all around start bashing this method saying that you dont like it for various reasons.

Well, My take on this. It does work.

My explanation, it is not what it seems.

The Mystery method is not a method meant to be used as it is used by 99% of all PUAs. The Mystery method is easy to grip, easy to use, there is a fixed amount of rules and techniques that you can use in order to get the girl, easy to remember right?

Ok so these "rules, techniques and routines" feels faked right? They sure do. But Mystery has developed them from scratch and stumbled upon a very important discovery, it is not about negs, stories, time constraints really. They are just means to achieve another thing. They are there to give you success or results while you learn the most important lesson of all. There is no game, its an illusion.

Negs, routines, timeconstraints are all there to fake the presence of a confident man. This is the way a confident man would act... Some girl see through it and some dont. Anyway it will be better than nothing. You will start having more successes than before and believe that the method itself works. After a while you get good at it and start feeling comfortable around women. After that you start feeling confident. Then you dont need so many routines and realize that there is no need to use the routines that you use to fake confidence, you are allready confident.

The other thing that Mystery found was the DHV spikes. They are real. But you dont need to deliver them as mechanically as you are taught. If you need more attraction, flip another switch, if you are doing allright, dont. Easy as that.

Lastly, Mysterys way of not showing interest before she does is a good thing too. It is not a rule, more a guideline. Many naturals spit on this because they think that they dont need it. The problem is that these naturals dont realize that they have already built interest in this girl before opening. Thats right, it is possible to have sufficient IOIs to start off in A3.

50% of the Mystery method is made to teach you one thing. Dont be needy. This is soo difficult for most men to grasp, this is so difficult to calibrate, being not needy but still not just standing in a corner.

The M3 structure is also a way to teach newbies to not seem needy. The negs too. This all boils down to one thing, faking confidence.

It is fake it until you make it! Sarge using the M3 model and you will become more confident.

The M3 model is not really a gameplan, it is a teaching plan. The further you progress the more parts you can skip. In the end, you dont really need any of it, but then you have become good enough to go natural.

It is one thing to learn the Mystery method, most guys can do that.
It is another thing to master the Mystery method, some guys do that.

It is a completely different thing to really understand the Mystery method, see through it... Not many people do that.


Bottom line. The Mystery method works, but see it as it is meant to be seen, a way to learn.

Ezo

These are all good points and i guess i agree. What is kind of tiring is the fact of constantly hearing about how great mystery and style are but not seeing really any good examples of this. I mean if your gonna claim to be the absolute best it would be nice to see some proof of this. Maybe i just havnt come across anything good but MM has not impressed me.

I agree with lots of this, especially the fact that it MM is one of the most wrongly used method. I went through a stage of being like MM is bullshit its robotic but thats the people not the method.
I also agree about it being an illusion looking back now I barely understood why I was doing things, then I started to understand them and move away from them. Now I feel like I have another level of understanding of MM I know why the routines etc work but can now see why it works so well as a template for learning.

You begin to internalize (and in most cases begin to use subconsciously) the core teachings and aspects. Such as not being needy, or value seeking I doubt any guy here would have to think twice about a response to a girl saying something like "buy me a drink" or "that guy is hot". Whilst all our responses would be different (we are different people after all) we would understand what was going on and move past it in a good way.

So yar, to sum up MM is really the only way to go for beginners as advice to be natural like "just be cool" is kinda hard for someone that can't talk to women and has no social circle.

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Exactly!!!!

So many people become amazed by their own greatness and forget how it was to be new! People give advice from their own point of view! Just man up is an easy thing to say for someone who has no problems with it. The tricky part is to tell them how. This is where the MM comes in. I believe that the best way to use MM is to start with it, learn it, love it, understand is and abandon it...

In that order.

Ezo

in the wise words of 870: "everything works and nothing works"

very good post!

My only problem with the M3 model and Neil Strauss' material is that newbies follow it like its infallible. I accidentally grabbed my old copy of "The Game" last week looking for my bible, that was a deliberate choice to make the material seem more important than it is. People that read this material get the impression that it is the only pua material worth using. It isn't until they get on these forums that they realize that there is other better material out there. And the only reason they flock to these forums is because it seems so cool in the book.

So Kalel...

That means that the book serves its purpose. It gets people to start searching for more information. " I can only show you the door, you are the one who has to walk through it "

Unfortunately, not everyone builds natural confidence through this model

It eats them up, and they come out social retards lol.

It's all a person by person case.

And for dudes like Erik, it totally works great.


Another good thing about MM is, it gives you an outline of how shit kind of works,
for the most part at least. Yeah, there are exceptions, and different ways of seduction and procedures, but ultimately, it really does help guys have a destination (like f-closing) in mind, and help work towards that goal.

The holes and fillers in your outer game and inner game can be filled by being in-field a lot, as long as you have an open mind.

Other than that, if it works for you, cool. I think the M3 model is a bit outdated though...

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awesome point, im learning it right now, got half way through the book so far

Still doesn't change the fact that the MM presupposes that you start out with a lower value than your target, thus further instilling that limiting belief in anyone trying to use it.

I agree with pretty much all that has been said here. M3 is a great starter method to give newbies belief in the material & to get them approaching. Lot of built in training wheels & one that if you do it right will keep you from getting blown out to bad, & allow you time to build confidence & inner game.

It will give you fake confidence in the material & the ability of it to work & that belief like you said will work you do display some confidence in the material at least. After a while when you inner game is build you see you don't really need any of it & it becomes irrelavent. Probably is even detrimental because a lot of the routines come off as try hard & chicks sniff it out, & it's a lot more smooth just to vibe on the fly.

Watching the recent MM Seminar: Revelations. Lovedrop even said once you got the inner game & body language the rest of the game was really irrelavent so I doubt he does any 80's dog opionon openers garbage, but he did say that still used the qualification, time constraints etc. That's kind of where I am. I use it as a vague outline but long gone are the scripts & opinion openers.

As a newbie though, it's hard to get them to believe in themselves or have that confidence you need just to walk up direct when they are scared shitless, & most aren't at the point they can find situational things to open with that don't sound to generic. Easier just to learn an opinion opener. systems keeps evolving but I still think this is a good starter point.

I don't really agree. Having watched a lot of MM seminars while they don't directly say "don't put a women on a pedestal" like RSD or teach you "prizing" , they do in a round about way good for beginers by teaching them not to be needy, unreactive, have them qualify 1st after IOI's & attraction is built etc. They also go in depth about how things are believed to be evolutionary hardwired, & just basically the reality of how social interactions work & why they are that way. They give you the tools to interact as equals or bring her to your level with negs & non-needyness.

Granted after a while you get a little success those belief systems, like

"im the prize"
"if she doesn't want to talk to me that's weird because Im awesome"
"i'm giving them a chance to speak with me"
"im the kind of man that goes after what he wants & expect to get it"

etc....

become very, very helpful & do help fuel greater success or at least it has mine, as I almost border on friendly arrogance at this point. To teach a newbie to basicly believe "they are the coolest guy in the joint, that chicks should want to be with is a streach though.

I gotta agree with chief, a lot of people have asked me what I use for DHVs and I don't again this will sound arrogant but I am high value and women tend to be of equal or lower value than me (crap jobs, barely literate, no ambitions and no achievements). Yes I realize there are several girls that don't fit into this but on the whole I would say I am high value and so don't need DHVs.

And yet MM teaches that you are of lower value, maybe not putting the girl on a pedestal but it overlooks much of the non-verbal side of value and assumes you will appear to have lower value on a cold approach (which demonstrates confidence etc). I may dig out the MM see-saw diagrams. But definite progress has been made in understanding value in greater depth, Mehow is great for it.

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1. MM is about acting like you are non needy not being no needy.

2. "Bring her to your level" that's presisely what chief was talking about.

3. "A chance to speak with me" supresssing desire and interest another trait and down-side to MM.